E-bikes Are Sh#t!

reaperactual

Yes, you read the title right. 😲

Been riding with my other two Buddy's regularly for the last five years or so. They've been flaky and hardly been out over the last few winter months, maybe they lost their mojo?

Two weekends ago we went riding and no exaggeration about 70% of other riders were on e-bikes.

Long story short, one Buddy rocked up last Sunday on a second hand Cannondale Trigger 4 Neo. The other guy is about to buy an e-bike too over the next few weeks.

Had a go, yeah I get it, was awesome fun and nothing else quite like it so I get why the lads have decided to get one. Personally I've only just started contemplating getting my first proper full sus and not ready to go down the e-bike route anytime soon.

After the ride on Sunday, forget about trying to keep up (even though he was going really slow and waiting) with me trying to quicken the pace a bit and breathing though my bum hole in order to do so.

With this change in the group dynamic I predict very awkward rides and conversations to come with a total mismatch of ride needs from now on. Anybody else been in a similar position and how did it pan out for you in the long run?

Any comments and thoughts are welcomed as usual, thanks! 👍

gomezz

To be honest, if you are reasonably fit I can't see the point in E bikes.
I am nearly 76 and I bike to keep fit and because I really enjoy biking, I like to give my heart and lungs a workout on the hills, I like to stop for a breather and recover sit and have a snack and feed the Robin crumbs.
If you have health issues then yes they are going to keep you out and about and thats great, but over the last couple of years I have seen more and more young, seemingly very fit e bikers rushing around the woods I ride, ( Sherwood Forest ) and a lot don't give a dam about other riders, walkers or horse riders. Hopefully these kind of riders will soon find other things to do and sell the bike to riders young and old who need them.
When I feel I can't cope then yes I will probably get one but until then I will puff and pant and keep going.

seanoconn

Why was that flagged??

reaperactual

seanoconn said:

Why was that flagged??

I don't know Buddy. Maybe mentioning the bike brand or the swear word in the title? 😬

reaperactual

gomezz said:

To be honest, if you are reasonably fit I can't see the point in E bikes.
I am nearly 76 and I bike to keep fit and because I really enjoy biking, I like to give my heart and lungs a workout on the hills, I like to stop for a breather and recover sit and have a snack and feed the Robin crumbs.
If you have health issues then yes they are going to keep you out and about and thats great, but over the last couple of years I have seen more and more young, seemingly very fit e bikers rushing around the woods I ride, ( Sherwood Forest ) and a lot don't give a dam about other riders, walkers or horse riders. Hopefully these kind of riders will soon find other things to do and sell the bike to riders young and old who need them.
When I feel I can't cope then yes I will probably get one but until then I will puff and pant and keep going.

Yes I'm on the same page with the pros and cons and feel the same.

My Buddy's are sensible and respectful on the trails and doubt that will change. I agree lots of younger riders on the ebikes we've spotted recently.

We're all no spring chickens anymore but are still capable of riding but I need and want the full exercise workout to keep fit.

The point is in order for my friends to stay fit too they're gonna go a lot faster or further to the point I won't be able to keep up or do the kind of mileage e-bikes will encourage them to do.

No ones fault just a weird situation that has popped up and don't see it working out for all concerned the way it is now.

MattFalle

tbf, so long as people are outside, having fun, laughing smiling and not hurting anyone, I don't really mind if they ariding a normal pushie, Ebike or a kangaroo.

is this bad of me?

reaperactual

MattFalle said:

tbf, so long as people are outside, having fun, laughing smiling and not hurting anyone, I don't really mind if they ariding a normal pushie, Ebike or a kangaroo.

is this bad of me?

Not at all. The more people enjoying the outdoors the better imo. Don't care what they're riding and like that side of chatting with like minded people along the way.

Can me and my two ebike Buddy's all get what we want out of riding as a group... I don't know?

steve_sordy

I resisted getting an emtb for years. I thought they were for folk that had "given up" and that definitely wasn't me!" Oh no, definitely not! In addition, the cost was huge. To get an emtb that had a similar spec to your mtb was an extra £1200-£1500 (ouch!)

