Sundry UK/European issues now that we've left the EU

First.Aspect

Stevo_666 said:

First.Aspect said:

Stevo_666 said:

First.Aspect said:

Stevo_666 said:

First.Aspect said:

What if we just joined he EU? Dispense with all the bilateral agreements, achieve the same thing. It's obvious now I think about it.

There may be a few aspects to that which might not be overly popular with the electorate - free movement of people and adoption of the Euro, for example. I'm assuming of course that there would need to be a referendum and its a bit difficult to see where that will come from given neither major party have said they are looking to rejoin.

Yet.

What sort of timescales do you have in mind?

About a decade, I reckon.

I see you're an optimist at heart.

Perhaps. At the very least the debate hasn't gone away. The idiocy of the hard Brexit mob is getting more and more exposed now. So some soft Breshiteers will make it less bad, before someone figures out that it could be EVEN LESS bad by being part of the largest trade bloc on the planet. Duh.

Stevo_666

First.Aspect said:

Stevo_666 said:

First.Aspect said:

Stevo_666 said:

First.Aspect said:

Stevo_666 said:

First.Aspect said:

What if we just joined he EU? Dispense with all the bilateral agreements, achieve the same thing. It's obvious now I think about it.

There may be a few aspects to that which might not be overly popular with the electorate - free movement of people and adoption of the Euro, for example. I'm assuming of course that there would need to be a referendum and its a bit difficult to see where that will come from given neither major party have said they are looking to rejoin.

Yet.

What sort of timescales do you have in mind?

About a decade, I reckon.

I see you're an optimist at heart.

Perhaps. At the very least the debate hasn't gone away. The idiocy of the hard Brexit mob is getting more and more exposed now. So some soft Breshiteers will make it less bad, before someone figures out that it could be EVEN LESS bad by being part of the largest trade bloc on the planet. Duh.

As mentioned above, it's probably more a case of what comes with membership of that trading bloc (e.g. free movement of people, adopting the Euro as a currency) that will prevent us from going back. I've said for a long time that if the EU had never been more than a trading bloc we would never have left. It was the scope creep which caused the problems.

Jezyboy

Stevo_666 said:

Jezyboy said:

Stevo_666 said:

First.Aspect said:

What if we just joined he EU? Dispense with all the bilateral agreements, achieve the same thing. It's obvious now I think about it.

There may be a few aspects to that which might not be overly popular with the electorate - free movement of people and adoption of the Euro, for example. I'm assuming of course that there would need to be a referendum and its a bit difficult to see where that will come from given neither major party have said they are looking to rejoin.

No main party was looking to leave before the last referendum

True. And?

So there's your precedent for a referendum when all the main page want to continue the status quo.

For what it's worth, maybe moving towards a softer agreement would be a savvy move.

It think it would put Starmer in a very sticky situation, and I think Sunak's poll numbers can't really sink any lower (people like you would still think he was the best option even if he went full rejoin).

briantrumpet

Jezyboy said:

Stevo_666 said:

Jezyboy said:

Stevo_666 said:

First.Aspect said:

What if we just joined he EU? Dispense with all the bilateral agreements, achieve the same thing. It's obvious now I think about it.

There may be a few aspects to that which might not be overly popular with the electorate - free movement of people and adoption of the Euro, for example. I'm assuming of course that there would need to be a referendum and its a bit difficult to see where that will come from given neither major party have said they are looking to rejoin.

No main party was looking to leave before the last referendum

True. And?

So there's your precedent for a referendum when all the main page want to continue the status quo.

For what it's worth, maybe moving towards a softer agreement would be a savvy move.

It think it would put Starmer in a very sticky situation, and I think Sunak's poll numbers can't really sink any lower (people like you would still think he was the best option even if he went full rejoin).

Forward thinking to get a primary school up and running ready for the change in political direction:

Stevo_666

Jezyboy said:

Stevo_666 said:

Jezyboy said:

Stevo_666 said:

First.Aspect said:

What if we just joined he EU? Dispense with all the bilateral agreements, achieve the same thing. It's obvious now I think about it.

