Skip lunch or go for a ride?

mr_eddy

Advice please.

I would like to lose a bit of weight (ultimately about 10kg but 2-3kg to start with) - No specific deadline but ideally before 2022 is over. I am 5'11" and around 95kg which is just too much for my height, really I should be more like 85kg or so. Not massively overweight but enough for it to put me into the at risk category for a lot of stuff

I am at the age now where the desire to lose weight has nothing to do with looking better and everything to do with mitigating heart disease / diabetes / stroke / high blood pressure etc.

Dilemma I have is that I have almost no time during the week to get on the bike, working full time from home means I can't 'commute' and in the morning I have to get my daughter dressed, fed and over to nursery before 8am and then collect her again at lunch time to get her to my parents for the afternoon (we can't afford FT nursery) so my lunch time break is gone too doing that.

I know if I really put my mind to it I could probably get up extra early and get a 30-45 min ride in but given its flat around here and I just don't have the fitness (yet) to go hard / HIIT without passing out I can't imagine burning more than 400 calories at the most and I would just feel so hungry that I would probably over-eat at breakfast mitigating any calorie deficit.

Also doing a ride with that sort of pressure/time limit would just make it less fun and generally I ride my bike because I like riding my bike so if I take away the pleasure of riding then I might as well just have a exercise bike instead.

With the above in mind for purely weight loss would I be better off skipping say lunch or would having lunch and getting a morning ride be better. Purely from a calorie deficit point of view.

I am thinking skipping a meal would be a better option for calorie deficit.

I still love my weekend rides and they ain't going away just seems like trying to force a bike ride in during the working day is just so damn disruptive.

pblakeney

Skipping meals is never a good idea. Eliminating junk/unhealthy food is the way to go.
Oh, and stop calorie counting. It doesn't work.

mr_eddy

My diet is reasonably good so not a huge amount of junk but I do eat quite a bit. I thought intermittent fasting was a good way to boost metabolism?

pblakeney

mr_eddy said:

My diet is reasonably good so not a huge amount of junk but I do eat quite a bit. I thought intermittent fasting was a good way to boost metabolism?

I'd suggest going from reasonably good to good and reduce portion size.
I am not an expert though, just someone who has lost weight.

pblakeney

Here's a tip.
Write down everything you eat for the next 24 hours. It will likely prove illuminating.
No cheating. 😉 You don't have to go public, just an exercise for yourself.

mr_eddy

Good idea re portion size and diary , will give that a go. Maybe I will try that 1st before intermittent fasting. I am probably going to skip trying to fit in a daytime ride , it's just so much messing about for a 30 min not very enjoyable ride.

Thanks

MidlandsGrimpeur2

What @pblakeney said, reducing portion size is a key means of losing weight. Most people would be amazed at what an actual recommended portion size is for a lunch/dinner for an adult. I suspect the average portion size of most people is at least double what it should be.

Cutting out snacking in between meals is also helpful. In addition, removing processed/ready meals is a biggie, cooking fresh meals allows you to control what is in them and keeps fat/sugar/additives to a minimum, all of which will help.

Finally, eat only when you are actually hungry. You don't need to stick to a regimented eating habit (the old '3 square meals a day') if you don't need it. I am not saying skip meals if you are genuinely hungry and need to eat, but if you don't fancy lunch, then don't have it for the sake of it.

ugo.santalucia

Calories counting doesn't work, but calories awareness is still important. I was staggered to find out that a very small English breakfast, the kind with one item per type is about 1,000 KCal and a half baguette (Upper crust size) with some falafels is over 800 KCal, so both of them are (or exceed) a substantial meal on their own.
A pint + a 32.5g packet of Walkers is about 300 KCal, so if you have one every night, that's an extra day worth of food per week and you can, in theory, fatten up about 10kg in one year, just by having that habit

kingstongraham

If you don't look at what you are eating, you'll just increase your intake when you put in an extra ride.

rick_chasey

I read somewhere exercise usually only consumes up to 15% of your total energy expenditure so to lose weight it’s an awful lot simpler to focus on eating less

singleton

For 99% of the population, we simply cannot outride or outrun a bad diet - the other 1% are people who do ultras and trans continental races and frankly they eat pretty well most of the time anyway.

If you want to read something, I suggest Racing Weight by Matt Fitzgerald. It's not about getting thin, it's about finding the right weight for you to perform at your best, and there are some great principles in it.