I used to join in with others and mildly criticise passing ebikers. "Did you get a doctor's note for that?" was my favourite.

But then my knees started with arthritis and slowly but surely the distances I could ride in one go declined and the inclines I could climb dropped alarmingly. I tried everything I could think of to overcome the problem. All the usual physical therapies, painkillers, soothing gels, supplements of various kinds... you name it and I tried it. Some of them worked, partially

But they were not enough. Despite my granny gear being a 30T driving a 52T, there were some short climbs that had become too steep. And if the climb went on for too long, I just couldn't do it. On rides with my buddies, I was slowly but surely ruining their fun (and mine). They were always waiting for me at the top of the climb and I became aware that when they asked me out on long very hilly climbs, I started to say "no sorry, can't do that day, maybe next time." I didn't want to be the guy everyone was waiting for. So, over time I ended up riding alone more and more frequently and my rides went down to 10 miles max and I needed 2-3 days off afterwards to recover. This is not who I wanted to be!

Reluctantly I decided to "give up" and get an emtb. As is my way, I went into it thoroughly and test rode about 8 different emtbs. What a revelation!! Who knew that the choice of motor had such an impact upon the ride? I sure didn't. I made my choice and my riding life came back to life. It has been a life saver.

Suddenly I could do 20+ mile rides on a daily basis, long hills were no longer a problem and if I couldn't get up a really steep bit it was my lack of skill that was the problem. Due to the reduced pressure on my knees they gradually improved and now just walking about and up and down steps are no longer a problem for me. That was an unexpected bonus.

That is the therapeutic bit over with. But having a bit of assistance torque to help the sick, lame, and lazy is not what emtbs are all about. They are the most enormous fun, they really are. That is why fit and active people are choosing to spend such large sums of money on a bike, it is the fun element. It has grown fast and will continue to do so, in my opinion.

Some call using an emtb "cheating". But who is the rider cheating? If they use the motor to gain some KOMs and claim some personal bests without letting on, then I'd call that cheating. But someone who does that is a d1ckhe4d and probably the sort of person that hooligans about on the trail surging past slower riders and generally being an 4r$e. There are always some, and there always will be. Surely we have all been almost bulldozed off the trial by someone shouting "Strava" as they come up behind us. The fact that some of them have an emtb is a certainty and sadly to be expected.
I am not cheating anybody, not even myself. I am not pretending that I don't have some extra torque to call upon. The motor and the battery are not hidden in anyway and emtbs are obvious at a glance. By the way, if someone spends a lot of money on a lightweight carbon bike (frame, wheels, bars, cranks etc) complete with AXS shifting, dropper post, and top of the range suspension to get a lightweight flying machine so they can be faster than all their mates, then is that cheating? Just asking.

Once I'd got my emtb, I started to call my buddies out for a ride and off I went. I very soon realised that unless I throttled my fun right back on the climbs then my mtb buddies didn't like it. The assisted speed of an emtb in Europe is 25kph, ie 15.5mph. Yes that's right, the power shuts off. Suddenly you are astride a big heavy bike with big fat tyres and on flat level ground it's a struggle to get past 18mph (well it is for me). Of course that didn't stop my buddies from blasting past me, cackling and chortling at my misfortune.

Slowly I stopped riding with my previous riding buddies because our aims had diverged. But I very soon started to meet other riders on their emtbs and we started to go on rides together. Now I have a new bunch of riding buddies. We have all accepted that while a mixed group of mtb and emtb is perfectly feasible, it requires too many compromises from both sides for all to have maximum fun. Everyone has fun, but less fun. So I ride with a different crowd now, all on emtbs, and we all have the most enormous fun.

By the way, in answer to those that believe that emtbs are only for the sick, lame and lazy. I have seen videos of top-class competition riders that use an emtb to power up the hills so that the long descent that they want to do can be done more times in the course of the day. For them it's a tool to assist in their training. Even Danny Mac has one!

