115th Il Lombardia, 2021- Como - Bergamo 239km **Spoilers**

blazing_saddles
blazing_saddles Posts: 22,722
in Pro race

Il Lombardia, 2021- Como - Bergamo 239km

9-10-2021 Start time 9-20am BST. (finish 4pm approx)



After the start from Como towards Cantù, the riders will tackle the Ghisallo as the first climb of the race, ascending from the Asso side to then descend to Bellagio and reach Lecco along the shore of Lake Como. Upon entering the province of Bergamo, a series of climbs begins that leads to the finish line. This section of the race is characterized by a continuo
us succession of climbs and descents with almost no flat sections in between. The riders will climb the Roncola first (Valico di Valpiana, offering gradients of up to 17%), then the climbs of Berbenno, Dossena, Zambla Alta and Passo di Ganda for a total vertical elevation that surpasses 4400m. From Ganda, the route leads to the Selvino where the classic long descent with 19 hairpin bends begins. From there, the riders will cross 9km in their approach to the city (the only flat section of the final part of the route) and begin the iconic passage through the Città Alta before the finish in Bergamo.



The final kilometres
The last kilometers head through Bergamo’s upper town, going up to Porta Garibaldi and then (crossing 200m of cobblestone terrain) to Largo Aperto. In the first part the gradients are always in excess of 10% (max 12%). Downhill the roadway is wide on a smooth surface. At 1800m from the finish, there is a sharp turn with a short bottleneck to overcome the Porta Sant’Agostino. After the last kilometer, a wide curve to the left awaits the riders before they join the straight that leads to the finish. The final straight is 800m long and 7.5m wide on an asphalt surface, downhill in the first part and then flat.



The Climbs:









Finishing Kms.



Favourites Tour of Lombardy 2021

***** Primoz Roglic, Tadej Pogacar, Julian Alaphilippe
**** Michael Woods, Remco Evenepoel, Adam Yates
*** Jonas Vingegaard, João Almeida, Sergio Higuita, Benoît Cosnefroy
** Simon Yates, David Gaudu, Romain Bardet
* Esteban Chaves, Marc Hirschi, Alejandro Valverde

Como

Como is an elegant and lively town, lying on the southwestern branch of the lake of the same name, in a unique natural landscape and surrounded by lush verdant hills. Luxurious villas, elegant buildings and ancient churches highlight the beauty of the city, while the lovely alleys and the colourful piazzas add to its charm. Como is also referred to as “the city of silk”.





Bergamo

Bergamo is a small “two-storey” city in Lombardy, with a rich history and a stunning architectural legacy. The walled upper town, Bergamo Alta, is beautifully preserved, with wonderful cobbled streets and lovely mediaeval buildings. The modern, lower town, Bergamo Bassa, is connected to the older, upper district via a funicular railway.



Cassoeula

This is a famous dish from the Lombardy region. This hearty stew features: cabbage and pork served with polenta. The ancient dish is particularly popular in the winter season, as like most stews. It stems from the peasants of Po Valley, using all the parts of the pig that the lords and nobles refused to eat. It uses the ears, tail, feet, rind and ribs of the pig. Then, it is boiled and cooked with savoy cabbage.



Bergamo: Some of their classic dishes are definitely interesting, and surely not suitable for everyone: take polenta e uccelli for example: polenta made with fontina and toma cheeses, melted butter and Parmigiano – so far so good – to which spit-roasted birds such as thrushes and larks as added.









"Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
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Comments

  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,289
    edited October 2021
    Once the sharp corners have been negotiated this should be a very, very fast finish.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • gsk82
    gsk82 Posts: 3,596
    edited October 2021
    Inrng giving away his nationality by giving only Evenepoel ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
    "Unfortunately these days a lot of people don’t understand the real quality of a bike" Ernesto Colnago
  • Dorset_Boy
    Dorset_Boy Posts: 7,546
    A good number of top riders seem to be close to top form for this.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,095
    gsk82 said:

    Inrng giving away his nationality by giving only Evenepoel ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

    I read that - of the three dqs contenders, doesn't Almeida have the best sprint?
  • jimmyjams
    jimmyjams Posts: 780
    blazing_saddles said:

    Il Lombardia, 2021- Como - Bergamo 239km

    Favourites Tour of Lombardy 2021

    ***** Primoz Roglic, Tadej Pogacar, Julian Alaphilippe
    **** Michael Woods, Remco Evenepoel, Adam Yates
    *** Jonas Vingegaard, João Almeida, Sergio Higuita, Benoît Cosnefroy
    ** Simon Yates, David Gaudu, Romain Bardet
    * Esteban Chaves, Marc Hirschi, Alejandro Valverde
    You have 16 names as possible winners, which suggests you think it very open. And which it probably is, considering you haven't mentioned 14-15 others, like Mohoric or Teuns (good chances I think), or even Masnada. As Alpecin 'Joker', Masnada may have an outsider chance, if JA struggles on the long climbs midstream and if Evenepoel and Almeida have off-days.

