Language, please!

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  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 17,828
    rjsterry said:

    No, of course not. Just trying to understand Like I said, architecture as a noun to describe the structure of a computer or software makes sense. Architect as a noun to describe someone who designs that structure also makes sense. It's the verb architected (presumably present tense architecting) that I find so out of kilter. Normally when a noun becomes a verb, the verb means something along the lines of 'to become [noun]' - but here it just seems to misunderstand architect as a verb in the first place. I'm also curious why the word designed was not felt to be adequate.


    Labels for things/concepts don't have to follow watertight logic, and if enough people pick up a usage (however faulty others might find it), and if it replicates out there in the wild, it's no use arguing against a usage for its lack of logic.

    But in this case, I can actually see the logic of having the same stem of both the noun and the verb for this specific sense, not least as the noun in itself is an anomoly.
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 20,552
    rjsterry said:

    No, of course not. My main objection is that it is just ugly to read and to say. But beyond that I'm trying to understand. Like I said, architecture as a noun to describe the structure of a computer or software makes sense. Architect as a noun to describe someone who designs that structure also makes sense. It's the verb architected (presumably present tense architecting) that I find so out of kilter. Normally when a noun becomes a verb, the verb means something along the lines of 'to become [noun]' - but here it just seems to misunderstand architect as a verb in the first place. I'm also curious why the word designed was not felt to be adequate.

    You just need to tolerate it in the way that people to do when architects talk about space.
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 17,828
    rjsterry said:

    My main objection is that it is just ugly to read and to say.


    Is 'protected' ugly to read and say too?
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 27,595

    rjsterry said:

    No, of course not. My main objection is that it is just ugly to read and to say. But beyond that I'm trying to understand. Like I said, architecture as a noun to describe the structure of a computer or software makes sense. Architect as a noun to describe someone who designs that structure also makes sense. It's the verb architected (presumably present tense architecting) that I find so out of kilter. Normally when a noun becomes a verb, the verb means something along the lines of 'to become [noun]' - but here it just seems to misunderstand architect as a verb in the first place. I'm also curious why the word designed was not felt to be adequate.

    You just need to tolerate it in the way that people to do when architects talk about space.
    I have a low tolerance for it at work as well. The more theoretical side of the profession loves a neologism.

    This might amuse.

    https://www.architectsjournal.co.uk/archive/top-10-neologisms

    Also on the space theme, in the Sci-Fi series The Expanse, 'Spaced' means chucked out of an airlock without a spacesuit.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 27,595

    rjsterry said:

    My main objection is that it is just ugly to read and to say.


    Is 'protected' ugly to read and say too?
    No. It's the C-tC-Td combination. Completely subjective of course.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 17,828
    rjsterry said:

    rjsterry said:

    My main objection is that it is just ugly to read and to say.


    Is 'protected' ugly to read and say too?
    No. It's the C-tC-Td combination. Completely subjective of course.

    Concocted then?

    Yes, sorry, I can't cure you of your taste, however much logic and persuasive argument I marshal.
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 17,828
    Two more words I used amongst a group of klever kidz that only one of them recognised, and she only knew one of them: inexorable and implacable.
  • never ending and remaining calm?
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 17,828
    Munsford0 said:

    never ending and remaining calm?


    Rather 'relentless' and 'not able to be placated' - must admit the latter I thought was closer to your definition till I looked it up in the OED.
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 17,828

    Munsford0 said:

    never ending and remaining calm?


    Rather 'relentless' and 'not able to be placated' - must admit the latter I thought was closer to your definition till I looked it up in the OED.

    Hmm, that's interesting, Cambridge gives it as "used to describe (someone who has) strong opinions or feelings that are impossible to change", not specifying anger.
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 27,595
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 27,595
    Which led to this madness, which I don't entirely understand.

    https://neutsch.org/Starke_Verben/A
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 17,828
    rjsterry said:

    Which led to this madness, which I don't entirely understand.

    https://neutsch.org/Starke_Verben/A


    It's all Dutch to me.
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 17,828
    rjsterry said:

    Even though I read quite a bit about language and linguistics, I'm still not sure I get 'strong' and 'weak' verbs. I know that there's the pair of 'gave/given' (strong) and 'gifted' (weak), but beyond that. erm...
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 27,595
    edited November 2022

    rjsterry said:

    Even though I read quite a bit about language and linguistics, I'm still not sure I get 'strong' and 'weak' verbs. I know that there's the pair of 'gave/given' (strong) and 'gifted' (weak), but beyond that. erm...
    Weak (regular) verbs follow the regular pattern of ending changes for past tense and past participle.

    Climb, climbed, climbed.

    Strong (irregular) verbs don't follow the pattern and tend to change the leading vowel on the past tense.

    Ride, rode, ridden

    Climb used to be strong and there's a Tennyson poem that uses "up-clomb pines" according to that thread.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 17,828
    rjsterry said:

    rjsterry said:

    Even though I read quite a bit about language and linguistics, I'm still not sure I get 'strong' and 'weak' verbs. I know that there's the pair of 'gave/given' (strong) and 'gifted' (weak), but beyond that. erm...
    Weak (regular) verbs follow the regular pattern of ending changes for past tense and past participle.

    Climb, climbed, climbed.

    Strong (irregular) verbs don't follow the pattern and tend to change the leading vowel on the past tense.

    Ride, rode, ridden

    Climb used to be strong and there's a Tennyson poem that uses "up-clomb pines" according to that thread.

    Oh, thought there was more about the sense of the verb itself, not just the formation of the tenses. If you don't know it, Pinker's book on irregular tenses and plurals is a good read, even if you don't buy into his Chomskian leanings.
  • pangolin
    pangolin Posts: 6,304
    rjsterry said:

    rjsterry said:

    I still have no idea what well-architected tool means. Does it mean well designed or well made?

    As an aside, the predictive text on my new phone has now learnt architected. Previously it identified it as misspelled.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_architecture
    Architecture to describe the structure of a computer/software is fine and has a lot of parallels with the built version. But that page doesn't even contain the word architected.

    It's also a terrible name for a product. Is it the tool that is well made or is it a tool to assess whether something is well-architected. Whatever that is.
    It's the latter, it assesses your application's architecture against best practices.

    AWS is full of terrible names for things.
    - Genesis Croix de Fer
    - Dolan Tuono
  • pangolin
    pangolin Posts: 6,304
    But they have architected themselves a very successful business.
    - Genesis Croix de Fer
    - Dolan Tuono
  • me-109
    me-109 Posts: 1,915
    Unlike Mr Musk who appear to be architecting his own downfall.
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 27,595
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition