Being visible at night
Comments
-
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluorescenceoblongomaculatus said:I have a profound dislike of hi viz, particularly hi viz yellow, which makes me feel slightly nauseous when I have to look at it. Anyway, I don't see how it can make you any more visible than a non hi viz bright colour, particularly not at night. It doesn't, after all, glow in the dark.
All in favour of lights, of course, and use flashing ones in the day in winter. If riding in the dark I have at least two lights front and rear, and sometimes three, if out for any length of time. As for reflectives, I recently bought a Proviz jacket for work, which this time of year is in darkness for the last hour or so. It does seem to be getting people's attention…
It is actually different.0 -
a clubbie and their funds are soon parted.....katani said:
£160 is for their top offering, the Giara. Plenty of Sportful gilets for £40-50 in retail, and I am more than convinced you would be getting one of those at LD.masjer said:
Just a quick Google, london Dynamo kit is all made by Sportful- I thought you'd like that, being Italian and all.MattFalle said:As an aside, your clubbie mates at London Dynamo insist (part of club rules) that club kit be worn at all time, much like many - if not all - other clubs.
So that's £59 for a top and £69 for a gilet that both look like they have designed by a 6 year old.
Veritable bargains said no person ever.
A quick look at Sportful gilets -Ouch £160 at Chain reaction.
I don't think you've thought through this `clubbie` hatred enough. Get rid of amateur clubs and all professional sport ceases to exist.
You won't be riding in one and the same jersey all club rides, so you need at least 3-4 of them. Add the membership fee - £70 and you are a minimum of £300 out of pocket. Cycling is ridiculously overpriced for most.
its bleedin' ridiculous - but clubbies will pay this willingly for some reason..The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
-1 -
see, told ya didn't I.webboo said:Well b@gger me. Just watching a Midsummer murder and as Barnby and Jones are walking out of the pub. Five clubies come hurtling past in matching kit nearly taking them out. Whatever next.
I blame you MF for encouraging this behaviour.
Clubbies. A danger on the roads..The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
-1 -
Do I further compound it by having a glass of brandy and watching another or should I search the internet for said club kit and buy a set.diplodicus said:
Yes that is despicable behaviourwebboo said:Well b@gger me. Just watching a Midsummer murder and as Barnby and Jones are walking out of the pub. Five clubies come hurtling past in matching kit nearly taking them out. Whatever next.
I blame you MF for encouraging this behaviour.
Who would I offend the most by either course of action.0 -
Watch Midsummer Murders whilst riding an indoor trainer on your Ultegra equipped steed in your pain cave wearing club kit, think that covers most of it.webboo said:
Who would I offend the most by either course of action.0 -
'Steed'.veronese68 said:
Watch Midsummer Murders whilst riding an indoor trainer on your Ultegra equipped steed in your pain cave wearing club kit, think that covers most of it.webboo said:
Who would I offend the most by either course of action.
That's a step too far, even for this forum.0 -
What about the Brandy or should it be Cognac or even that weird Italian stuff.0
-
I think that's what I was saying - that hi viz clothing, while seeming to be glowing in daylight, in darkness is as invisible as any colour, including black. It's not the same as phosphorescence, such as on watch dials and emergency exit signs, which can be seen in total darkness.First.Aspect said:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluorescenceoblongomaculatus said:I have a profound dislike of hi viz, particularly hi viz yellow, which makes me feel slightly nauseous when I have to look at it. Anyway, I don't see how it can make you any more visible than a non hi viz bright colour, particularly not at night. It doesn't, after all, glow in the dark.
It is actually different.
0 -
You're right, I got carried away and went too far. I'm surprised nobody flagged my post as well.First.Aspect said:
'Steed'.veronese68 said:
Watch Midsummer Murders whilst riding an indoor trainer on your Ultegra equipped steed in your pain cave wearing club kit, think that covers most of it.webboo said:
Who would I offend the most by either course of action.