With my emtb I am fitter now than I was without it. But I am not as fit as I was before my knee problems began, but that was 7 years ago when I felt like superman!

MattFalle

Same as anything though isn't it?

road, av bod, goes out with friends who have done shed loads of training AB gets dropped

Runnerist, same situ.

Why not sit down over beer and 'scratchings and say right, from point A no point B, no assist, you shoom at C to D and I'll catch you up, D to E no assist/min power?

all about chatting as mates and coming to compromises, yah?

on the flipside I'm sure they don't want to lose your company, so why not speak to them about it?

reaperactual

Thanks for the comments Steve and MF. 👍

Steve, had a brief go and it was loads of fun, blown away by the feeling and have got nothing but good to say about ebikes now I've finally had a go and experienced it for myself. One day I will get one. My Buddy paid £2000 for that Neo and it's only done 426 miles on the display. A bargain too good to pass up which is why he went for it quickly.

You ended up with a whole other group of ebikers in the end, I suppose that's the way it works out in the long run whether intentional or not.

I've moved 10 miles away from my Buddy's, they're neighbours, grown up together and have known one another for 30 years plus.

I still drive down and meet them for our local rides nearly every weekend. Had a conversation with one Mate straight after his first ebike ride and he can also see the issues with the new situation. They said they'll ride up here and meet me but that hasn't happened in the last eight months, maybe they will with the ebikes now? Yeah, your right MF, I am going to have a proper talk to them and sure we'll find a way to work it out for now but as for the future it's anyone's guess.

Ben6899

My dad's getting one for his allotment runs. It's mostly uphill there and then he spends all day bent over and digging/lifting... last thing he wants to do is ride back home.

So an ebike is a great idea, IMO.

Each to their own.

reaperactual

Amen to that! Whatever it takes is all good. The perfect tool for the job!😎👍

photonic69

I seem to recall reading an article a few years back about the rise in bike related injuries in a sector of the population of over 60's as more and more were rediscovering the joys of cycling of their youth but were now lacking the experience and were not used to the ease at which higher speeds could be reached and thus having more accidents.
Think is was Holland or another European country.
I'm still contemplating an ebike for my commute if this post-covid weakness doesn't abate.

reaperactual

I read something similar about first introducing compulsory helmets on ski slopes somewhere many years ago. Accidents rates doubled for a while because people thought they were, (edit: invincible, thanks MF 😉) and couldn't get hurt anymore!

webboo

One of my mates who is in his 70’s was complaining about this the other day. Some of the group he goes out with on the road have got e bikes due to age related health problems. Some like my mate are still hanging on to regular bikes. The issue is usually riding in to a head wind, the guys on e bikes start using assistance and the others start to get distanced. It all comes back together when those at the front eventually realise but apparently people get a bit p*ssed off.
My Osteopath has a E Mountainbike and the group he rides with has completely split with some the non E bike riders refusing to ride with anyone on an E bike.

reaperactual

I know what you're saying. My Buddy obviously wanted to go for it and have fun but I was unavoidably holding him back and he was being polite. I don't want to be that guy that everyone has to wait for and suck the fun out of their rides with a new toy.

MattFalle

reaperactual said:

I read something similar about first introducing compulsory helmets on ski slopes somewhere many years ago. Accidents rates doubled for a while because people thought they were invisible and couldn't get hurt anymore!

ski helmets make you invisible? cool!

And all this time i've been wearing camouflage.

😀😀😀👍👍👍

steve_sordy

I haven't parted company with all of my mtb friends, I stay in frequent touch with some, but there is no doubt that "e" has caused a drifting apart. The only person on an mtb that I ride with regularly now is my grandson. He would climb over his girlfriend to get to my emtb! He has no opinions about whether its cheating or not, he just thinks they are an absolute hoot.

reaperactual

ski helmets make you invisible? cool!

And all this time i've been wearing camouflage.