    I can imagine the route suiting Gaudu and I'd like to see Valverde do well, even if it is just second-place yet again. Although it is hard to see past the Slovenians.


  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,289
    kingstongraham said:

    gsk82 said:

    Inrng giving away his nationality by giving only Evenepoel ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

    I read that - of the three dqs contenders, doesn't Almeida have the best sprint?
    It is a downhill section after the last hairpin followed by a fast sweeping corner then a slight downhill (1 to 2% from memory) so I think it will be more about who can hit and maintain the fastest speed for the last kilometre than a sprint.
    I've been wrong before and will be wrong again... 😉
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • jimmyjams
    jimmyjams Posts: 780
    blazing_saddles said:

    Il Lombardia, 2021- Como - Bergamo 239km

    Bergamo: Some of their classic dishes are definitely interesting, and surely not suitable for everyone: take polenta e uccelli for example: polenta made with fontina and toma cheeses, melted butter and Parmigiano – so far so good – to which spit-roasted birds such as thrushes and larks as added.



    I think 'polenta e uccelli' was usually made with robins, whinchats (a robin-type) and thrushes (as you mentioned), but less commonly larks (as you also suggested).

    In the early 1990s, the dish (because using wild songbirds) was forbidden in Italy, although some restaurants still persisted, advertising it vaguelly as 'spit-roast with polenta'. Still, over the following 10 years or so, due to the law, the dish then gradually disappeared from menus in Bergamo and Brescia (the main areas where it was offered).

    However about 2005, poultry wholesale-importers discovered a loophole in the Italian laws which allowed songbirds from abroad to be imported and used in food preparation. This allowed restaurants to provide 'polenta e uccelli' again until 2014, when the loophole was closed.
    I doubt you can easily, legitimately, get the dish today.

    Despite having written the above, I'm not sure I fully agree with prohibitions on eating wild birds – I don't know what pigeons/rock doves taste like, but I wouldn't mind if they became popular to eat!


  • Mad_Malx
    Mad_Malx Posts: 5,181
    edited October 2021
    jimmyjams said:

    blazing_saddles said:

    Il Lombardia, 2021- Como - Bergamo 239km

    Bergamo: Some of their classic dishes are definitely interesting, and surely not suitable for everyone: take polenta e uccelli for example: polenta made with fontina and toma cheeses, melted butter and Parmigiano – so far so good – to which spit-roasted birds such as thrushes and larks as added.



    I think 'polenta e uccelli' was usually made with robins, whinchats (a robin-type) and thrushes (as you mentioned), but less commonly larks (as you also suggested).

    In the early 1990s, the dish (because using wild songbirds) was forbidden in Italy, although some restaurants still persisted, advertising it vaguelly as 'spit-roast with polenta'. Still, over the following 10 years or so, due to the law, the dish then gradually disappeared from menus in Bergamo and Brescia (the main areas where it was offered).

    However about 2005, poultry wholesale-importers discovered a loophole in the Italian laws which allowed songbirds from abroad to be imported and used in food preparation. This allowed restaurants to provide 'polenta e uccelli' again until 2014, when the loophole was closed.
    I doubt you can easily, legitimately, get the dish today.

    Despite having written the above, I'm not sure I fully agree with prohibitions on eating wild birds – I don't know what pigeons/rock doves taste like, but I wouldn't mind if they became popular to eat!


    Pigeons, fine, but robin, winchat, thrushes larks?
    Malta, for example, shoots just about anything that flies to the detriment of a potential wildlife tourism industry. Glue traps and nets are also used illegally through med regions.
  • Mad_Malx
    Mad_Malx Posts: 5,181
    pblakeney said:

    kingstongraham said:

    gsk82 said:

    Inrng giving away his nationality by giving only Evenepoel ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

    I read that - of the three dqs contenders, doesn't Almeida have the best sprint?
    It is a downhill section after the last hairpin followed by a fast sweeping corner then a slight downhill (1 to 2% from memory) so I think it will be more about who can hit and maintain the fastest speed for the last kilometre than a sprint.
    I've been wrong before and will be wrong again... 😉
    Wasn’t this the section that Uran won on a singlespeed?
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,544
    I'm surprised of the five previous winners riding, they only warrant a single star between them.
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,877
    andyp said:

    I'm surprised of the five previous winners riding, they only warrant a single star between them.

