Tubular or tubeless for racing

gregoric.nikolajze5DNBur
gregoric.nikolajze5DNBur Posts: 1
in Road buying advice
Hello,

I am a junior cyclist and am looking for a new wheelset. I am planning on using it exclusively for racing because I have already got a alloy wheelset for training. I have a rim brake bike and I am looking at carbon wheelsets. I am wondering whether I should buy a tubular or a clincher/tubeless ready wheelset. I know that tubular wheelsets are lighter and maybe safer when it comes to punctures but I can see that the market is moving away from tubulars. I want a light wheelset since I like climbing, but I have heard that a tubeless setup has a lower rolling resistance. Does the lower rolling resistance outweigh the higher weight and what is your advice for a race specific carbon rim brake wheelset - tubular or tubeless? Thank you.
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Comments

  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,325
    I would say tubeless is better for you... I can see people having to abandon a race because of a flat, that would normally be avoided with tubeless. The benefits of tubulars are mainly seen on an alpine stage, where descending on a flat tyre is safer if it's glued, but realistically, how much descent are you going to do as a junior? I wouldn't think that weight or rolling resistance matter too much either, so I would really prioritise your chances of actually being in the race... so tubeless
    left the forum March 2023
  • MattFalle
    MattFalle Posts: 11,644
    edited July 2022
    tubular

    run flat, lighter, easier to use.

    if worried about punctures just dlsm some sealant in
    .
    The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,325
    MattFalle said:

    tubular

    run flat, lighter, easier to use.

    if worried about punctures just dlsm some sealant in

    But then the sealant goes dry in the off season and you have to bin a perfectly usable tyre...
    left the forum March 2023
  • MattFalle
    MattFalle Posts: 11,644
    edited July 2022
    no.

    i whacked sealant in mine 3 years ago. all is still fine.

    its a bicycle tyre not the space shuttle

    Tubular.
    .
    The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
  • MidlandsGrimpeur2
    MidlandsGrimpeur2 Posts: 2,129
    I think both have pros and cons. The major issue is the puncture factor, as MF and Ugo have discussed. I have never put sealant in a tubular like MF so cannot comment on its effectiveness. I have had large cuts in tubeless tires which would not seal, so if that happens your race could be over anyway.

    If it is a race wheel, then personally I would proritise stiffness/aero over weight or rolling resistance as this will give you the best efficiency with watts saved. Something around 45mm rim depth would be a good sweet spot IMO.
  • thegreatdivide
    thegreatdivide Posts: 5,807
    Tubular. It’s what everyone was using in races, TTs and hill climb comps for years and years until someone said ‘ah but tubeless - buy tubeless’.

    Wee bottle of Tufo Extreme Sealant and a CO2. Job done.
  • thegreatdivide
    thegreatdivide Posts: 5,807
    edited July 2022
    Oh and buy Vittoria Corsa Control tubs. Absolutely awesome rubber.
  • MattFalle
    MattFalle Posts: 11,644
    thegreatdivide said:

    Tubular. It’s what everyone was using in races, TTs and hill climb comps for years and years until someone said ‘ah but tubeless - buy tubeless’.

    Wee bottle of Tufo Extreme Sealant and a CO2. Job done.

    this exactly
    .
    The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
  • MattFalle
    MattFalle Posts: 11,644
    edited July 2022
    and before domrone says " but but but glue"

    nah

    tape 'em on

    perfect and takes 5 mins per tub
    .
    The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,325
    Last time I used a can of spray sealant, it went everywhere and not much inside the tube… I probably just about manager to get 10 psi, enough to slowly roll down the hill and back to the car… I wasn’t overly impressed and no longer buy the stuff
    left the forum March 2023
  • MattFalle
    MattFalle Posts: 11,644
    ugo.santalucia said:

    Last time I used a can of spray sealant, it went everywhere and not much inside the tube… I probably just about manager to get 10 psi, enough to slowly roll down the hill and back to the car… I wasn’t overly impressed and no longer buy the stuff

    nope, used it a few times snd never had problem. its quite popular as well, so others may also have used it succesfully

    sounds like operator error.
    .
    The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
  • MattFalle
    MattFalle Posts: 11,644
    edited July 2022
    at the end of the day though, tubs get you laid, and thats what matters

    #isthatatubinyourpocketorareyoupleasedtoseeme,?
    .
    The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
  • webboo
    webboo Posts: 6,087
    What’s wrong with riding tyres and tubes. Puncture in a domestic road race and usually it’s race over. Spare tube in back pocket, borrow a pump from the nearest Marshall to get you back to race HQ. High cat races might have a following car with spare wheels.
  • andyrr
    andyrr Posts: 1,823
    MattFalle said:

    at the end of the day though, tubs get you laid, and thats what matters

    #isthatatubinyourpocketorareyoupleasedtoseeme,?

    Most cycling jerseys I’ve seen have pockets at the rear.
    #ifthatswhereyourwhangeristhenyoushouldseeaspecialist
  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    For amateur racing, about the only place I would be using tubs these days would be in closed circuit races. For open road races, with variable surfaces, I'd be using clinchers, either tubed or tubeless. Either way, the differences in weight and performance are absolutely minimal, to the point where it doesn't really matter what you use. You're not going to lose the race because you didn't have tubs.

    Whichever you use - if you puncture - your race is likely to be over anyway...
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,325
    imposter2.0 said:

    For amateur racing, about the only place I would be using tubs these days would be in closed circuit races. For open road races, with variable surfaces, I'd be using clinchers, either tubed or tubeless. Either way, the differences in weight and performance are absolutely minimal, to the point where it doesn't really matter what you use. You're not going to lose the race because you didn't have tubs.

    Whichever you use - if you puncture - your race is likely to be over anyway...

    Agree, hence why tubeless is the smartest choice, as they will reduce your chances of a puncture by quite some margin

    left the forum March 2023
  • super_davo
    super_davo Posts: 1,229
    IMO as a junior just pick up something that's carbon, deep, and cheap. If it's someones old tubulars they are flogging off second hand it will be fine. If going new then tubeless has its advantages but nothing night and day. But whatever you get will get thrown about / crashed and it's always faster to fling your bike into corners than worry about scratching your £1000 wheels / frame / grouset.
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 9,108
    edited July 2022
    Personally I find tubular a faff but there are lots of cheap tubular rim brake wheels on eBay so if you don't mind glueing tyres on rims that might be the way to go.

    As a junior racer maybe someone a bit older might help you get the hang of glueing tubs or I suppose tape is another option - probably easier.

    You can use sealant in tubs - not sure how it affects rolling resistance if at all .

    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • MattFalle
    MattFalle Posts: 11,644
    As de v says

    tubular taped on with sealant

    quicker
    easier
    gets you laid

    #allboxesticked
    .
    The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    DeVlaeminck said:



    You can use sealant in tubs - not sure how it affects rolling resistance if at all .

    I don't see why or how it would affect rolling resistance at all. But the issue with sealant in tubs is:

    a) the sealant might not seal sufficiently. I had sealant in a tub once, which began to blow out once it was inflated over 70psi - and while 70psi might get you home, I wouldn't want to be starting a race on it.

    b) given the above - none of the tub repairers will touch a tub if it has sealant in it. So unless the sealant repairs the hole adequately, you might as well chuck £70-80 down the drain every time you puncture.

  • MattFalle
    MattFalle Posts: 11,644
    edited July 2022
    unless a) you don't get many punctures and b) you race on Sprinters c) the sealant works d)this could be a potential problem with any tyre with sealant

    tubs rock
    tubs get you laid
    use tubs
    .
    The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    MattFalle said:

    d)this could be a potential problem with any tyre with sealant

    It could. But replacing a tubeless tyre will probably cost you about half the price of a tub, to which you might also need to add the cost of more glue or tape.