There may be a few aspects to that which might not be overly popular with the electorate - free movement of people and adoption of the Euro, for example. I'm assuming of course that there would need to be a referendum and its a bit difficult to see where that will come from given neither major party have said they are looking to rejoin.

No main party was looking to leave before the last referendum

True. And?

So there's your precedent for a referendum when all the main page want to continue the status quo.

For what it's worth, maybe moving towards a softer agreement would be a savvy move.

It think it would put Starmer in a very sticky situation, and I think Sunak's poll numbers can't really sink any lower (people like you would still think he was the best option even if he went full rejoin).

But now we have left, both main parties have said thay do not intend to rejoin.

Jezyboy

Stevo_666 said:

Jezyboy said:

Stevo_666 said:

Jezyboy said:

Stevo_666 said:

First.Aspect said:

What if we just joined he EU? Dispense with all the bilateral agreements, achieve the same thing. It's obvious now I think about it.

There may be a few aspects to that which might not be overly popular with the electorate - free movement of people and adoption of the Euro, for example. I'm assuming of course that there would need to be a referendum and its a bit difficult to see where that will come from given neither major party have said they are looking to rejoin.

No main party was looking to leave before the last referendum

True. And?

So there's your precedent for a referendum when all the main page want to continue the status quo.

For what it's worth, maybe moving towards a softer agreement would be a savvy move.

It think it would put Starmer in a very sticky situation, and I think Sunak's poll numbers can't really sink any lower (people like you would still think he was the best option even if he went full rejoin).

But now we have left, both main parties have said thay do not intend to rejoin.

And when we were members both main parties had said they didn't want to leave.

briantrumpet

Jezyboy said:

Stevo_666 said:

Jezyboy said:

Stevo_666 said:

Jezyboy said:

Stevo_666 said:

First.Aspect said:

What if we just joined he EU? Dispense with all the bilateral agreements, achieve the same thing. It's obvious now I think about it.

There may be a few aspects to that which might not be overly popular with the electorate - free movement of people and adoption of the Euro, for example. I'm assuming of course that there would need to be a referendum and its a bit difficult to see where that will come from given neither major party have said they are looking to rejoin.

No main party was looking to leave before the last referendum

True. And?

So there's your precedent for a referendum when all the main page want to continue the status quo.

For what it's worth, maybe moving towards a softer agreement would be a savvy move.

It think it would put Starmer in a very sticky situation, and I think Sunak's poll numbers can't really sink any lower (people like you would still think he was the best option even if he went full rejoin).

But now we have left, both main parties have said thay do not intend to rejoin.

And when we were members both main parties had said they didn't want to leave.

What, do you mean politicians don't always tell the truth about what they might do?

https://twitter.com/adambienkov/status/1016703032460021760

Stevo_666

Jezyboy said:

Stevo_666 said:

Jezyboy said:

Stevo_666 said:

Jezyboy said:

Stevo_666 said:

First.Aspect said:

What if we just joined he EU? Dispense with all the bilateral agreements, achieve the same thing. It's obvious now I think about it.

There may be a few aspects to that which might not be overly popular with the electorate - free movement of people and adoption of the Euro, for example. I'm assuming of course that there would need to be a referendum and its a bit difficult to see where that will come from given neither major party have said they are looking to rejoin.

No main party was looking to leave before the last referendum

True. And?

So there's your precedent for a referendum when all the main page want to continue the status quo.

For what it's worth, maybe moving towards a softer agreement would be a savvy move.

It think it would put Starmer in a very sticky situation, and I think Sunak's poll numbers can't really sink any lower (people like you would still think he was the best option even if he went full rejoin).

But now we have left, both main parties have said thay do not intend to rejoin.

And when we were members both main parties had said they didn't want to leave.

True, but there was a referendum where the electorate voted to leave. That result was respected as it should have been.

tailwindhome

kingstongraham

This is the mastodon to the other thread's twitter.

Stevo_666

Just giving this thread a bump in anticipation of the vote on the Windsor Framework

rjsterry

Stevo_666 said:

First.Aspect said:

Stevo_666 said:

First.Aspect said:

Stevo_666 said:

First.Aspect said:

Stevo_666 said:

First.Aspect said:

What if we just joined he EU? Dispense with all the bilateral agreements, achieve the same thing. It's obvious now I think about it.

