Pog v Rog v Remco v Vinge (v Bernal?) in a GT - will we ever see it?

larkim

We could have the Federer vs Nadal vs Djokovic style of generational talents dominating races for a number of years (or not, who knows?).
What's the chance they line up against each other in a GT in the next 2-3 years?

kingstongraham

Possibly next year, if Rog is prepared to be a super domestique. Surely all of the top three want the TdF (and think they can do it).

Pross

I would rule out Rog, I don't think he's winning any GTs that one of the others finishes going forward.

hanshotfirst

Feel like labelling Pog, Jonas, Remco and Bernal as the big 4 is going to be way sexier than when they tried to do it for Froomedawg, Nibs, Bert and Nairo*.

(Remember when they asked if Teejay van Garderen should have been included to make it a big 5? LOL)

larkim

Hesitant that Bernal will get back to top form, but if we've got any four of Rog / Pog / Bernal / Vinge / Remco then that will definitely have the kudos that the tennis trio feel like, with the potential to be around for a long time.
Who is the Murray, I suppose becomes the key question.

pblakeney

I'd suggest it is indeed like the tennis. A top 3 of Pog/Vinge/Remco. Bernal is currently holding what was the Murray role. 😉 He may make it a top 4, he may not.

hanshotfirst

pblakeney said:

. Bernal is currently holding what was the Murray role.

He could have been the greatest of his generation, maybe of all time... you know... if it hadn't been for the other 3 dudes who were better than him dominating the sport during his career.

phreak

Pogacar has had a pretty low key time since the Tour. I wonder if he'll look to use Lombardia to re-exert some of his old invinsibility?

kingstongraham

phreak said:

Pogacar has had a pretty low key time since the Tour. I wonder if he'll look to use Lombardia to re-exert some of his old invinsibility?

I can't see 2022's version of Evenepoel losing contact like 2021's.

phreak

kingstongraham said:

phreak said:

Pogacar has had a pretty low key time since the Tour. I wonder if he'll look to use Lombardia to re-exert some of his old invinsibility?

I can't see 2022's version of Evenepoel losing contact like 2021's.

Vingegaard hasn't raced since the Tour either. He came 14th last year, which while not in the mix isn't too shabby either (he finished ahead of Remco). There are a few interesting narratives at play. Roglic will want to show he's not out of the picture, and has had a couple of top 10s in the past. Adam Yates will have a chance to show Pogacar he's not going to UAE to play second fiddle. Pogacar will want to show he can beat Vingegaard (and vice versa).

It will be the first race of the year when all of the big names (bar Bernal) will be on the start list. Should be a cracker.

m.r.m.

Pross said:

I would rule out Rog, I don't think he's winning any GTs that one of the others finishes going forward.

I'm not sure about that. Roglic was less than 100% starting the Vuelta this year and Remco was hardly head and shoulders better than him prior to his crash. I'm not convinced Remco would have been able to hold on for the win if Roglic hadn't crashed out.
Judging by Roglic's tone deaf comments after the Vuelta, he hardly seems like someone seeing themselves as a domestique from now onwards for Vingegaard in regards to the Tour. I'm convinced Roglic will still expect captain status at the Tour and will switch teams of he doesn't get it. JV don't lose anything by running 2 captains for the Tour, so I'm not saying him leaving is likely. Just that he will definitely want (dual) captainship for the Tour (and the other GT's).

RichN95.

hanshotfirst said:

I could have been the greatest footballer of my genera

hanshotfirst said:

Feel like labelling Pog, Jonas, Remco and Bernal as the big 4 is going to be way sexier than when they tried to do it for Froomedawg, Nibs, Bert and Nairo*.

(Remember when they asked if Teejay van Garderen should have been included to make it a big 5? LOL)

From the beginning of 2010 to the 2018 Tour there were 26 Grand Tours. One of Froome, Contador or Nibali was on the podium of 22 of them. They won 14 of them - 16 if you include DQs.

tailwindhome

Tbh I think Rogs TDF chances have slipped by

Dorset_Boy

Before the Vuelta, Jens Voigt said he thinks Roglic will not win another GT.

DeVlaeminck

I agree Remco didn't look head and shoulders above Roglic but that's more a question mark over Remco rather than an indication Roglic can compete with Pogacar and Ving. I'm not saying Remco can't just that winning the Vuelta doesn't prove you can beat on the best at the Tour.

I'm not writing Roglic off but right now it'd be hard to see him as better than 4th favourite - maybe he'll be steered towards the Giro instead ?

bonk_king

The big three in tennis though have very regularly all started many of the same tournaments together, so they're pitting their wits and skills against each other all the time.

How often will pog, Rog, Jonas and remco come together in the big three tours year on year.

m.r.m.

tailwindhome said:

Tbh I think Rogs TDF chances have slipped by

I agree regarding the Tour (not the Vuelta though), but I doubt Roglic will acquiesce into a domestique role quietly.

