Home heat efficiency

2

Comments

  • pangolin
    pangolin Posts: 6,519
    rjsterry said:

    pangolin said:

    oxoman said:

    I remember compressed straw walls being used internally late 70s early 80s. Prefinished and very thin, you could hear a mouse fart in the next room. You had to glue socket and switch boxes in using special glue. Horrible to work with, only saw it used on a few sites luckily. Was OK till it got wet, went all soggy mouldy and expanded like mad. But was acceptable for mortgages, don't think insurance companies were so keen though.

    Sounds great XD

    These are 23-40 cm thick
    Entirely different thing. Am I right in thinking this is a new build? If so, you may still have some time left on the original warranty - there are a few different schemes but they are all essentially the same idea of a series of inspections during construction, and an insurance backed warranty for X years. If it has 400mm thick walls with that system you will need very little heating at all.
    Yeah 2015 so a few years left. Tbh we looked around and I was a bit put off by the lack of space inside. Smallish kitchen we'd struggle to get everything into, not much storage for all the kids junk etc.

    It's one of these https://www.modcell.com/projects/straw-eco-homes-nearly-finished/
    - Genesis Croix de Fer
    - Dolan Tuono
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 28,428
    edited August 2022
    pangolin said:

    rjsterry said:

    pangolin said:

    oxoman said:

    I remember compressed straw walls being used internally late 70s early 80s. Prefinished and very thin, you could hear a mouse fart in the next room. You had to glue socket and switch boxes in using special glue. Horrible to work with, only saw it used on a few sites luckily. Was OK till it got wet, went all soggy mouldy and expanded like mad. But was acceptable for mortgages, don't think insurance companies were so keen though.

    Sounds great XD

    These are 23-40 cm thick
    Entirely different thing. Am I right in thinking this is a new build? If so, you may still have some time left on the original warranty - there are a few different schemes but they are all essentially the same idea of a series of inspections during construction, and an insurance backed warranty for X years. If it has 400mm thick walls with that system you will need very little heating at all.
    Yeah 2015 so a few years left. Tbh we looked around and I was a bit put off by the lack of space inside. Smallish kitchen we'd struggle to get everything into, not much storage for all the kids junk etc.

    It's one of these https://www.modcell.com/projects/straw-eco-homes-nearly-finished/
    A lot of new builds are tiny. I had a nose around a new development in Longwell Green and the 4 bed houses didn't look as though you could all eat dinner at the same time. A bit depressing that they have tried to make that Modcell development look like it was built 70 years ago. A missed opportunity.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 74,417

    I know we've discussed this stuff before but if you wanted to get a home assessed for energy efficiency - what would be your first port of call.

    Is it better just to make a checklist and do it yourself or are there experts who do this impartially - not trying to flog you whatever it is they install ?

    Only I rent out a small semi (bought 6-7 years ago with an inheritance) and the tenant is really worried about her heating bills. I don't mind spending some money if it helps cut her bills down - especially as she wants to stay long term - but I don't really know who offers neutral advice on this stuff and how much I should be paying for it.

    Hadn’t realised you were a filthy capitalist landlord 😉
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 74,417
    On this, for my own home *ahem* is there much work for me to do to improve heat efficiency?

    It’s a Victorian terrace. No cavity walls front or back. Have decent double glazing already put in as well as a good efficient front door.

    Kitchen is not heated at all and the bathroom upstairs is half-brick so that does leak out heat.

    Can I realistically do anything more?
  • webboo
    webboo Posts: 6,087

    On this, for my own home *ahem* is there much work for me to do to improve heat efficiency?

    It’s a Victorian terrace. No cavity walls front or back. Have decent double glazing already put in as well as a good efficient front door.

    Kitchen is not heated at all and the bathroom upstairs is half-brick so that does leak out heat.

    Can I realistically do anything more?

    Buy a down jacket.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 74,417
    Also does the forum have heat pump views? My garden isn’t big enough for a grounded one so it’s have to be air-to-air
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 28,428

    On this, for my own home *ahem* is there much work for me to do to improve heat efficiency?

    It’s a Victorian terrace. No cavity walls front or back. Have decent double glazing already put in as well as a good efficient front door.

    Kitchen is not heated at all and the bathroom upstairs is half-brick so that does leak out heat.

    Can I realistically do anything more?

