Why are new bikes so complicated?

wallace_and_gromit

Bit of a first world problem this one...

We've just acquired a new bike for my eldest daughter. She's 19, a promising cyclist / triathlete and has now finally outgrown her Mum's race bike that she's been using for the last couple of years (to beat her Mum in triathlons! And me, but we'll gloss over that.)

Anyway, after shopping round, the least bad value steed with decent gears and wheels came in at well north of £4k which is more than we wanted to pay, but it comes with a powermeter and Di2 so is quite good value. But we didn't really want either of these, nice though they are. There is just something not right about having to charge the bike up before you can use it. (Albeit Di2 rarely needs charging.) Maybe choice was limited because we wanted female-specific geometry but there just didn't seem to be a "decent kit but no fancy accessories" segment of the market any more.

It was with the spacers under the handlebars that things go really cockeyed. The bike has a neat looking aero cover over the spacers and if you want to change the handlebar height and keep the aero cover in place, you apparently have to dismantle the front end of the bike and chop things to size. Obviously, this is a once-only option, which reduces the flexibility one might desire in terms of bar height. (The bike is currently set up without the neat aero cover for a proper bike fit, but it looks fugly with cables here, there and everywhere.)

It's 10 years since I bought a decent road bike and in those days, £2k got you a very nice Ultegra equipped steed with some pretty decent wheels with no unwanted electrical bits or need to chop things irreversibly to size just to accommodate minor adjustments to position. (The seat post on the new bike for daughter also needed chopping to size, but that wasn't a big issue.)

So I guess the question is am I simply out of touch with the modern world or are bike manufacturers just over-complicating things because they can?

pblakeney

Yes, and yes.

wallace_and_gromit

pblakeney said:

Yes, and yes.

Commendably even-handed.

Having had my initial rant, I do rather like the WattBike and its powermeter.

ibr17xvii

Whilst integrated cockpits are nice to look at they are a pain in the backside for what should be a simple job such as yours.

shirley_basso

Is your daughter giving up cycling for horseriding?

wallace_and_gromit

shirley_basso said:

Is your daughter giving up cycling for horseriding?

I chuffing hope not. Never work with animals or children.

I don't think horses have evolved much in the last decade either.

MattFalle

Does the new bike come with a space blanket?

shirley_basso

Sorry it was a crap joke based on your repeated references to steeds.

Why not just buy a second hand bike?

wallace_and_gromit

MattFalle said:

Does the new bike come with a space blanket?

I see you’ve been receiving tutelage from the Master of Quick Wit and Ready Repartee!

wallace_and_gromit

shirley_basso said:

Sorry it was a censored joke based on your repeated references to steeds.

Why not just buy a second hand bike?

The second hand bike market for ladies the height of my daughter is not a particularly buoyant one, sadly. Give it 5 years maybe!

joeyhalloran

£4k is quite a high end bike and at that price people want the real/perceived aero benefits of integrated this and that. You can get simpler bikes but once you decide you want performance then that's the price (as well as the £££).

DI2 is great though imo, I charge mine 1 a year I think, maybe twice but shifting is always spot on, super quick and super consistent.

shirley_basso

Also v good for triathlon as you can put shifters on the aerobars and bullhorns

wallace_and_gromit

Well we’ve got the bike now, and once finally set up, it will look superb. Included in the price is a very fancy paint job which I have to confess I rather like. (Im generally of the Henry Ford school when it comes to colour schemes.) A friend has last year’s version (no Di2, slightly different wheels) and it is very fast. So I’m sure daughter will continue her recent trend of humiliating her parents in competition!

laurentian

. . . anyone else want a photo?

davidof

Man buys expensive overcomplicated bike and complains they are expensive and overcomplicated !

womack

I see where the OP is coming from. Thankfully I have enough bikes to outlast me so should never have to get involved with all this new stuff.

wallace_and_gromit

davidof said:

Man buys expensive overcomplicated bike and complains they are expensive and overcomplicated !

Woooosh!

You managed to miss the whole point of the thread, but your post did make me laugh.

daniel_b

Hydraulics, batteries, and deffo integrated cockpits/aero bits definitely complicate things massively.

Hydraulic brakes do perform well though, as does Di2 so I gather, but I sold mine.

The integrated cockpit does to my mind look stunning though, so much so I have one on order for a recently acquired bike.
As it has fully integrated cables and hydraulic brakes, I will need to engage a local bike shop to do this for me.
I don't have enough spare time to balls it up and then try and fix it

What bike did you buy, Ribble, or Canyon perhaps?

MattFalle

Or just go the simple route and build your own bike so you can choose every aspect you want.

pblakeney

Anyone successfully bought a new mechanical rim brake groupset in the past 3 months?
I doubt they exist any more. Old stock is your only chance.

MattFalle

Merlin have them

https://www.merlincycles.com/shimano-105-r7000-groupset-118524.html

daniel_b

pblakeney said:

Anyone successfully bought a new mechanical rim brake groupset in the past 3 months?
I doubt they exist any more. Old stock is your only chance.