There may be a few aspects to that which might not be overly popular with the electorate - free movement of people and adoption of the Euro, for example. I'm assuming of course that there would need to be a referendum and its a bit difficult to see where that will come from given neither major party have said they are looking to rejoin.

Yet.

What sort of timescales do you have in mind?

About a decade, I reckon.

I see you're an optimist at heart.

Perhaps. At the very least the debate hasn't gone away. The idiocy of the hard Brexit mob is getting more and more exposed now. So some soft Breshiteers will make it less bad, before someone figures out that it could be EVEN LESS bad by being part of the largest trade bloc on the planet. Duh.

As mentioned above, it's probably more a case of what comes with membership of that trading bloc (e.g. free movement of people, adopting the Euro as a currency) that will prevent us from going back. I've said for a long time that if the EU had never been more than a trading bloc we would never have left. It was the scope creep which caused the problems.

We have higher net immigration now that we've left. Latest attitude surveys suggest that aside from the tiny minority of wannabe brownshirts, the public aren't that bothered by immigration.

laurentian

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

First.Aspect said:

Stevo_666 said:

First.Aspect said:

Stevo_666 said:

First.Aspect said:

Stevo_666 said:

First.Aspect said:

What if we just joined he EU? Dispense with all the bilateral agreements, achieve the same thing. It's obvious now I think about it.

There may be a few aspects to that which might not be overly popular with the electorate - free movement of people and adoption of the Euro, for example. I'm assuming of course that there would need to be a referendum and its a bit difficult to see where that will come from given neither major party have said they are looking to rejoin.

Yet.

What sort of timescales do you have in mind?

About a decade, I reckon.

I see you're an optimist at heart.

Perhaps. At the very least the debate hasn't gone away. The idiocy of the hard Brexit mob is getting more and more exposed now. So some soft Breshiteers will make it less bad, before someone figures out that it could be EVEN LESS bad by being part of the largest trade bloc on the planet. Duh.

As mentioned above, it's probably more a case of what comes with membership of that trading bloc (e.g. free movement of people, adopting the Euro as a currency) that will prevent us from going back. I've said for a long time that if the EU had never been more than a trading bloc we would never have left. It was the scope creep which caused the problems.

We have higher net immigration now that we've left. Latest attitude surveys suggest that aside from the tiny minority of wannabe brownshirts, the public aren't that bothered by immigration.

. . . and never were . . .

Stevo_666

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

First.Aspect said:

Stevo_666 said:

First.Aspect said:

Stevo_666 said:

First.Aspect said:

Stevo_666 said:

First.Aspect said:

What if we just joined he EU? Dispense with all the bilateral agreements, achieve the same thing. It's obvious now I think about it.

There may be a few aspects to that which might not be overly popular with the electorate - free movement of people and adoption of the Euro, for example. I'm assuming of course that there would need to be a referendum and its a bit difficult to see where that will come from given neither major party have said they are looking to rejoin.

Yet.

What sort of timescales do you have in mind?

About a decade, I reckon.

I see you're an optimist at heart.

Perhaps. At the very least the debate hasn't gone away. The idiocy of the hard Brexit mob is getting more and more exposed now. So some soft Breshiteers will make it less bad, before someone figures out that it could be EVEN LESS bad by being part of the largest trade bloc on the planet. Duh.

As mentioned above, it's probably more a case of what comes with membership of that trading bloc (e.g. free movement of people, adopting the Euro as a currency) that will prevent us from going back. I've said for a long time that if the EU had never been more than a trading bloc we would never have left. It was the scope creep which caused the problems.

We have higher net immigration now that we've left. Latest attitude surveys suggest that aside from the tiny minority of wannabe brownshirts, the public aren't that bothered by immigration.

Adopting the Euro is more likely to be a sticking point. But this isn't really one on the on-going issues we have with the EU now that we've left, is it

rjsterry

Definitely on my 'cross that bridge when we get to it' list. At the moment I agree it's not an issue. I can foresee a scenario where circumstances have changed and it will be an easier sell for both parties - Russia is doing it's best to encourage further accessions - but who knows?