😀😀😀👍👍👍

Nice one MF! Maybe they were camo helmets? 😃

reaperactual

steve_sordy said:

I haven't parted company with all of my mtb friends, I stay in frequent touch with some, but there is no doubt that "e" has caused a drifting apart. The only person on an mtb that I ride with regularly now is my grandson. He would climb over his girlfriend to get to my emtb! He has no opinions about whether its cheating or not, he just thinks they are an absolute hoot.

He had three 'cheater' remarks already but one was me, one from our other Buddy and another from a passing ebiker, I'm sure he was being sarcastic and just joking around too.

I'll save the 'have you got a sick note for that?' line for next time, not heard that one before! 😎

MattFalle

Perhaps this is where the Russians have been going wrong all this time?

Hey, Ivan, why you wear Virtus? Try Uvex - make you invisible.

reaperactual

MattFalle said:

Perhaps this is where the Russians have been going wrong all this time?

Hey, Ivan, why you wear Vertus? Try Uvex - make you invisible.

😆😂🤣🤟

reaperactual

Update: My other riding Buddy has already ordered this:-

https://www.haibike.com/gb/en/electric-bikes/electric-mountain-bikes/electric-trail-bikes/alltrail-5-275-gb659

Talk about 'keeping up with the Jones's' and if ones got something the other one has to aswell!

The adventure begins.... I'm gonna buy myself a big dirty 'asbo' dirt bike and those two can suck on my petrol fumes! 😃

Thanks to everyone for all the comments. Not so pee'd off now after you've given me a little more perspective on the situation. What will be will be, I guess. 😎🤟

loltoride

After 4 weeks riding with friends on Ebikes I finally gave up and almost on 2nd Ebike which is coming Tuesday. I spend far to much time in the gym which had reduced my riding time so would be lucky to have one ride per month. Now with the Ebike it's more like 20-70 miles per week for me it has been an absolute gamechanger.

reaperactual

Totally get it. Similar story with my Buddy's until the ebikes.

I'm not keeping up, no chance of that. Were sort of making it work. They have rode up to my local area and we meet up. I'm fresh, they get the extra miles in.

Downside, I'm downshifting to prepare for a climb and they're already in the distance. Really frustrated at first but found just settling down and sticking to my own pace works, they just wait for me at the top on those sections.

I know it's a real mismatch but they get out way more often than they used to. I'm still only joining in for one weekend ride, then too tired to join in the day after.

Debated getting an e-bike but not for long. Gone and done it now and bought my first 'leg powered' full sus frame so for now we'll have to carry on as we are for the foreseeable future.

Congrats on the e-bike @loltoride, yes a massive game changer indeed, getting out more often, going further, a brand new experience and loads of fun. Seeing it with my own eyes and can't argue with those benefits. 🤟😎

loltoride

reaperactual said:

Totally get it. Similar story with my Buddy's until the ebikes.

I'm not keeping up, no chance of that. Were sort of making it work. They have rode up to my local area and we meet up. I'm fresh, they get the extra miles in.

Downside, I'm downshifting to prepare for a climb and they're already in the distance. Really frustrated at first but found just settling down and sticking to my own pace works, they just wait for me at the top on those sections.

I know it's a real mismatch but they get out way more often than they used to. I'm still only joining in for one weekend ride, then too tired to join in the day after.

Debated getting an e-bike but not for long. Gone and done it now and bought my first 'leg powered' full sus frame so for now we'll have to carry on as we are for the foreseeable future.

Congrats on the e-bike @loltoride, yes a massive game changer indeed, getting out more often, going further, a brand new experience and loads of fun. Seeing it with my own eyes and can't argue with those benefits. 🤟😎

Thanks Reaper dont fight it mate you know your going to in the end might as well do it now, I am still very new to Ebikes but on my little knowledge I am not going back it is literally like no pain just totally enjoyment. Unfortunately I am one of those that does not ride enough or train enough so most rides are generally hard so can be hard to get out at times not anymore.

