Language, please!

1356

Comments

  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 14,646
    Underwhelmed is a word.

    But what is whelmed...perhaps a transient inflection point not worthy of use.
  • shirley_basso
    shirley_basso Posts: 6,195
    Look it up...it exists as a verb
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 14,646
    shirley_basso said:

    Look it up...it exists as a verb

    Gruntled is also a word but people don't use that any more either.

    Nor do young folks maffick around as much as they used to.
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 17,932
    First.Aspect said:

    shirley_basso said:

    Look it up...it exists as a verb

    Gruntled is also a word but people don't use that any more either.

    Nor do young folks maffick around as much as they used to.
    That's a back-formation. Disgruntled had been around since the 1630s, but gruntled only appeared 300 years later. Didn't really add a new sense to English... 'happy' or 'contented' do the job nicely.
    https://www.facebook.com/unanglaisendiois
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,866
    briantrumpet said:

    First.Aspect said:

    shirley_basso said:

    Look it up...it exists as a verb

    Gruntled is also a word but people don't use that any more either.

    Nor do young folks maffick around as much as they used to.
    That's a back-formation. Disgruntled had been around since the 1630s, but gruntled only appeared 300 years later. Didn't really add a new sense to English... 'happy' or 'contented' do the job nicely.
    I think gruntled is lower on the scale than contented.

    Try complimenting people for looking shevelled
  • capt_slog
    capt_slog Posts: 3,946
    edited February 2022
    ^^ Disgruntled, unkempt, ruthless etc are known as "orphaned words" or something similar.

    I remember Susie Dent talking about it on the Rachel Riley show


    The older I get, the better I was.

  • Mad_Malx
    Mad_Malx Posts: 5,006
    capt_slog said:

    ^^ Disgruntled, unkempt, ruthless etc are known as "orphaned words" or something similar.

    I remember Susie Dent talking about it on the Rachel Riley show

    Love Susie Dent’s twitter feed. Real knack of politely sticking the boot in without naming the target.
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 17,932
    capt_slog said:

    ^^ Disgruntled, unkempt, ruthless etc are known as "orphaned words" or something similar.

    I remember Susie Dent talking about it on the Rachel Riley show


    I wonder if 'ineffable' is another one, given we never talk about something being 'effable'.
    https://www.facebook.com/unanglaisendiois
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 14,646
    I don't find any of this explicable.
  • me-109
    me-109 Posts: 1,915
    Isn't there a thread for that? Maybe go put a link back to here?
  • Mad_Malx
    Mad_Malx Posts: 5,006
    capt_slog said:

    ^^ Disgruntled, unkempt, ruthless etc are known as "orphaned words" or something similar.

    I remember Susie Dent talking about it on the Rachel Riley show

    She’s gormful.
  • masjer
    masjer Posts: 2,567
    Mad_Malx said:

    capt_slog said:

    ^^ Disgruntled, unkempt, ruthless etc are known as "orphaned words" or something similar.

    I remember Susie Dent talking about it on the Rachel Riley show

    She’s gormful.
    I'm not sure if that would make her happy, or not.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 40,589
    Use of 'in' as a prefix - usually makes something opposite (competent / incompetent etc.). However, use it in front of flammable and it is subtly different (flammable can be set on fire / inflammable can catch fire spontaneously). Yet another quirk to trip up common sense!
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 17,932
    Pross said:

    Use of 'in' as a prefix - usually makes something opposite (competent / incompetent etc.). However, use it in front of flammable and it is subtly different (flammable can be set on fire / inflammable can catch fire spontaneously). Yet another quirk to trip up common sense!


    'In' of course, isn't always a negative... invigorate, intense, etc. - plenty of other examples.

    Interesting reversal in fortunes between the two.


    https://www.facebook.com/unanglaisendiois
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 17,932
    There's a nice parallel with 'candescent' and 'incandescent'. Both mean the same sort of thing. Again, the 'in' is not a negation.
    https://www.facebook.com/unanglaisendiois
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 14,646
    briantrumpet said:

    There's a nice parallel with 'candescent' and 'incandescent'. Both mean the same sort of thing. Again, the 'in' is not a negation.

    Sure, but one is falling out of use. I guess it will be inflammable, eventually, that burns out.
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 27,699
    I guess it's easiest to think of it as three separate prefixes meaning in, on or not, that all happen to be spelt 'in-'.

    Inquire/enquire has always bothered me. Another victim of unstressed vowels, I guess.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • thedirector135
    thedirector135 Posts: 142
    Bring back the medieval ff !!
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 27,699
    edited March 2022
    Have just read that belligerent and rebel share the same Latin root for war. Like so many things, it's bleedin' obvious when someone shows you.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 14,646
    rjsterry said:

    Have just read that belligerent and rebel share the same Latin root for war. Like so many things, it's bleedin' obvious when someone shows you.