First.Aspect

rick_chasey said:

I read somewhere exercise usually only consumes up to 15% of your total energy expenditure so to lose weight it’s an awful lot simpler to focus on eating less

Basal metabolic rate is quite easy to measure, but is normally in the 1500-2000 kcal range.

200W for one hour is about 700 Calories. So a leisure cyclist cycling for an hour a day on average is already at 30%, give or take. That seems worthwhile to me, plus lean weight it geberates increases your basal metabolic rate.

Seems to me that as with all of these things, the answer is a bit of both. That is to say, go on the enthalpy diet and east less than you use. There are lots of other good reasons to exercise, besides just weight.

I've just lost about 4kg just by cutting out about 80% of the alcohol and making my fat, sugars and carbs larger and less convenient, so I take in a bit less. Fewer refined treats, basically.

I doubt I'll land at my early 30s weight, but it's in range now at least....

ugo.santalucia

rick_chasey said:

I read somewhere exercise usually only consumes up to 15% of your total energy expenditure so to lose weight it’s an awful lot simpler to focus on eating less

Go tell Van Aert...

joeyhalloran

Ultimately it's both as simple and as hard as calories in Vs calories out.

It's so simple to write but influenced by so many factors; you need to find what works for you to keep these in balance.

I really liked intermittent fasting, I felt great on it but now no longer do it due to circumstances. I still fast for ~ 14 hrs a day but that's just because I have an early dinner and late breakfast. It's also a very easy lifestyle change to try.

Focus on quality, focus on portions and move when you can. Do you do the nursery drop off cycling or walking for example?

mr.b-campag

Ymmv but I've found time restricted eating (which is what I think you mean rather than intermittent fasting) works really well. The advice is usually to skip breakfast a couple of times a week and see how you get on with this. (But it might be that skipping dinner works better - you'll know which is more likely to work for you).

Counting calories is a waste of time. The accuracy you will find on labels will be at best +/- 20% and quite possibly more like 50% out. More fundamentally we all react differently to different types of food And note that eg ground almonds versus actual almonds will have the same calories printed on the packet, but you will be able to absorb a massive amount more form the former ie bioavilability can vary massively depending on how food is prepared.

Lots of sensible stuff here - cut down portion sizes (and use smaller plates so they look full) and try and eat 'real' ideally home-cooked food (tho noting you are pretty time constrained).

I now only eat in a six hour window and can eat whatever I like pretty much without gaining any wait (and my partner has done the same and lost 10kgs over the last year or so). I'm a bit taller than you, probably the same age bracket and weigh 70kgs so it can be done.

Lots of really good stuff from Tim Spector and others on TRE that might also provide you with help. Good luck!

darkhairedlord

Do both

N0bodyOfTheGoat

If time constraints are really as bad as they sound in OP, the solution sounds like a smart turbo trainer.

There are big gains to be made for many of us non pros by frequent regular rides of 30-60mins.

The key is not going overboard with too much threshold+ workouts/races too soon and risking over training fatigue.

And if your weight is down to excessive snacking, as mine was, replace a lot of the snacks with something like squash. Low calorie but fools the stomach into feeling full. Replacing easy to chew and swallow soft sugary snacks with restrained amounts of hard boiled sweets might help get the fix, things like chocolate raisins and hot cross buns are my downfall and easy scoff loads in a very short space of time.

95Kg in summer '16, 73Kg in summer '17 on a very ruthless and possibly unsustainable diet, typically ~80Kg these days. I'd be happy to get to and maintain ~76Kg again.

daniel_b

That's a tough gig with those time constraints, is there anyone else who could be in a position to take on any of those ferrying tasks 1 or 2 days a week?

I'd echo the recommendation for a turbo trainer, they are way more involving than they used to, and if you can stretch to a direct drive trainer, a thoroughly enjoyable experience, or at least beneficial experience ;-)
The other bonus is you can carry out a defined workout, less to get ready and prep, and no chance of getting stuck out on the road with a mechanical.

If you are that time crunched, have you considered running?
It's more efficient at burning calories than cycling, quicker to get ready, and you can get a quick run in at the drop of a hat should an opportunity open up.

I too am guilty of succumbing to snacks, chocolate, cakes, etc etc

I managed to lose circa 10kg 2 years ago, gradually over a full 12 months, but have since put back on 6 of those.