    Which of the other four deserves a star?
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,095
    edited October 2021
    pblakeney said:

    kingstongraham said:

    gsk82 said:

    Inrng giving away his nationality by giving only Evenepoel ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

    I read that - of the three dqs contenders, doesn't Almeida have the best sprint?
    It is a downhill section after the last hairpin followed by a fast sweeping corner then a slight downhill (1 to 2% from memory) so I think it will be more about who can hit and maintain the fastest speed for the last kilometre than a sprint.
    I've been wrong before and will be wrong again... 😉
    Think it's the same last few km (including the last climb, cobbles and gate) as this:

    https://youtu.be/jRdRVVq1SKc

    (Trigger warning, contains Carlton Kirby)
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,544
    edited October 2021
    TheBigBean said:

    andyp said:

    I'm surprised of the five previous winners riding, they only warrant a single star between them.

    Which of the other four deserves a star?
    Mollema is in decent form, was 7th in Emilia last week. Dan Martin was one place ahead of him in Emilia, and was up there at the ToB. Nibali won the hardest stage, by dropping everyone on a longer climb, and the overall at Sicilia. Only Pinot hasn't had a result of note in the past few weeks.

    All of them appear to be in better form than Chaves, who does get a star.
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,877
    You've missed Jakob Fuglsang
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,289
    edited October 2021
    kingstongraham said:

    pblakeney said:

    kingstongraham said:

    gsk82 said:

    Inrng giving away his nationality by giving only Evenepoel ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

    I read that - of the three dqs contenders, doesn't Almeida have the best sprint?
    It is a downhill section after the last hairpin followed by a fast sweeping corner then a slight downhill (1 to 2% from memory) so I think it will be more about who can hit and maintain the fastest speed for the last kilometre than a sprint.
    I've been wrong before and will be wrong again... 😉
    Think it's the same last few km (including the last climb, cobbles and gate) as this:

    Edit - Slightly different route at the finish as it cut out some of the fast descent and sweeping corner. According to the map above it is a pure straight finish.
    The Giro finish was 250m after a right hand bend according to this...
    (My accommodation first time there was about 500m past that finishing line).


    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • Mad_Malx
    Mad_Malx Posts: 5,181
    Mad_Malx said:

    pblakeney said:

    kingstongraham said:

    gsk82 said:

    Inrng giving away his nationality by giving only Evenepoel ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

    I read that - of the three dqs contenders, doesn't Almeida have the best sprint?
    It is a downhill section after the last hairpin followed by a fast sweeping corner then a slight downhill (1 to 2% from memory) so I think it will be more about who can hit and maintain the fastest speed for the last kilometre than a sprint.
    I've been wrong before and will be wrong again... 😉
    Wasn’t this the section that Uran won on a singlespeed?
    Memory playing tricks - I’m mixing up a tour stage win and a Lombardia podium.
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,722
    andyp said:

    TheBigBean said:

    andyp said:

    I'm surprised of the five previous winners riding, they only warrant a single star between them.

    Which of the other four deserves a star?
    Mollema is in decent form, was 7th in Emilia last week. Dan Martin was one place ahead of him in Emilia, and was up there at the ToB. Nibali won the hardest stage, by dropping everyone on a longer climb, and the overall at Sicilia. Only Pinot hasn't had a result of note in the past few weeks.

    All of them appear to be in better form than Chaves, who does get a star.
    andyp said:

    TheBigBean said:

    andyp said:

    I'm surprised of the five previous winners riding, they only warrant a single star between them.

    Which of the other four deserves a star?
    Mollema is in decent form, was 7th in Emilia last week. Dan Martin was one place ahead of him in Emilia, and was up there at the ToB. Nibali won the hardest stage, by dropping everyone on a longer climb, and the overall at Sicilia. Only Pinot hasn't had a result of note in the past few weeks.