That's a step too far, even for this forum.0 -
why does proviz reflect like it does out of interest?
its freakingly brilliant..The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
0 -
grazie! bambino has a provuz helmet and jacket and its bleedin' brilliant.
have heard others say what you said about breathability, so uf they could get that sorted....The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
0 -
I've got a motorcycle jacket with panels that look almost black, but reflect bright white. Not even remotely breathable I suspect.
I'd heard the same about Proviz lack of breathability but as said above it is very impressive in terms of visibility.0 -
I believe your understanding what high visibility (Hi-Viz) clothing is intended to try and achieve is perhaps misguided (this thread “Being visible at night”). Hi-Viz clothing is/was intended to make the wearer more visible during the daylight hours. This material uses the sun’s ultraviolet frequencies to achieve this, which is not readily available during the hours of darkness. Reflective materials are required after dark not Hi-Viz. Plus of course lights. This is all about being seen by other road users, particularly those in large heavy metal boxes traveling at speed. Why would you want to hide in the shadows unless you were doing something you shouldn’t?oblongomaculatus said:
I think that's what I was saying - that hi viz clothing, while seeming to be glowing in daylight, in darkness is as invisible as any colour, including black. It's not the same as phosphorescence, such as on watch dials and emergency exit signs, which can be seen in total darkness.First.Aspect said:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluorescenceoblongomaculatus said:I have a profound dislike of hi viz, particularly hi viz yellow, which makes me feel slightly nauseous when I have to look at it. Anyway, I don't see how it can make you any more visible than a non hi viz bright colour, particularly not at night. It doesn't, after all, glow in the dark.
It is actually different.
I would agree with you, Hi-Viz is not at all attractive in the beauty sense but then that’s not it’s primary goal. You’d have thought at least one of those Italian fashion houses would have come up with something desirable to look at, by now. But hay-ho that’s something for them to work on I guess.
That said, we (humans) all need to look out for each other and help ourselves to be seen, if a bit of Hi-Viz helps and I’m sure it does in daylight, then wear it! I like pedal reflectors too…
There’s nothing stylish about lying on a mortuary slab I can assure you
0 -
Nowadays, I use lights in the daytime, summer and winter. No proof, but it feels like drivers give more room whilst overtaking with a bright rear blinky. I'll probably get run over now I've said this.0
-
No, I do understand that. I was saying that people often do seem to believe that hi viz makes you more visible at night, that it literally glows in the dark, which of course it doesn't.This is a view more often held by non cyclists. In the comments sections of the Cambridge News site, for instance, a common complaint amongst the anti cyclist bigots is how few cyclists wear hi viz at night. Night is nearly always mentioned specifically. This is mentioned alongside the lack of lights (apparently every single cyclist in Cambridge is lightless at night); but reflectives are never mentioned at all.Charlie_Croker said:
I believe your understanding what high visibility (Hi-Viz) clothing is intended to try and achieve is perhaps misguided (this thread “Being visible at night”). Hi-Viz clothing is/was intended to make the wearer more visible during the daylight hours. This material uses the sun’s ultraviolet frequencies to achieve this, which is not readily available during the hours of darkness. Reflective materials are required after dark not Hi-Viz. Plus of course lights. This is all about being seen by other road users, particularly those in large heavy metal boxes traveling at speed. Why would you want to hide in the shadows unless you were doing something you shouldn’t?oblongomaculatus said:
I think that's what I was saying - that hi viz clothing, while seeming to be glowing in daylight, in darkness is as invisible as any colour, including black. It's not the same as phosphorescence, such as on watch dials and emergency exit signs, which can be seen in total darkness.First.Aspect said:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluorescenceoblongomaculatus said:I have a profound dislike of hi viz, particularly hi viz yellow, which makes me feel slightly nauseous when I have to look at it. Anyway, I don't see how it can make you any more visible than a non hi viz bright colour, particularly not at night. It doesn't, after all, glow in the dark.
It is actually different.
I would agree with you, Hi-Viz is not at all attractive in the beauty sense but then that’s not it’s primary goal. You’d have thought at least one of those Italian fashion houses would have come up with something desirable to look at, by now. But hay-ho that’s something for them to work on I guess.
