Loft insulation

photonic69

rjsterry said:

oxoman said:

Problem is some older houses don't lend themselves to being externally insulated and look horrible after....Some can't be done because there listed etc. A lot of the time when surveyors do an area survey they just give a generic look and copy and paste for everything else. The only way I can improve my place is triple glazing and fitting a heat pump system. The air type aren't particularly long laptop efficient. I've overinsulated the loft and loft conversion have cavity wall insulation even though built pre 1900 and double glazing, fancy rad valves and heating system etc but it still doesn't get me a better rating unless I actually move. PS I was always told if its cold close the door / windows or put a jumper on. People expect to much. However as per the OP get it done it doesn't cost a fortune and is easy to do.

EPCs are so basic as to be aimed useless. External insulation isn't always appropriate, but in that case there's either cavity or internal insulation. Listed proprietors aren't off limits either with a bit of thought. I know of one example that achieved Enerphit (similar to Passivhaus) certification. It's not necessarily easy, but then a heat pump is £8-£10k and will struggle without upgrading the fabric.

I'd love to insulate our house more but being a late Victorian stone clad terrace house in a World Heritage City we cannot insulate externally at the front and the interior has lots of original features such as cornicing that would be ruined if we clad the front wall from the inside. A survey showed we did not have sufficient cavity space to insulate (it was irregular or non existent in places) so we are pretty stuffed. Later this year I might hack the plaster off the inside of the rear bedroom and get it dry-lined and insulated as it is to coldest room of the house with two external walls, one of which faces North. It's a small room already so I'm loath to add insulation over the top of the plaster that is already there.

As far as I'm concerned I'd be happy if they demolished all terraced houses and rebuilt them in a similar fashion but to modern standards, that along with the older Georgian buildings too. A bit like the slum clearances. Carbon costs might take a while to be recouped though.

Heat pumps would never be suitable for where we live as it's almost impossible to upgrade sufficiently for it to work. Maybe if we installed underfloor heating throughout but then we'd lose our wooden floors and it would cost more than double.

vincesummerskRoxcBTr

Lay an extra 200mm in opposite direction to joists or first layer of insulation. Eliminates a lot of gaps.
We did the whole loft to avoiding storing stuff up there!
Search online and buy the stuff made from recycled materials from one of the building suppliers, much cheaper than B and Q and the rolls are bigger.
Wear old clothes, decent mask and gloves to minimise the irritation.

crescent

There used to be a product called Space Blanket, made by a company called Knauff. It was basically 150mm of normal fibre glass insulation wrapped in foil and vacuum packed to make it easier to handle. It is brilliant stuff. I laid 40 rolls in our loft (large bungalow) a while back and it took less than a day. The foil means you don't need a mask or gloves even. When you lay it it is only an inch or so in depth, you then nick a small hole in the foil to break the vacuum and in the next 24hrs it has risen to full depth. It is brilliant stuff and very easy to do, I was amazed at how quickly I finished the job.

crescent

This is the stuff ^

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=knauf+space+blanket&client=ms-android-tef-gb-rvc2&prmd=sivn&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwibqvLjzIv4AhWHi1wKHVBhD-8Q_AUoAnoECAIQAg&biw=412&bih=737&dpr=2.63#imgrc=AZe_zEUteSeDUM

B&Q used to do half price deals on it quite regularly.

pangolin

pangolin said:

Three

I have ignored my own vote and someone is currently insulating my loft to ~270mm rather than the 100-170 patchwork that was up there.

shirley_basso

I have a man to upgrade my loft hatch on Friday and I am then going to DIY it.

Only catch is I need an industrial vacuum to remove all the sawdust-type insulation which is upthere.

I want to board half of it for storage, will leave the other half unboarded.

If I wanted the whole thing boarded and insulated it was gonna cost £2k. I reckon I can do it for less than 1/4 of that, even if I get a handyman to help (my 'man' costs £25/h)

surrey_commuter

shirley_basso said:

I have a man to upgrade my loft hatch on Friday and I am then going to DIY it.

Only catch is I need an industrial vacuum to remove all the sawdust-type insulation which is upthere.

I want to board half of it for storage, will leave the other half unboarded.

If I wanted the whole thing boarded and insulated it was gonna cost £2k. I reckon I can do it for less than 1/4 of that, even if I get a handyman to help (my 'man' costs £25/h)

Can I ask what square metreage you are looking at as I have a man coming to quote for loft hatch/ladder, partial boarding and insulation top up.

pangolin

shirley_basso said:

I have a man to upgrade my loft hatch on Friday and I am then going to DIY it.