    So mini babybel is a really aggressive cheese?
  • laurentian
    laurentian Posts: 2,389
    Anybody else heard or seen the word "upmost" being used in place of "utmost" . . . ?
    Wilier Izoard XP
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 27,699
    laurentian said:

    Anybody else heard or seen the word "upmost" being used in place of "utmost" . . . ?

    :#
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 14,646
    rjsterry said:

    laurentian said:

    Anybody else heard or seen the word "upmost" being used in place of "utmost" . . . ?

    :#
    I just watch the Aprentice episode (sorry had to endure...) where Arctic became Artic.

    Even in the pitch the contestants couldn't get the first "c" to come out.
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 17,932
    laurentian said:

    Anybody else heard or seen the word "upmost" being used in place of "utmost" . . . ?

    https://eggcorns.lascribe.net/english/1067/upmost/
    https://www.facebook.com/unanglaisendiois
  • laurentian
    laurentian Posts: 2,389
    briantrumpet said:

    laurentian said:

    Anybody else heard or seen the word "upmost" being used in place of "utmost" . . . ?

    https://eggcorns.lascribe.net/english/1067/upmost/
    So it's a word that is "almost mainstream". I just thought it was wrong!
    Wilier Izoard XP
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 17,932
    laurentian said:

    briantrumpet said:

    laurentian said:

    Anybody else heard or seen the word "upmost" being used in place of "utmost" . . . ?

    https://eggcorns.lascribe.net/english/1067/upmost/
    So it's a word that is "almost mainstream". I just thought it was wrong!

    It is still 'wrong', but eventually, if enough people use the wrong word, it becomes at least 'acceptable', however much the pedants scream. At the moment, 'upmost' is still not common enough for that.


    https://www.facebook.com/unanglaisendiois
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 27,699
    briantrumpet said:

    laurentian said:

    briantrumpet said:

    laurentian said:

    Anybody else heard or seen the word "upmost" being used in place of "utmost" . . . ?

    https://eggcorns.lascribe.net/english/1067/upmost/
    So it's a word that is "almost mainstream". I just thought it was wrong!

    It is still 'wrong', but eventually, if enough people use the wrong word, it becomes at least 'acceptable', however much the pedants scream. At the moment, 'upmost' is still not common enough for that.


    It's not pedantry to expect people to be able to speak their own language.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 14,646
    First.Aspect said:

    rjsterry said:

    laurentian said:

    Anybody else heard or seen the word "upmost" being used in place of "utmost" . . . ?

    :#
    I just watch the Aprentice episode (sorry had to endure...) where Arctic became Artic.

    Even in the pitch the contestants couldn't get the first "c" to come out.
    Apprentice.

    That was an unfortunate error, all things considered.
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 17,932
    rjsterry said:

    briantrumpet said:

    laurentian said:

    briantrumpet said:

    laurentian said:

    Anybody else heard or seen the word "upmost" being used in place of "utmost" . . . ?

    https://eggcorns.lascribe.net/english/1067/upmost/
    So it's a word that is "almost mainstream". I just thought it was wrong!

    It is still 'wrong', but eventually, if enough people use the wrong word, it becomes at least 'acceptable', however much the pedants scream. At the moment, 'upmost' is still not common enough for that.


    It's not pedantry to expect people to be able to speak their own language.

    Pragmatic pedantry knows when to give up on the incoming tide and remove your wind break to somewhere higher on the beach.

    I can see me eventually having to accept my dislike of the US usage "To protest the verdict", though I will still permit myself to say I don't like it. The modern pronunciation of 'margarine' is 'wrong', but as everyone says it with a soft G, it's now right, if you don't want people thinking you're weird.
    https://www.facebook.com/unanglaisendiois
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 20,642
    briantrumpet said:

    rjsterry said:

    briantrumpet said:

    laurentian said:

    briantrumpet said:

    laurentian said:

    Anybody else heard or seen the word "upmost" being used in place of "utmost" . . . ?

    https://eggcorns.lascribe.net/english/1067/upmost/
    So it's a word that is "almost mainstream". I just thought it was wrong!

    It is still 'wrong', but eventually, if enough people use the wrong word, it becomes at least 'acceptable', however much the pedants scream. At the moment, 'upmost' is still not common enough for that.


    It's not pedantry to expect people to be able to speak their own language.

    Pragmatic pedantry knows when to give up on the incoming tide and remove your wind break to somewhere higher on the beach.

    I can see me eventually having to accept my dislike of the US usage "To protest the verdict", though I will still permit myself to say I don't like it. The modern pronunciation of 'margarine' is 'wrong', but as everyone says it with a soft G, it's now right, if you don't want people thinking you're weird.
    Too often the test. I never know what to call the singular of dice. Either weird or wrong.

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