That said, we (humans) all need to look out for each other and help ourselves to be seen, if a bit of Hi-Viz helps and I’m sure it does in daylight, then wear it! I like pedal reflectors too…
There’s nothing stylish about lying on a mortuary slab I can assure you
I'm also not convinced hi viz makes you any more noticeable in the daylight than an ordinary bright colour, but that's just my opinion. You're right about reflectives at night (plus good lights, of course). Most cycle clothing, even black, does have some reflective elements.
0 -
MattFalle said:
grazie! bambino has a provuz helmet and jacket and its bleedin' brilliant.
have heard others say what you said about breathability, so uf they could get that sorted...
The version of the jacket I bought recently is claimed to be breathable, unlike the original base model. I haven't got warm enough yet to say if it is or not.
Still on the subject of Proviz, the material is a little on the fragile side. I managed to catch my jacket on something, ripping a 25cm hole in the front. However, Proviz supplied (free) some patching material, and recommended the best glue to use (something made to repair wetsuits and tents) and all is now well.0 -
Do either of you ride at dusk or dawn?oblongomaculatus said:
No, I do understand that. I was saying that people often do seem to believe that hi viz makes you more visible at night, that it literally glows in the dark, which of course it doesn't. I'm also not convinced it makes you any more noticeable in the daylight than an ordinary bright colour, but that's just my opinion. You're right about reflectives at night (plus good lights, of course). Most cycle clothing, even black, does have some reflective elements.Charlie_Croker said:
I believe your understanding what high visibility (Hi-Viz) clothing is intended to try and achieve is perhaps misguided (this thread “Being visible at night”). Hi-Viz clothing is/was intended to make the wearer more visible during the daylight hours. This material uses the sun’s ultraviolet frequencies to achieve this, which is not readily available during the hours of darkness. Reflective materials are required after dark not Hi-Viz. Plus of course lights. This is all about being seen by other road users, particularly those in large heavy metal boxes traveling at speed. Why would you want to hide in the shadows unless you were doing something you shouldn’t?oblongomaculatus said:
I think that's what I was saying - that hi viz clothing, while seeming to be glowing in daylight, in darkness is as invisible as any colour, including black. It's not the same as phosphorescence, such as on watch dials and emergency exit signs, which can be seen in total darkness.First.Aspect said:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluorescenceoblongomaculatus said:I have a profound dislike of hi viz, particularly hi viz yellow, which makes me feel slightly nauseous when I have to look at it. Anyway, I don't see how it can make you any more visible than a non hi viz bright colour, particularly not at night. It doesn't, after all, glow in the dark.
It is actually different.
I would agree with you, Hi-Viz is not at all attractive in the beauty sense but then that’s not it’s primary goal. You’d have thought at least one of those Italian fashion houses would have come up with something desirable to look at, by now. But hay-ho that’s something for them to work on I guess.
That said, we (humans) all need to look out for each other and help ourselves to be seen, if a bit of Hi-Viz helps and I’m sure it does in daylight, then wear it! I like pedal reflectors too…
There’s nothing stylish about lying on a mortuary slab I can assure you
And oblongomaculatus you can't have anything other than an uninformed opinion on fluorescence. The dyes absorb and emit energy that does not interact with normal dyes, or your eyes. This means it is brighter. Literally.
Whether you think it is necessary on a sunny day is a different matter.0 -
I've got this fantastic thing fitted to my car, you guys may not have heard of them but they are absolutely brilliant for seeing things at night: headlamps!
Ideally I'd like cyclists to have lights but I've never run into anything at night thanks to headlamps.
Another top tip for you, drive at a reasonable speed where you have time to avoid obstacles - cyclists, peds, that wheelie bin Misses Miggins left out in the road, deer etc.
Oh another tip, leave at least a meter when passing cyclists, much less chance of collision.
Oh another top tip for drivers, you are in a 20mph zone, you see a cyclists doing 20mph in front, don't treat this as a red rag to a bull and force your way by with much aggressive revving before swinging in in front of the said rider and blocking him. Hang back, take it easy, if you are in a hurry you should have left earlier.BASI Nordic Ski Instructor
Instagramme2 -
^^^^
I disagree, and I don't apologise for it.