Come on Reaper do the right thing.

reaperactual

🤣🤣 Ah Mate you put forward some great point and I hear ya. An e-bike would tick a lot of boxes, all of them for the same reasons you've decided to get one.

This situation has thrown up a dilemma many years before I contemplated having to face it.

Yeah, I should get out more and have no excuses not to really, except getting motivated to get my gear on and go. With an e-bike I predict I'd happily go out way more often.

Nonetheless I made my decision after lots of thought and have spent my long term 'bike budget' on going full sus. Hopefully this middle ground upgrade will get me out more regularly and thinking this is a another small step towards an e-bike.....eventually.

I might not keep up on most of the uphills but looking forward to getting my own back on these soft a#se electric powered Mates on the rough stuff and the downhills! 🙊😀

Enjoy making the most of your e-bike and all the positives it brings Buddy. ⚡💪🤟

I'm jealous in a lot of ways but rest assured I'll be moving over to the dark side, maybe not for a while yet but it's going to happen at some point. 👊😎

loltoride

Reaper I was exactly where you are now 6-8 weeks ago then 4 rides with my mates on E bike's my calves could not take anymore. Woke up one morning sold Stumpy bought a super used Levo which is now sold as received generous offer. Tuesday getting Cube Stereo Hybrid 160 TM more bike than I need but got super deal.

I am definitely one of these soft a#se electric powered and even worst on a regular bike.

reaperactual

loltoride said:

Reaper I was exactly where you are now 6-8 weeks ago then 4 rides with my mates on E bike's my calves could not take anymore. Woke up one morning sold Stumpy bought a super used Levo which is now sold as received generous offer. Tuesday getting Cube Stereo Hybrid 160 TM more bike than I need but got super deal.

I am definitely one of these soft a#se electric powered and even worst on a regular bike.

🤣 Just got back from a ride with my two soft ar#e electric Biker Buddy's. 😯

Lol, yes the same as you, absolutely knackered but stuck to my own pace and made it up a long local climb to Peel Tower. Buzzin' to have done it and only stopped once for a breather this time. Trying to look at the positives of pushing myself and getting fitter.

We got talking to three young lads at the top, yes all of them were on e-bikes too! To be honest think I was the only one on a regular mtb today.

Coming back down on the same road section I overtook the pair of them. Great time, highest top speed ever (around 36mph) and a fitting last ride for my much loved hardtail.

@loltoride I'll bet Tuesday can't come soon enough. Guaranteed your gonna have so much fun and have definitely made a good move for obvious reasons. ⚡🤟 Getting a good deal along the way helps.

I'll check out your new Cube out of a new found interest for e-bikes.

Still not getting one for the time being but will consider stretching the 'bike budget' to the max and keep a look out for a good deal.

I reckon with the way the e-bike trend has exploded a perfect garage would include my new full sus and an e-bike too. 🤔

loltoride

Correct I can't especially whilst sitting out the weekend, not sure If deal I got great or not it seems but did not really check it out. Cube Stereo Hybrid 160 HPC TM 625 2021 (Mouth full) 8ths Old, 353 Miles, some other free bits about £200 worth - £3400 collected.

reaperactual

I'm no expert on ebikes but from what I saw it's coming up to £5k new. Fox 38's, nice, chunky and well suited for ebike duties.

If I looked up the right one, liking the powerful Magura brakes and bling rotors, important to have the best brakes possible and that seems to fit the bill.

Looks pretty cool, like the stealthy angular lines on it too.

For a bit of a comparison my Buddy paid £2000 for the second hand, two year old (carbon front triangle) Cannondale Neo, similar mileage but out of warranty period now. He did inquire with the original retail shop but apparently it wouldn't have been transferable anyway.

The other lad paid £3.5k for a new Haibike. It's an alright alloy bike too but nothing high end to speak of spec wise but it does the job I guess.

Imho you'll get more than your moneys worth out of your new ride. It is worth what you paid, twice over for the fun factor alone. ⚡🤟😎