    Depends what you mean by realistically. As a more significant project knock down the bathroom and kitchen and build them properly. You may as well have a tent for all the half brick wall does. If you have a suspended ground floor lift the boards and insulate and draughtproof. Cap off any redundant chimneys. You can also internally insulate your walls with something like Thermablok or Calsitherm.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 74,417
    edited August 2022
    Yeah so rebuilding the rooms seems unreasonably expensive. We fitted a door to the kitchen to keep the cold out/heat in.

    We are already strapped for space so losing 3 inches on every wall or whatever it is seems a bit much, especially when the majority of the surface area is shared with our neighbours.

    Seems I’ve done the main things that aren’t rebuilds.
  • orraloon
    orraloon Posts: 12,970

    Also does the forum have heat pump views? My garden isn’t big enough for a grounded one so it’s have to be air-to-air

    When I was house hunting, I did see one all-electric 😳 60s/70s build spread out style bungalow, so lots of rooms all one level, poor insulation, big windows though double glazed, etc. Why did I look at it? Splendid location fronting onto a loch aka lake.

    Heat pump was obvious option. Rough estimate put pump cost in excess of 25k. Plus of course essential insulation work. At least installing new heating system would mean putting in the necessary larger capacity rads, pipework from the go. Heat pumps need larger output rads as input temps lower than from gas or oil fired boiler.

    Not at all an expert btw 😊

    And didn't proceed with that place anyway.

    For my new home, gas CH and 1 to become 2 woodburners, I'm now researching / learning the basics on roof PVs, batteries, and loads of related techie stuff.



  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 26,431

    ..., especially when the majority of the surface area is shared with our neighbours....

    Turn your heating down and let the neighbours heat you.
    May require the use of jerseys. 😉
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 28,428

    Yeah so rebuilding the rooms seems unreasonably expensive. We fitted a door to the kitchen to keep the cold out/heat in.

    We are already strapped for space so losing 3 inches on every wall or whatever it is seems a bit much, especially when the majority of the surface area is shared with our neighbours.

    Seems I’ve done the main things that aren’t rebuilds.

    No need to do the party walls just the external ones. And it could be as little as 1.5". At the rear of the house, maybe you can add the insulation externally. The door is a good idea, but beware condensation and mould in an unheated kitchen.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • focuszing723
    focuszing723 Posts: 7,467

    Closing curtains helps a fair amount because a lot of heat is lost through the glass (some people just use blinds), you can get thermal imaging cameras for Android and iPhone's, I guess that would be more interesting, rather that using that money on insulation, thick curtains.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 74,417
    edited August 2022
    In a terrace it would make sense to pool efforts for a ground source heat pump across all the houses, but we are the yuppies on our stretch so I don’t think they can stretch it.
  • focuszing723
    focuszing723 Posts: 7,467

    I like this shot between a dinosaur squeezings vehicle and an EV.
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 28,428

    In a terrace it would make sense to pool efforts for a ground source heat pump across all the houses, but we are the yuppies on our stretch so I don’t think they can stretch it.

    I have a mad idea that one day I will persuade my three neighbours to get all four houses insulated externally in one go.

    Heat pumps are great but you need the fabric to be up to scratch to avoid the thing running flat out all the time.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 74,417
    rjsterry said:

    In a terrace it would make sense to pool efforts for a ground source heat pump across all the houses, but we are the yuppies on our stretch so I don’t think they can stretch it.

    I have a mad idea that one day I will persuade my three neighbours to get all four houses insulated externally in one go.

    Heat pumps are great but you need the fabric to be up to scratch to avoid the thing running flat out all the time.
    Makes sense.
  • mully79
    mully79 Posts: 904

    Also does the forum have heat pump views? My garden isn’t big enough for a grounded one so it’s have to be air-to-air

    You can’t use air to air to heat a house if the outside temperature drops to freezing. It’s a fundamental principle of air ac systems.

    The ground is always warmer than freezing so can be used as a source for heat transfer.
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 28,428
    mully79 said:

    Also does the forum have heat pump views? My garden isn’t big enough for a grounded one so it’s have to be air-to-air

    You can’t use air to air to heat a house if the outside temperature drops to freezing. It’s a fundamental principle of air ac systems.

    The ground is always warmer than freezing so can be used as a source for heat transfer.
    This isn't quite true. There is still some latent heat in air all the way down until you get to -273C. Granted at below freezing a heat pump has to work harder but they definitely still work.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 28,428
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 26,431
    An electric blanket at 16p for 8 hours appears to be good value for money.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 8,852

    I know we've discussed this stuff before but if you wanted to get a home assessed for energy efficiency - what would be your first port of call.