I nearly hit a cyclist. It was dark, it was raining, he(?) was head to toe in black, head down hood up, no lights, no reflectors, heading straight towards me on the wrong side of the road. Combined speed while I was legally at 30mph would have been over 45mph. It would 100% have been their fault yet I would have felt bad.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Yes; I think it's said these are the most dangerous times of day. It's hard to say one way or another if hi viz makes a cyclist any more noticeable or not. It's not a thing that's easy to test. I think at best it's marginal, particularly in an urban environment, where there's a lot of visual stimulus; movement, colour, various lights, etc. It's also possible that hi viz yellow in particular has become so ubiquitous (school children on a trip to the museum are required to wear a yellow hi viz vest these days) that the eye mentally edits it out, so to speak. Anyway, a dislike of the aesthetics tips the balance in the other direction for me. I've nothing against bright colours, far from it. One of my favourite long sleeve jerseys is a startlingly bright red Ale top. But non hi viz jerseys in yellow or green are surprisingly hard to find.First.Aspect said:
Do either of you ride at dusk or dawn?oblongomaculatus said:
No, I do understand that. I was saying that people often do seem to believe that hi viz makes you more visible at night, that it literally glows in the dark, which of course it doesn't. I'm also not convinced it makes you any more noticeable in the daylight than an ordinary bright colour, but that's just my opinion. You're right about reflectives at night (plus good lights, of course). Most cycle clothing, even black, does have some reflective elements.Charlie_Croker said:
I believe your understanding what high visibility (Hi-Viz) clothing is intended to try and achieve is perhaps misguided (this thread “Being visible at night”). Hi-Viz clothing is/was intended to make the wearer more visible during the daylight hours. This material uses the sun’s ultraviolet frequencies to achieve this, which is not readily available during the hours of darkness. Reflective materials are required after dark not Hi-Viz. Plus of course lights. This is all about being seen by other road users, particularly those in large heavy metal boxes traveling at speed. Why would you want to hide in the shadows unless you were doing something you shouldn’t?oblongomaculatus said:
I think that's what I was saying - that hi viz clothing, while seeming to be glowing in daylight, in darkness is as invisible as any colour, including black. It's not the same as phosphorescence, such as on watch dials and emergency exit signs, which can be seen in total darkness.First.Aspect said:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluorescenceoblongomaculatus said:I have a profound dislike of hi viz, particularly hi viz yellow, which makes me feel slightly nauseous when I have to look at it. Anyway, I don't see how it can make you any more visible than a non hi viz bright colour, particularly not at night. It doesn't, after all, glow in the dark.
It is actually different.
I would agree with you, Hi-Viz is not at all attractive in the beauty sense but then that’s not it’s primary goal. You’d have thought at least one of those Italian fashion houses would have come up with something desirable to look at, by now. But hay-ho that’s something for them to work on I guess.
That said, we (humans) all need to look out for each other and help ourselves to be seen, if a bit of Hi-Viz helps and I’m sure it does in daylight, then wear it! I like pedal reflectors too…
There’s nothing stylish about lying on a mortuary slab I can assure you
And oblongomaculatus you can't have anything other than an uninformed opinion on fluorescence. The dyes absorb and emit energy that does not interact with normal dyes, or your eyes. This means it is brighter. Literally.
Whether you think it is necessary on a sunny day is a different matter.0 -
davidof said:
I've got this fantastic thing fitted to my car, you guys may not have heard of them but they are absolutely brilliant for seeing things at night: headlamps!
Ideally I'd like cyclists to have lights but I've never run into anything at night thanks to headlamps.
Another top tip for you, drive at a reasonable speed where you have time to avoid obstacles - cyclists, peds, that wheelie bin Misses Miggins left out in the road, deer etc.
Oh another tip, leave at least a meter when passing cyclists, much less chance of collision.
Oh another top tip for drivers, you are in a 20mph zone, you see a cyclists doing 20mph in front, don't treat this as a red rag to a bull and force your way by with much aggressive revving before swinging in in front of the said rider and blocking him. Hang back, take it easy, if you are in a hurry you should have left earlier.