Only catch is I need an industrial vacuum to remove all the sawdust-type insulation which is upthere.

I want to board half of it for storage, will leave the other half unboarded.

If I wanted the whole thing boarded and insulated it was gonna cost £2k. I reckon I can do it for less than 1/4 of that, even if I get a handyman to help (my 'man' costs £25/h)

Might be a tad optimistic - you could easily spend £200 on wood, £200 on a loft ladder kit, £200 on insulation, then labour on top of that.

pangolin

surrey_commuter said:

shirley_basso said:

I have a man to upgrade my loft hatch on Friday and I am then going to DIY it.

Only catch is I need an industrial vacuum to remove all the sawdust-type insulation which is upthere.

I want to board half of it for storage, will leave the other half unboarded.

If I wanted the whole thing boarded and insulated it was gonna cost £2k. I reckon I can do it for less than 1/4 of that, even if I get a handyman to help (my 'man' costs £25/h)

Can I ask what square metreage you are looking at as I have a man coming to quote for loft hatch/ladder, partial boarding and insulation top up.

That's exactly what ours is doing, will let you know the damage. Rough quote was £1600. Storage area about 3mx4m. Total loft area about 35m2

surrey_commuter

pangolin said:

surrey_commuter said:

shirley_basso said:

I have a man to upgrade my loft hatch on Friday and I am then going to DIY it.

Only catch is I need an industrial vacuum to remove all the sawdust-type insulation which is upthere.

I want to board half of it for storage, will leave the other half unboarded.

If I wanted the whole thing boarded and insulated it was gonna cost £2k. I reckon I can do it for less than 1/4 of that, even if I get a handyman to help (my 'man' costs £25/h)

Can I ask what square metreage you are looking at as I have a man coming to quote for loft hatch/ladder, partial boarding and insulation top up.

That's exactly what ours is doing, will let you know the damage. Rough quote was £1600. Storage area about 3mx4m. Total loft area about 35m2

Boarding about the same but total area about 90m2.

At that price I might do the rest of the insulation myself - at least I would get some use out of my new ladder and boarding

pangolin

surrey_commuter said:

pangolin said:

surrey_commuter said:

shirley_basso said:

I have a man to upgrade my loft hatch on Friday and I am then going to DIY it.

Only catch is I need an industrial vacuum to remove all the sawdust-type insulation which is upthere.

I want to board half of it for storage, will leave the other half unboarded.

If I wanted the whole thing boarded and insulated it was gonna cost £2k. I reckon I can do it for less than 1/4 of that, even if I get a handyman to help (my 'man' costs £25/h)

Can I ask what square metreage you are looking at as I have a man coming to quote for loft hatch/ladder, partial boarding and insulation top up.

That's exactly what ours is doing, will let you know the damage. Rough quote was £1600. Storage area about 3mx4m. Total loft area about 35m2

Boarding about the same but total area about 90m2.

At that price I might do the rest of the insulation myself - at least I would get some use out of my new ladder and boarding

The insulation quote for the 35m2 was just £180, so only about twice the price of the actual insulation.

shirley_basso

pangolin said:

shirley_basso said:

I have a man to upgrade my loft hatch on Friday and I am then going to DIY it.

Only catch is I need an industrial vacuum to remove all the sawdust-type insulation which is upthere.

I want to board half of it for storage, will leave the other half unboarded.

If I wanted the whole thing boarded and insulated it was gonna cost £2k. I reckon I can do it for less than 1/4 of that, even if I get a handyman to help (my 'man' costs £25/h)

Might be a tad optimistic - you could easily spend £200 on wood, £200 on a loft ladder kit, £200 on insulation, then labour on top of that.

Full details for anyone who cares - quote was produced 2 weeks ago:

Add second layer of perpendicular joists on top of existing, and lay boarding on top (24sqm) £52/sqm = £1,500 incl VAT

Supply and fit a load of insulation (42sqm) - replace and top up existing - £400

Install new, reinforced loft hatch into existing hole in the ceiling - £150

Reinforce hatch structure and install loft latter - £400

Remove old boarding (there is some up there already but not properly fitted) - £120

Total for everything - £2,550.

I am going proceed with the work for the new hatch and loft ladder - the man is coming on Friday. I will do the rest. My loft is sort of split into two halves. I will insulate the whole lot to 270mm, but the near half I will also lay a second layer of perpendicular joists and then board to be used for storage.

shirley_basso

oxoman said:

shirley_basso said:

I have a man to upgrade my loft hatch on Friday and I am then going to DIY it.