    Is it better just to make a checklist and do it yourself or are there experts who do this impartially - not trying to flog you whatever it is they install ?

    Only I rent out a small semi (bought 6-7 years ago with an inheritance) and the tenant is really worried about her heating bills. I don't mind spending some money if it helps cut her bills down - especially as she wants to stay long term - but I don't really know who offers neutral advice on this stuff and how much I should be paying for it.

    Hadn’t realised you were a filthy capitalist landlord 😉
    Haha yeah inherited some money off a relative I'd never met.

    Bit of a story about a successful Southampton builder with a wife who was a gambler so his will specified his money was to be invested and his descendents for a couple of generations would only get the interest - my dad's generation were the ones who got whatever was left - only my nan's sister had no kids so her share passed on to us.
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • pblakeney said:

    An electric blanket at 16p for 8 hours appears to be good value for money.

    The wife bought one for our bed a few years ago. I love it.
  • masjer
    masjer Posts: 2,613
    edited August 2022
    masjer said:

    orraloon said:

    An electric blanket! How very very retro. Are you an 'Influencer'?

    Yup, electric blankets are back on trend. You'll all have them next winter.
    From 2021. What a prediction!
  • Thinking to install thermal solar on or roof. Basically "solar panels" where the radiation from the sun warms water, so you then heating water takes you some less energy.
    Very popular here in Germany.

    Anyone here has own experience to share?
  • focuszing723
    focuszing723 Posts: 7,467
    edited August 2022
    oxoman said:

    My parents had 3 of these panels in the very late 70s early 80s and given our hot water was immersion heater only made a big difference. From memory we had 2 hot water takes and a pump. The pump circulated around the panels and heated the 2nd tank which heated the main tank with the immersion heater. It kept the water pretty hot in summer and just warm in winter. Clear moonlit night's made in warmer as well. Given that this was 40yrs ago I would imagine technologies would have improved immensely.


    Seriously? I'm staggered by that.
  • focuszing723
    focuszing723 Posts: 7,467
    edited August 2022
    People in parts of Somerset have been offered the use of thermal imaging cameras to help them save on their energy bills.

    South Somerset District Council bought two infrared cameras and loaned them to parish councils.

    They have been used to show people where heat was escaping from their homes.

    Meanwhile a separate project helped park home residents in Somerset to improve their energy efficiency.

    At dusk in Charlton Musgrove, near Wincanton, Clare Atkinson watched live multicoloured pictures of her house on a mobile phone screen.

    The windows glowed white, while there were blues and purples on cooler - better insulated - parts.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-somerset-60023918

    Thick curtains, not blinds.
  • focuszing723
    focuszing723 Posts: 7,467
    edited August 2022
    oxoman said:

    Should have read it properly first I suppose. Solar systems work off light not heat. Couldn't understand why it didn't catch on at the time.

    Oh, I know, I'm just staggered there is enough reflected sunlight from the Moon's surface to make a measurable difference.
  • orraloon
    orraloon Posts: 12,970

    Thinking to install thermal solar on or roof. Basically "solar panels" where the radiation from the sun warms water, so you then heating water takes you some less energy.
    Very popular here in Germany.

    Anyone here has own experience to share?

    Same thinking for me, starting the learning process, there's quite a lot of tech to understand.

    Prob get moderated for this but whatevs: I asked on a different forum for basic info on roof PVs and a poster on there has started putting up a number of posts explaining how PVs work and what's required. Go to yacf.co.uk and look for OT Knowledge / PV on the roof - what did yours cost?
  • tomato.pazzo
    tomato.pazzo Posts: 6
    edited August 2022
    We paid 13k€ for 9kWp.
    But we got VAT back, so about 11k€.
    This was Germany 2019.

    After 2yr of usage and data collection, I went through the math and it turned out during their 20yr lifespan they should repay themselves, and give a return of 2,3%pa. This includes cost for tax advisor (don't ask), loan servicing, and replace the transformer after 10yr. Assuming electricity inflation of 3%. Better return of course if electricity inflation is higher (its higher of course right now, dunno average over 20yr).

    Very happy overall.
  • oxoman said:

    Should have read it properly first I suppose. Solar systems work off light not heat. Couldn't understand why it didn't catch on at the time.

    There is not very much light at night. At least not much compared to daytime.
    Our photovoltaic produces zero electricity at night. No surprise