I know this is different to your aims, but this year I haven't been focussing so much on what I am eating, and am instead concentrating on increasing my ftp and as a side effect I enjoy those weekend rides that little bit more.

Good luck with your quest.

katani

mr_eddy said:

I thought intermittent fasting was a good way to boost metabolism?

There is no such thing as boosting metabolism. It does fluctuate, but it is some +/-100 kcals in a day which is FA when it comes to reducing weight. What people often think is "slow metabolism" is just the body making you move slower/less when there is less energy available.
What intermittent fasting can do is make you eat less calories as you now have an eating window which naturally restricts how much time you have during the day to eat, but whether it works out as intended still depends on maintaining a daily caloric deficit by controlling calorie in/out and not by speeding up the metabolism. Having a watch/smartphone that counts steps and setting a daily goal, say 10,000 per day, is a good way to make sure your "metabolism doesn't slow down".
Just reduce the size of each of the meals, or replace calorie dense ingredients with less calorie dense i.e avoid fried foods, peanut/almond butters, eat plenty of vegetables, drink lots of water, reduce daily stress, by meditation/breathing exercises.
Also remember that when you lose weight your daily caloric requirement drops with it, so what was at the beginning a decent deficit at 95kg, will no longer be at all at 90kg.

katani

ugo.santalucia said:

Calories counting doesn't work, but calories awareness is still important. I was staggered to find out that a very small English breakfast, the kind with one item per type is about 1,000 KCal and a half baguette (Upper crust size) with some falafels is over 800 KCal, so both of them are (or exceed) a substantial meal on their own.
A pint + a 32.5g packet of Walkers is about 300 KCal, so if you have one every night, that's an extra day worth of food per week and you can, in theory, fatten up about 10kg in one year, just by having that habit

Yeah, it is not necessary to count calories to lose weight, and some people may even find it counterproductive, but it is extremely useful to do it for a period of time just as an eye opener exercise, isn't it. Those meals you mentioned are extreme examples and most people know they are calorie dense, but there are other less obvious examples like most people think nuts are healthy, but a handful of cashews can be 700kcals, while at the same time 6 medium sized apples is just 400kcals, but they are a much bigger volume of food.

Munsford0

Exercise for fitness and diet for weight control (I've proved repeatedly that I can out-eat any amount of exercise). Doing both is obviously best for your health.

I realised in middle-age that I'd become a bit portly. Nothing spectacular, but fatter than I wanted to be, and not a good look on a 5'6" short@rse. Upping the exercise only made me hungrier. 24-7 calorie counting gets boring very quickly, and I have the impulse control of a labrador around food so I'd fall off the wagon every couple of days, lose no weight, and beat myself up about it.

Then I watched Michael Mosely's documentary on living longer:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01lxyzc

and the 5-2 diet that resulted from it. It interested me because in addition to weight loss, the intermittent fasting seemed to produce beneficial effects on blood lipids and other stuff I can't remember.

Long story short I gave it a go and went from 11st 3lbs down to 10st quite easily. Mondays and Thursdays I eat nothing till the evening, then it's something small like poached eggs or beans on toast. (it was originally meant to be 600 kcal on fasting days but I gather he's upped it to 800 now)
Rest of the time I eat / drink what I like. That was nearly 10 years ago, but I eat like this more or less all the time now, and only make an exception on holiday or at Christmas. Weight is pretty constant at 9st 10lbs

I find it astoundingly easy to stick to knowing that the next day I can eat what I like. Only downside I've noticed is in the winter I feel the cold more on fasting days.

YMMV. Some colleagues have tried it and couldn't hack it at all

katani

pblakeney said:

Skipping meals is never a good idea. Eliminating junk/unhealthy food is the way to go.