Agreed, simply obtaining an Ultegra cassette at a semi reasonable price, AND being in stock was a proper mission, and getting hold of a 10spd 105 one with the ratios I wanted was even harder.

2014 I built up my CR1 SL - total price, as I splurged £800 on the wheels, was £2100 - carbon Ritchey everything, Ultegra 6800 groupset picked up for £450 iirc - weighing in at 7kg.
My girlfriends CR1 with more modest wheels, and a 105 5700 groupset ended up at about 1K

No internal cabling, and no hydraulics, so on the whole pretty darned easy to build up both.
I appreciate my lack of hydraulic spannering expertise is not across the board, and likely plenty of people who own these bikes already have the skills and tools to deal with, service, and fit them.

I suspect there won't be any top end frames knocking about for £500 anymore, maybe 2k at best from what I have seen, but I haven't been looking in depth.
The vast majority of the current groupsets are assigned to the manufacturers way into the future, and any that are available to us mere mortals, don't have much in the way of discount.
New Ultegra now only available in Di2 IIRC as well.

Add to that, that if the person assembling bits does not have the skills to tackle the hydraulics, and or the integrated cabling, then they will need to pay a 3rd party for the assembly, and you're probably not far from the 4k mark.

super_davo

Merlin have one option for a rim braked groupset at almost exactly double the 2016 price with everything else being out of stock. Tough luck if you want a compact...

Still, those blue passports look magnificent.

joeyhalloran

super_davo said:

Merlin have one option for a rim braked groupset at almost exactly double the 2016 price with everything else being out of stock. Tough luck if you want a compact...

Still, those blue passports look magnificent.

As much as I love a good 'look how great brexit is' bashing, I think the impact on the cycling industry is mostly due to Covid rather than Brexit. Unfortunately we'll never know the impact of one without the other though.

pblakeney

MattFalle said:

Merlin have them

https://www.merlincycles.com/shimano-105-r7000-groupset-118524.html

Buy your lower tier gear while you can then.
Some solace. I'd only looked at higher levels.

daniel_b

joeyhalloran said:

super_davo said:

Merlin have one option for a rim braked groupset at almost exactly double the 2016 price with everything else being out of stock. Tough luck if you want a compact...

Still, those blue passports look magnificent.

As much as I love a good 'look how great brexit is' bashing, I think the impact on the cycling industry is mostly due to Covid rather than Brexit. Unfortunately we'll never know the impact of one without the other though.

It's not just that though with regards to leaving the EU, it's also the fact that a massive range of retailers from across Europe that we used to be able to shop with, and gave healthy competition to the retailers here, are on the whole, no longer as available to us, or if they are, prices, once duty, and admin charges have been factored in, are not far different, plus the complication and added expense should a return be required, customs forms etc etc.

Off the top of my head, I used to shop with Mantel, Bike Discount, Bike24, Bike Components, Rose, Bikeinn, Isadore, Berk - I'm sure there were plenty of others, those are the ones I can recall this second.

Rose and one of the major German parts retailers no longer ships here, as it's simply not worth their while.
Plenty of others you can shop with, but only orders under £135.
Others you can still of course shop with, but be prepared for a circa 30% cost on top before or after you receive it.

MattFalle

pblakeney said:

MattFalle said:

Merlin have them

https://www.merlincycles.com/shimano-105-r7000-groupset-118524.html

Buy your lower tier gear while you can then.
Some solace. I'd only looked at higher levels.

Wiggle have Red and Force mechanical with caliper all available so I'm alright for the moment.

I can have a look for Record if you like (I know Chorus is available) and Dura Ace is available as well, so that's all of the groupsets worth having available.

105 detailed above because its the first that popped up on a search.

But agree completely with cassette prices - utterly stupid atm.

pblakeney

Good luck with the Record. I couldn't find any Chorus but then I'm looking at compact to make going up mountains that bit easier.
I'm managing with replacing worn parts for now but wonder how long that will last with compatibility.

MattFalle

if thats the case then just lob on any chainset you fancy the look of - no need to go matching.

or just find 'rings that will fit your crank BCD - offhand I know that Fibrelyte will match any bcd/'ring combo (eg 130BCD and 50/34 as opposed to 110BCD which is normal compact), I'm sure TA/Miche/similar will do the same.

But yup, agree: if, for some reason you'll only ride Shimano, in 3 years you'll have a choice of Tiagra or Sora only new.

First.Aspect

SRAM seem to be sticking with mechanical for the time being. And Campag as well. They will see a lift I should think, particularly SRAM because of the wheel compatability.

pblakeney

First.Aspect said:

SRAM seem to be sticking with mechanical for the time being. And Campag as well. They will see a lift I should think, particularly SRAM because of the wheel compatability.

Campagnolo are, but, and it is a big but, you need 12 speed for Chorus and above.
Have you checked out the prices of 12 speed chains, cassettes and chainrings?