Only catch is I need an industrial vacuum to remove all the sawdust-type insulation which is upthere.

I want to board half of it for storage, will leave the other half unboarded.

If I wanted the whole thing boarded and insulated it was gonna cost £2k. I reckon I can do it for less than 1/4 of that, even if I get a handyman to help (my 'man' costs £25/h)

Why cant you leave it up there and just lay the new stuff over it.

I think it has a fire risk. Any existing proper insulation I will leave in place.

surrey_commuter

shirley_basso said:

I have a man to upgrade my loft hatch on Friday and I am then going to DIY it.

Only catch is I need an industrial vacuum to remove all the sawdust-type insulation which is upthere.

I want to board half of it for storage, will leave the other half unboarded.

If I wanted the whole thing boarded and insulated it was gonna cost £2k. I reckon I can do it for less than 1/4 of that, even if I get a handyman to help (my 'man' costs £25/h)

Can I ask what square metreage you

shirley_basso said:

pangolin said:

shirley_basso said:

I have a man to upgrade my loft hatch on Friday and I am then going to DIY it.

Only catch is I need an industrial vacuum to remove all the sawdust-type insulation which is upthere.

I want to board half of it for storage, will leave the other half unboarded.

If I wanted the whole thing boarded and insulated it was gonna cost £2k. I reckon I can do it for less than 1/4 of that, even if I get a handyman to help (my 'man' costs £25/h)

Might be a tad optimistic - you could easily spend £200 on wood, £200 on a loft ladder kit, £200 on insulation, then labour on top of that.

Full details for anyone who cares - quote was produced 2 weeks ago:

Add second layer of perpendicular joists on top of existing, and lay boarding on top (24sqm) £52/sqm = £1,500 incl VAT

Supply and fit a load of insulation (42sqm) - replace and top up existing - £400

Install new, reinforced loft hatch into existing hole in the ceiling - £150

Reinforce hatch structure and install loft latter - £400

Remove old boarding (there is some up there already but not properly fitted) - £120

Total for everything - £2,550.

I am going proceed with the work for the new hatch and loft ladder - the man is coming on Friday. I will do the rest. My loft is sort of split into two halves. I will insulate the whole lot to 270mm, but the near half I will also lay a second layer of perpendicular joists and then board to be used for storage.

That is really helpful. I have a bloke coming on Monday so that gives me a benchmark

Pross

shirley_basso said:

pangolin said:

shirley_basso said:

I have a man to upgrade my loft hatch on Friday and I am then going to DIY it.

Only catch is I need an industrial vacuum to remove all the sawdust-type insulation which is upthere.

I want to board half of it for storage, will leave the other half unboarded.

If I wanted the whole thing boarded and insulated it was gonna cost £2k. I reckon I can do it for less than 1/4 of that, even if I get a handyman to help (my 'man' costs £25/h)

Might be a tad optimistic - you could easily spend £200 on wood, £200 on a loft ladder kit, £200 on insulation, then labour on top of that.

Full details for anyone who cares - quote was produced 2 weeks ago:

Add second layer of perpendicular joists on top of existing, and lay boarding on top (24sqm) £52/sqm = £1,500 incl VAT

Supply and fit a load of insulation (42sqm) - replace and top up existing - £400

Install new, reinforced loft hatch into existing hole in the ceiling - £150

Reinforce hatch structure and install loft latter - £400

Remove old boarding (there is some up there already but not properly fitted) - £120

Total for everything - £2,550.

I am going proceed with the work for the new hatch and loft ladder - the man is coming on Friday. I will do the rest. My loft is sort of split into two halves. I will insulate the whole lot to 270mm, but the near half I will also lay a second layer of perpendicular joists and then board to be used for storage.

Is it just me that finds this item ambiguous? Are they replacing (i.e. removing the old and putting new in to the 270mm depth) or are they topping up what is already there to make it up to 270mm?

I should probably think about getting a quote for similar in ours once I've given it a good clear out and put stuff into storage. At present the wife thinks the loft (along with the shed) have Tardis like qualities despite it being a maximum of about 1.5m high at the ridge.

danx

shirley_basso said:

Add second layer of perpendicular joists on top of existing, and lay boarding on top (24sqm) £52/sqm = £1,500 incl VAT

I assume this means the new joists are not supported on hangers, but screwed over the old ones, just there to provide clearance height for the insulation?