Calories in/out is key to weight loss, but from my own experience of trying to tackle weight loss, I find focusing on the above + regular working out to improve body composition, rather than focusing on pure numbers on the scales dropping by only reducing food intake is what brings the best results LONG TERM. Focus on quality, not necessarily quantity. Studies have shown that a healthy male can consume regularly even up to 300 kcals above their daily requirement and not gain weight provided their diet was made up of high quality ingredients - with the emphasis on including mono- and poly-unsaturated fatty acids, adequate dietary fiber, plant based protein and excluding sugar, particularly fructose, saturated fatty acids and dietary cholesterol.
Losing weight is one thing, but maintaining the new one lower one long term is another, far more difficult as research shows 93% of people who try to lose weight, either return to their original weight or even gain more fat. This is because only just reducing calorie intake causes relatively large muscle mass loss along with the number of mitochondria which are responsible for burning fat. So the person often will achieve a short term weight loss, but once they come out of the caloric deficit and enter the maintenance phase they find themselves rapidly gaining fat, and often more than they had before.

Defblade

Get a trailer so you can ride the taxi trips... sneak in a ride disguised as a chore

Then take your pick from the food ideas above

homers_double

Have a look a the six pack revolution, it focuses on eating clean, small portions over the day.
I'm struggling to get to 2000 calories on it and am never hungry, although I do crave a sweet treat now and again. Aldi or Lidl vanilla protein puddings sort this out
I'm not doing the program, a mate did and I'm just loosely following the same thing.
We have the occasional night on the gin but have cut that down quite a bit and I've lost around 10lbs in about 6 weeks.

I have increased my exercise as I'm back in training so that will also have contributed massively. FYI I'm 178cm tall and currently 93kg, down from 98kg after a big holiday.

daniel_b

homers_double said:

Have a look a the six pack revolution, it focuses on eating clean, small portions over the day.
I'm struggling to get to 2000 calories on it and am never hungry, although I do crave a sweet treat now and again. Aldi or Lidl vanilla protein puddings sort this out
I'm not doing the program, a mate did and I'm just loosely following the same thing.
We have the occasional night on the gin but have cut that down quite a bit and I've lost around 10lbs in about 6 weeks.

I have increased my exercise as I'm back in training so that will also have contributed massively. FYI I'm 178cm tall and currently 93kg, down from 98kg after a big holiday.

That sounds quite intriguing - not really able to work out what the cost is yet, as it's not open until tomorrow, but like the idea of some recipes to follow/meal plans etc.

homers_double

I think to have the "official" plan it's about 150ish which included the motivational aspect etc but if you do it on your own it can be as cheap and easy as you like.

I'll give you a typical example of my day yesterday...
Morning workout - None.
Breakfast - shreddies with 75g of blueberries and some oat milk
11 o'clock meal - fruit and a Lidl protein pudding/yoghurt
Lunch work out - 60 minute swim followed by a protein shake
1.30 snack - pre packed chicken & a garden salad from the supermarket (snack and meal swapped as I didn't want to swim on a full stomach)
4pm meal - 3 x rice cakes with cottage cheese
Evening workout, 7km run
Evening meal, plant based burger and a bit of salad on a brown thin with about 150g of sweet potato fries (cooked in our air fryer)

The day prior was a bit hectic, hence the pre packed salad however on an evening I'll usually prep the following days food whilst making dinner.

Air fry a couple of chicken breasts, and make up some salad for the 11am and 4pm meals. The 4pm meal may also include a wholemeal wrap if I'm doing a ride or run.

I go home at lunch (Mrs HD works from home) and have a snack, maybe a smoothie or some smashed eggs on rivita.

Dinner is generally organized in the morning, fish or lean meat etc.

If I swim it's generally in the morning so I'll throw in a protein shake for afterwards.

I have a fridge at work so stock up on the protein puddings. I generally find that I need something sweet later on so these hit the spot.

Rice cakes keep in the works kitchen as does some cottage cheese in the fridge to go with them.

I'm not feeling hungry at all doing this and cost wise, its as cheap as you want to make it. Bulk buy chicken and freeze the breasts individually. Tinned tuna is cheap, high in protein and easy to store at work.

Today I've done...
A pre work gym session followed by a shake
fruit and protein pud for breakfast
salad and chicken for 11am
rice cakes and cottage cheese planned for 1.30

Tonight's swim workout might not happen, my parents arrive back from a month in Italy this afternoon so we may end up on the wine or gin.

That's where I dip out every now and again and don't have to answer to a coach.

daniel_b

That sounds really good - shame they don't provide a 'recipes' only option for a reduced fee.

homers_double

You can just buy the "eat your way to a six pack"book by Scott somethingorother...
My mates currently got the book so I don't know his name.

homers_double

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Eat-Your-Way-Six-Pack/dp/1786236702

There you go.