Would Vingegaard have been able to beat Pogacar without the Granon stage help of Roglic? I don't think so. I think it really took both of them to crack Pogacar.

jdee84

phreak said:

Adam Yates will have a chance to show Pogacar he's not going to UAE to play second fiddle.

I'd be surprised it Adam Yates ever podiums a GT at this stage and certainly he'll never finish ahead of Pog at a GT that they both start and finish regardless of what team they're on.

phreak

jdee84 said:

phreak said:

Adam Yates will have a chance to show Pogacar he's not going to UAE to play second fiddle.

I'd be surprised it Adam Yates ever podiums a GT at this stage and certainly he'll never finish ahead of Pog at a GT that they both start and finish regardless of what team they're on.

For sure, it's extremely unlikely. Nonetheless, he has a chance in Lombardia to ride for himself, which probably won't be the case next year, so you'd imagine he will want to take that chance to show them what he can do.

larkim

< rel="RichN95.">

From the beginning of 2010 to the 2018 Tour there were 26 Grand Tours. One of Froome, Contador or Nibali was on the podium of 22 of them. They won 14 of them - 16 if you include DQs.

From 2004 to date, Fed / Djoko / Nadal have *won* (not podiumed) 62 out of 75 events (83%). Quite a bit better hit rate than the cyclists, and in most cases they had one or more of the other two to either defeat in the final or have them knocked out earlier.

pblakeney

larkim said:

From the beginning of 2010 to the 2018 Tour there were 26 Grand Tours. One of Froome, Contador or Nibali was on the podium of 22 of them. They won 14 of them - 16 if you include DQs.

From 2004 to date, Fed / Djoko / Nadal have *won* (not podiumed) 62 out of 75 events (83%). Quite a bit better hit rate than the cyclists, and in most cases they had one or more of the other two to either defeat in the final or have them knocked out earlier.

If this were to happen in cycling people would moan about it being boring.

norvernrob

If Bernal gets back to his best, he’s going to need a TT-lite GT to beat Pog and Vin. It’s hard to tell how good a climber Remco can be until he faces the best again, but at this stage I’d fancy the others to crack him in a 3 week Tour. He’s improving all the time though.

I just want to see them all healthy and in the same races.

larkim

They'll all improve from where they are now (injuries excepted) surely? The intriguing bit will be who will improve the most, who will develop new skills they haven't currently mastered (e.g. racing nous, TT ability, 3 week management) and who will plateau. Plus of course the parcours will change the balance of power on individual Tours.
The prominence of the Tour surely means they'll all want to race that if they think they are at their best for a season.

pblakeney

larkim said:

They'll all improve from where they are now (injuries excepted) surely? ....

???
Roglic is 33 years old.

orraloon

Ned B predicting in latest NSF podcast that Vingegaard will never win another GT.

kingstongraham

orraloon said:

Ned B predicting in latest NSF podcast that Vingegaard will never win another GT.

On what basis? He's just beaten the previously unbeatable fair and square, so unless Remco is going to win everything for the next 5 years, it's just a guess.

daniel_b

That's an odd prediction - he beat the red hot favourite.

*Vingegaard not boulting.

orraloon

From memory, though could go back and relisten, Ned B reckons Vinegar doesn't have the drive / motivation to keep on competing vs Remco plus, having banked a TdF and all that goes with.

phreak

kingstongraham said:

orraloon said:

Ned B predicting in latest NSF podcast that Vingegaard will never win another GT.

On what basis? He's just beaten the previously unbeatable fair and square, so unless Remco is going to win everything for the next 5 years, it's just a guess.

Lombardia will be a good benchmark. Pre-Tour Pogacar had an air of invincibility about him that he hasn't had since his defeat, while Vingegaard hasn't raced at all since. Even if they don't contest for the win, you'd imagine they would want a good showing against the other.

No_Ta_Doctor

phreak said:

kingstongraham said:

orraloon said:

Ned B predicting in latest NSF podcast that Vingegaard will never win another GT.

On what basis? He's just beaten the previously unbeatable fair and square, so unless Remco is going to win everything for the next 5 years, it's just a guess.

Lombardia will be a good benchmark. Pre-Tour Pogacar had an air of invincibility about him that he hasn't had since his defeat, while Vingegaard hasn't raced at all since. Even if they don't contest for the win, you'd imagine they would want a good showing against the other.

Vingegaard is racing the Cro tour at the moment, Lombardia prep.

larkim

pblakeney said:

larkim said:

They'll all improve from where they are now (injuries excepted) surely? ....

???
Roglic is 33 years old.

Fair on the age perspective, but I would still expect 2023 to be a better year for Roglic than 2022, so maybe it's not improvement from his peak, it is an improvement from where he is at the moment. tbh though I'd forgotten he was quite that old!