Just remember that your existing joists will be taking the weight of anything up there, including the new woodwork. Ok for light storage maybe but don't go jumping around up there

shirley_basso

Exactly. It wont pass building control for a new room which is why I don't want to commit to boarding the whole lot. Main effort is to get ths insulation sorted and a bit of additional storage.

Access will be only via a ladder so no danger of the kids tearing up there.

shirley_basso

Pross said:

shirley_basso said:

pangolin said:

shirley_basso said:

I have a man to upgrade my loft hatch on Friday and I am then going to DIY it.

Only catch is I need an industrial vacuum to remove all the sawdust-type insulation which is upthere.

I want to board half of it for storage, will leave the other half unboarded.

If I wanted the whole thing boarded and insulated it was gonna cost £2k. I reckon I can do it for less than 1/4 of that, even if I get a handyman to help (my 'man' costs £25/h)

Might be a tad optimistic - you could easily spend £200 on wood, £200 on a loft ladder kit, £200 on insulation, then labour on top of that.

Full details for anyone who cares - quote was produced 2 weeks ago:

Add second layer of perpendicular joists on top of existing, and lay boarding on top (24sqm) £52/sqm = £1,500 incl VAT

Supply and fit a load of insulation (42sqm) - replace and top up existing - £400

Install new, reinforced loft hatch into existing hole in the ceiling - £150

Reinforce hatch structure and install loft latter - £400

Remove old boarding (there is some up there already but not properly fitted) - £120

Total for everything - £2,550.

I am going proceed with the work for the new hatch and loft ladder - the man is coming on Friday. I will do the rest. My loft is sort of split into two halves. I will insulate the whole lot to 270mm, but the near half I will also lay a second layer of perpendicular joists and then board to be used for storage.

Is it just me that finds this item ambiguous? Are they replacing (i.e. removing the old and putting new in to the 270mm depth) or are they topping up what is already there to make it up to 270mm?

I should probably think about getting a quote for similar in ours once I've given it a good clear out and put stuff into storage. At present the wife thinks the loft (along with the shed) have Tardis like qualities despite it being a maximum of about 1.5m high at the ridge.

Bit of both. They won't pull out existing rockwool, but will lay insulation where it doesn't exist. In some cases it's just the second layer, in some it will go in for the first time.

Either way, the insulation laying is marginal in the grand cost of things.

Pross

On the subject of insulation, in our house the downstairs can get quite chilly but upstairs gets overly warm even when the heating is off to the extent that if we've had the heating on downstairs we oftem end up opening a window when we go to bed (heating off by then). This suggests to me that our roof insulation is pretty decent and got me thinking whether we should insulate the void between the ground and first floors to keep as much heat as possible downstairs. It presumably wouldn't be overly effective as you still have a massive gap for the staircase but it would be good to keep the heat downstairs and bedroom cooler if possible. Other than the bathroom we tend to have all our upstairs radiators off on all but the coldest days. I assume that doesn't have too much effect on how long the downstairs raditors are on as they have individual thermostats as well as the central one in the hall.

rjsterry

Are you actually losing too much heat from the ground floor (through drafts), leading to the system over compensating and leading to a hot first floor.

surrey_commuter

I had a very well insulated townhouse and never had the heating on upstairs, I used to keep bedroom doors shut which solved the over heating problem.

This worked better pre-kids

Pross

I don't think so as the upstairs radiators aren't on (other than the bathroom towel rail) so I assume it is just heat rising from downstairs. Downstairs is all thermostatically controlled.

davidof

danx said:

shirley_basso said:

Add second layer of perpendicular joists on top of existing, and lay boarding on top (24sqm) £52/sqm = £1,500 incl VAT

I assume this means the new joists are not supported on hangers, but screwed over the old ones, just there to provide clearance height for the insulation?

Just remember that your existing joists will be taking the weight of anything up there, including the new woodwork. Ok for light storage maybe but don't go jumping around up there

That occurred to me too, it is quite a bit of extra weight. Reminds me of a neighbour who boarded his loft and started storing a lot of stuff up there. He was slowly putting stuff in the loft but stopped to chat to someone. At that point there was a huge crash and the roof and loft collapsed into the house. He did have a lot of weight in the loft though.

Not as bad as a story I heard of someone installing a swimming pool on the roof of his house. The house collapsed during filling :-).

surrey_commuter

Pross said:

I don't think so as the upstairs radiators aren't on (other than the bathroom towel rail) so I assume it is just heat rising from downstairs. Downstairs is all thermostatically controlled.

keep the bedroom doors shut then you are only heating the landing and stairs.