Stevo_666

rjsterry said:

Definitely on my 'cross that bridge if we get to it' list. At the moment I agree it's not an issue. I can foresee a scenario where circumstances have changed and it will be an easier sell for both parties - Russia is doing it's best to encourage further accessions - but who knows?

FTFY.

rjsterry

Genuinely can't spot what you've fixed, so🤷🏻‍♂️

Stevo_666

rjsterry said:

Genuinely can't spot what you've fixed, so🤷🏻‍♂️

Put it in bold for you.

kingstongraham

I've started to think we'll rejoin the single market.

briantrumpet

kingstongraham said:

I've started to think we'll rejoin the single market.

The next test will be the bill to rescind hundreds of EU-originated laws. If Sunak torpedoes that, in light of his now-documented enthusiasm for the benefits of being able to trade freely with the EU, then who knows?

morstar

briantrumpet said:

kingstongraham said:

I've started to think we'll rejoin the single market.

The next test will be the bill to rescind hundreds of EU-originated laws. If Sunak torpedoes that, in light of his now-documented enthusiasm for the benefits of being able to trade freely with the EU, then who knows?

I guess he may well have it in his sights.

Not for any pro Eu reasons, just that he’s far more pragmatic than the legislation that was drafted by the reckless elements.

briantrumpet

morstar said:

briantrumpet said:

kingstongraham said:

I've started to think we'll rejoin the single market.

The next test will be the bill to rescind hundreds of EU-originated laws. If Sunak torpedoes that, in light of his now-documented enthusiasm for the benefits of being able to trade freely with the EU, then who knows?

I guess he may well have it in his sights.

Not for any pro Eu reasons, just that he’s far more pragmatic than the legislation that was drafted by the reckless elements.

Yup, and if he sees Tory poll numbers improving with his pragmatism, and he listens back to what he told NI about the advantage of being in the Single Market, he might twig that closing off that possibility with wrecking legislation would be the opposite of pragmatism.

orraloon

The Tufton Street cabal will be after HiRisk. Incoming stuff predicted on non-dom tax dodging et al.

Jezyboy

briantrumpet said:

morstar said:

briantrumpet said:

kingstongraham said:

I've started to think we'll rejoin the single market.

The next test will be the bill to rescind hundreds of EU-originated laws. If Sunak torpedoes that, in light of his now-documented enthusiasm for the benefits of being able to trade freely with the EU, then who knows?

I guess he may well have it in his sights.

Not for any pro Eu reasons, just that he’s far more pragmatic than the legislation that was drafted by the reckless elements.

Yup, and if he sees Tory poll numbers improving with his pragmatism, and he listens back to what he told NI about the advantage of being in the Single Market, he might twig that closing off that possibility with wrecking legislation would be the opposite of pragmatism.

I would be very interested to see what would happen if Rishi put SM in the manifesto.

I think with polling where it is, he almost may as well roll the dice.

I imagine the only open Tory voter on here would vote for them whatever was promised, but I imagine the commitment to SM membership would at least turn the heads of a few on here.

briantrumpet

Jezyboy said:

briantrumpet said:

morstar said:

briantrumpet said:

kingstongraham said:

I've started to think we'll rejoin the single market.

The next test will be the bill to rescind hundreds of EU-originated laws. If Sunak torpedoes that, in light of his now-documented enthusiasm for the benefits of being able to trade freely with the EU, then who knows?

I guess he may well have it in his sights.

Not for any pro Eu reasons, just that he’s far more pragmatic than the legislation that was drafted by the reckless elements.

Yup, and if he sees Tory poll numbers improving with his pragmatism, and he listens back to what he told NI about the advantage of being in the Single Market, he might twig that closing off that possibility with wrecking legislation would be the opposite of pragmatism.

I would be very interested to see what would happen if Rishi put SM in the manifesto.

I think with polling where it is, he almost may as well roll the dice.

I imagine the only open Tory voter on here would vote for them whatever was promised, but I imagine the commitment to SM membership would at least turn the heads of a few on here.

That would be quite amusing on a number of levels.

kingstongraham

He's more likely to self combust.