  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 9,108
    He could use Tufo tubs - apparently can't be repaired traditionally but their sealant is supposed to offer a permanent repair - that said it is advised for a post puncture application though I think they had a different sealant for precautionary application.

    Personally I just use clinchers and tubes as I just find them simple - I did train and race on tubs for a while though back when I first got into cycling it's doable but these days I just like to ride the bike and I seem to enjoy fettling much less than I used to.

    I'll probably get round to trying tubeless on my MTB at some point and if I like it maybe the road bike.
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,325
    I guess the point of junior racing is to see if you are better than your peers... it's a bit early to look for marginal gains in the form of expensive kit... I would like to think that at that level or indeed at any level, it's the best athlete that succeeds, as opposed to the one with the deepest pockets. Once you reach the pinnacle, let the race for the latest innovation begin.
    I think the OP should look at the most reliable option, you really don't want to drive (or be driven) 50 miles to a race, have a flat in the first 5 miles and drive back home wondering why you didn't use tubeless...
    left the forum March 2023
  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    DeVlaeminck said:

    He could use Tufo tubs - apparently can't be repaired traditionally but their sealant is supposed to offer a permanent repair - that said it is advised for a post puncture application though I think they had a different sealant for precautionary application.

    Personally I just use clinchers and tubes as I just find them simple - I did train and race on tubs for a while though back when I first got into cycling it's doable but these days I just like to ride the bike and I seem to enjoy fettling much less than I used to.

    I'll probably get round to trying tubeless on my MTB at some point and if I like it maybe the road bike.

    Ironically, it was a Tufo tub I was talking about above.. ;) Although to be fair, I don't know what type of sealant it had in it, as it came free on a pair of s/h wheels...

  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    ugo.santalucia said:

    I guess the point of junior racing is to see if you are better than your peers... it's a bit early to look for marginal gains in the form of expensive kit...

    Ugo - junior racing is every bit as serious/competitive as national/international level racing. You only have to look at some of the junior performances in the tour series to see the quality there..
  • MattFalle
    MattFalle Posts: 11,644
    imposter2.0 said:

    MattFalle said:

    d)this could be a potential problem with any tyre with sealant

    It could. But replacing a tubeless tyre will probably cost you about half the price of a tub, to which you might also need to add the cost of more glue or tape.

    tape is about £3 a roll for 2 wheels - less than a bag of chips.
    .
    The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
  • MattFalle
    MattFalle Posts: 11,644
    ugo.santalucia said:

    I guess the point of junior racing is to see if you are better than your peers... it's a bit early to look for marginal gains in the form of expensive kit... I would like to think that at that level or indeed at any level, it's the best athlete that succeeds, as opposed to the one with the deepest pockets. Once you reach the pinnacle, let the race for the latest innovation begin.
    I think the OP should look at the most reliable option, you really don't want to drive (or be driven) 50 miles to a race, have a flat in the first 5 miles and drive back home wondering why you didn't use tubeless...

    ugo

    tubeless is offering nothing more than any other option - you're going through one of your obsession stages
    .
    The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
  • MattFalle
    MattFalle Posts: 11,644
    imposter2.0 said:

    MattFalle said:

    d)this could be a potential problem with any tyre with sealant

    It could. But replacing a tubeless tyre will probably cost you about half the price of a tub, to which you might also need to add the cost of more glue or tape.

    buy the best to look/perform the best to be the best
    .
    The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    MattFalle said:

    imposter2.0 said:

    MattFalle said:

    d)this could be a potential problem with any tyre with sealant

    It could. But replacing a tubeless tyre will probably cost you about half the price of a tub, to which you might also need to add the cost of more glue or tape.

    tape is about £3 a roll for 2 wheels - less than a bag of chips.
    So what. It's still a potential additional cost, which is the point I was making.

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