    All of them appear to be in better form than Chaves, who does get a star.
    There's only so much I can do, putting a thread together in 15 minutes, or did you think I spent the afternoon mulling over the various permutations?
    Besides, a few omissions lead to posts such as yours, which in turn triggers a bit of debate.
    Job done if that happens.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,095
    edited October 2021
    pblakeney said:

    kingstongraham said:

    pblakeney said:

    kingstongraham said:

    gsk82 said:

    Inrng giving away his nationality by giving only Evenepoel ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

    I read that - of the three dqs contenders, doesn't Almeida have the best sprint?
    It is a downhill section after the last hairpin followed by a fast sweeping corner then a slight downhill (1 to 2% from memory) so I think it will be more about who can hit and maintain the fastest speed for the last kilometre than a sprint.
    I've been wrong before and will be wrong again... 😉
    Think it's the same last few km (including the last climb, cobbles and gate) as this:

    Edit - Slightly different route at the finish as it cut out some of the fast descent and sweeping corner. According to the map above it is a pure straight finish.
    The Giro finish was 250m after a right hand bend according to this...
    (My accommodation first time there was about 500m past that finishing line).


    No, if you watch it, it's straight for at least the last 700m in the video.

    That map you posted looks like the 2016 lombardia finish, which was similar but had the right turn. Tomorrow's is the same finish as stage 15 from the 2017 giro.

    (If you got the map from cyclingstage, it seems to be wrong. https://archivio.giroditalia.it/eng/stage/stage-15-2017/ gives the below)


  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,461
    I feel like I'm currently annoyingly close but just a bit too far away to make a trip to watch (3 hour train journey from Venice).
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,289
    kingstongraham said:

    pblakeney said:

    kingstongraham said:

    pblakeney said:

    kingstongraham said:

    gsk82 said:

    Inrng giving away his nationality by giving only Evenepoel ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

    I read that - of the three dqs contenders, doesn't Almeida have the best sprint?
    It is a downhill section after the last hairpin followed by a fast sweeping corner then a slight downhill (1 to 2% from memory) so I think it will be more about who can hit and maintain the fastest speed for the last kilometre than a sprint.
    I've been wrong before and will be wrong again... 😉
    Think it's the same last few km (including the last climb, cobbles and gate) as this:

    Edit - Slightly different route at the finish as it cut out some of the fast descent and sweeping corner. According to the map above it is a pure straight finish.
    The Giro finish was 250m after a right hand bend according to this...
    (My accommodation first time there was about 500m past that finishing line).


    No, if you watch it, it's straight for at least the last 700m in the video.

    Yeah it was confusing from the video cuts. An incorrect map doesn't help. 😉
    Quite probably the same finish then. Still reckon it will be fast.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,544
    TheBigBean said:

    You've missed Jakob Fuglsang

    I haven't, he's not riding as he has a broken collarbone.
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,722
    Odd to be watching the roll out of Lomardia. Dan Lloyd and Rob Htach on comms again.
    Eurosport have played a blinder keeping Kirby away from the WCRR, Paris-Roubaix and now Lombardia.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 14,646
    So pretty, after watching the mud and fields of northern France last weekend
    Warning No formatter is installed for the format
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,877
    edited October 2021
    andyp said:

    TheBigBean said:

    You've missed Jakob Fuglsang

    I haven't, he's not riding as he has a broken collarbone.
    Fair point. I read your original post as last five winners. I should have known better than to query your encyclopedic knowledge.

    I'm still not sure any are star deserving, but I'm happy to be proven wrong.
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,691
    This was (is?) always one of dish dash's favourites...
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    Daughter’s birthday party today so enjoy it lads.
    _
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,722
    A nasty crash for Cosnefroy.
    Hard to tell from the Helicopter shots but it looks like he took the brunt on his shoulder, which now looks like the piece of steak I am having this evening.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,877
    Have I missed anything or is starting to watch in 20 mins a solid plan?
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,691
    edited October 2021
    No, all very chilled so far apart from 2 random single person crashes. P'rhaps beginning to wind up a bit now.

    111km @ 3.50
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,544
    TheBigBean said:

    andyp said:

    TheBigBean said:

    You've missed Jakob Fuglsang

    I haven't, he's not riding as he has a broken collarbone.
    Fair point. I read your original post as last five winners. I should have known better than to query your encyclopedic knowledge.

    I'm still not sure any are star deserving, but I'm happy to be proven wrong.
    Lol. Not sure I have encyclopaedic knowledge. :D

    I think you are probably right on the star ratings, but let's see. You haven't missed anything yet, bar Cosnefroy's crash.

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