Yes, this. All this.
If a motorist can't see, in broad daylight, a 6 ft tall person, moving, directly in their field of vision, or the same person festooned with reflectives, with multiple lights of similar brightness to a car's headlights, perhaps they need to pay a bit less attention to their Twitter feed and a bit more to what's happening on the road in front of them.
Having said that, though, at night, lights, reflectives, bright colours (hi viz or not) are also helpful should there actually be a collision, so that if the driver uses the following defence… "M'lud, my client contends that it simply wasn't possible to see the cyclist he hit with his car", the prosecuting counsel can respond "He couldn't see a human being, dressed in reflective clothing, with three rear lights and three front lights fitted to his bike, one of which was casting a beam lighting up the road at least as bright as the defendant's cars' headlights? Pull the other one."
By the way as far as the common claim by motorists that most cyclists don't have lights at night is concerned, I have occasionally surveyed this, doing impromptu lights/no lights counts around Cambridge. It invariably comes out at around 85% with. Though having said that, some are so feeble they might as well not be there for all the good they're doing. The prize in that department goes to an individual I used to encounter regularly crossing one of the commons, with a red light fitted to the front of his bike.0 -
Depends where you're riding.
I ride pretty slowly through the parks in Cambridge and it's pretty terrifying trying to manouvre around all the people without lights.
What's really scary is if there is someone without lights, with a bright light behind (a car in the distance) which completely screws your vision so you can't see them until the very last minute.0 -
The last part of my working day is a two mile ride back to base, including Midsummer and Stourbridge Commons. Unlit cyclists, and pedestrians, are really hard to see on the bits where there's no street lighting. Even with a good headlight, you can't see them until you're within about 20m. So as you say, ride slower than you would in daylight.shirley_basso said:Depends where you're riding.
I ride pretty slowly through the parks in Cambridge and it's pretty terrifying trying to manouvre around all the people without lights.
What's really scary is if there is someone without lights, with a bright light behind (a car in the distance) which completely screws your vision so you can't see them until the very last minute.
Dog's though… a lot of them have those collars with flashing LED's, which I think is a brilliant invention. Wish those had been around years ago, when I had a black labrador. Then I wouldn't have kept losing track of her in the park.
0 -
Living in a rural area without any street lighting, you can't cycle at night without a bright front light as you can't see where you are going! So nighttime cyclists are usually well lit and most cycle gear has some reflective bits.
It is during the day when dark clothing makes cyclists really hard to see, often a bit of hi viz can be seen a mile or two away, even under tree cover whereas dark clothing can make cyclists almost invisible, especially in changes between open and wooded areas?
0 -
Living in a rural area without any street lighting, you can't cycle at night without a bright front light as you can't see where you are going! So nighttime cyclists are usually well lit and most cycle gear has some reflective bits.
It is during the day when dark clothing makes cyclists really hard to see, often a bit of hi viz can be seen a mile or two away, even under tree cover whereas dark clothing can make cyclists almost invisible, especially in changes between open and wooded areas.
0 -
Good point about headlights. You need them to pick out those potholes in time to avoid them!vincesummerskRoxcBTr said:Living in a rural area without any street lighting, you can't cycle at night without a bright front light as you can't see where you are going! So nighttime cyclists are usually well lit and most cycle gear has some reflective bits.
It is during the day when dark clothing makes cyclists really hard to see, often a bit of hi viz can be seen a mile or two away, even under tree cover whereas dark clothing can make cyclists almost invisible, especially in changes between open and wooded areas.
You're also right about dark clothing in the day under those conditions; however, I still think there's little or no difference between hi viz and an ordinary bright colour. What's surprising is how far away you can see a flashing light from, even when it's sunny. Literally miles, too far off to make out the cyclist or bike the light is mounted on.0 -
Got to be honest, most proper cyclists are mostly visible most of the time but cold wipers, terrible street lamps and ford transits glaring into my retinas make everything impossible to see.
If you must ride at night dont ride in the rain.0
