Where Has It Gone?

womack

Ok, I'm by no means a youngster but last year at 64 I was still managing average circa 16 mph without busting a gut, coming home at the end of a ride still reasonably fresh.

Roll the clock on one year I am struggling at 13 mph and the legs just seem to have gone.

To the best of my knowledge not had covid, but who knows?

Have other people "reached a point" where it just went?

Should I persevere or sell all my bikes and go electric.

Depressing to be honest, still yet to do my once a year 100 miler, dreading to think how long it's going to take.

pblakeney

I posted something along these lines in the Trivial Annoyances thread.
Make the most of what you can, when you can. It is a downward spiral.

pblakeney said:

Not so much an annoyance, just a window into a sad future.
Out for a cafe run today with a couple of older guys that I’ve been riding with for years. The cafe run used to be 45 miles at @ 16 mph. Today’s route was 30 miles for me at 14 mph in z0. Bear in mind I did an extra 6 miles to meet them and those 6 miles will have raised the figures.

Don’t get me wrong, I hope I am able to do that when I am in my 70s but it was a reminder that ageing catches us all up at some point.

womack

pblakeney said:

I posted something along these lines in the Trivial Annoyances thread.
Make the most of what you can, when you can. It is a downward spiral.

pblakeney said:

Not so much an annoyance, just a window into a sad future.
Out for a cafe run today with a couple of older guys that I’ve been riding with for years. The cafe run used to be 45 miles at @ 16 mph. Today’s route was 30 miles for me at 14 mph in z0. Bear in mind I did an extra 6 miles to meet them and those 6 miles will have raised the figures.

Don’t get me wrong, I hope I am able to do that when I am in my 70s but it was a reminder that ageing catches us all up at some point.

Thanks for that, I suppose we all have to realise that at some point we will "fall off the cliff"

Planning my annual 100 miler for this Saturday, I'll post the depressing figures!

I'll see you at the electric bike shop one day!

N0bodyOfTheGoat

Has the speed loss mainly happened since your Covid jabs?

I'm 47 and especially since the second jab a month ago, my legs very rarely feel as good as they did before my first jab in April. My side effects after each jab weren't pleasant, especially after the first. Often, tempo feels like threshold.

womack

N0bodyOfTheGoat said:

Has the speed loss mainly happened since your Covid jabs?

I'm 47 and especially since the second jab a month ago, my legs very rarely feel as good as they did before my first jab in April. My side effects after each jab weren't pleasant, especially after the first. Often, tempo feels like threshold.

That's an interesting point about the jabs.

I always carry on cycling through winter and my speeds are usually slower then, heavier winter bike, taking more care on wet roads etc and my averages were about normal for winter.

Getting my good bike out (spring time) did coincide with having my covid jabs funnily enough. My good bike summer averages are now less than my winter averages so I wonder if there is something in the covid jab theory?

I didn't suffer any side effects at the time but who knows what is going on in there.

Previously I could ride "all day" no problem but now it just seems hard work.

webboo

I was 66 on June 9th. On June 8th I did the Yorkshire Wolds challenge, l rode 150 miles in 9hr 43 minutes ave speed 15.47 mph 7,852feet of climbing.
Since then I’ve managed a 67 miles ride at 18 +mph. What I have to do to maintain this, is one or two interval sessions a week as well as the longer rides. I tend to do most of my riding on my own although I do go out with a group once a week and the average speed is embarrassingly slow but I blame that on them all being younger than me.
As I also rock climb although I haven’t been on real rock for a couple of months, I train on my garage climbing wall 3 times a week. Having to use a lot of core strength to keep my feet on a 40 degree overhanging wall, seems to work my legs harder than cycling.
I read that once you get in your mid 50’s you have to work much harder to stay where you are and you need to do something to avoid muscles wasting.
So that’s why I do the intervals and occasionally going up hill in a big gear.
However that’s this week next week it might all go to sh!t

womack

webboo said:

I was 66 on June 9th. On June 8th I did the Yorkshire Wolds challenge, l rode 150 miles in 9hr 43 minutes ave speed 15.47 mph 7,852feet of climbing.
Since then I’ve managed a 67 miles ride at 18 +mph. What I have to do to maintain this, is one or two interval sessions a week as well as the longer rides. I tend to do most of my riding on my own although I do go out with a group once a week and the average speed is embarrassingly slow but I blame that on them all being younger than me.
As I also rock climb although I haven’t been on real rock for a couple of months, I train on my garage climbing wall 3 times a week. Having to use a lot of core strength to keep my feet on a 40 degree overhanging wall, seems to work my legs harder than cycling.
I read that once you get in your mid 50’s you have to work much harder to stay where you are and you need to do something to avoid muscles wasting.
So that’s why I do the intervals and occasionally going up hill in a big gear.
However that’s this week next week it might all go to sh!t

I'm impressed with your 150 miler!

My other exercise in-between cycling is running to try and keep my muscles as strong as poss.

I also do some weights in the garage, nothing like a proper gym set up, but has always been sufficient.

With the exception of walking I am going to have a few days off this week and rest up, hopefully weather permitting get my 100 miler done this weekend and see what comes out in the wash!

Munsford0

I'll be 64 in a couple of months. No falling off a cliff for me, instead I've noticed a gradual but inexorable decline in average speed year on year. Losing muscle mass generally too. I can still ride reasonable distances though, just recovery takes a bit longer.
Not losing any sleep over it though, I just accept it's part of the ageing process.

pblakeney

With reference to my elderly friends, one of them did the 3 x Ventoux in his late 60s and the other did Sa Colabra and the hilly section of the 312 for his 70th so they were no plodders. The speed decrease was gradual in their late 60s, but off a cliff in their 70s. Everyone is different which is a hope and a blessing.
Vaccines are a concern. I am debating ageing v vaccines (zero side effects felt otherwise) for my current endurance suffering (hilly 50 mile +). Speed is as good/bad as ever.

webboo

I find the trick is move house every few years so you can blame your slower average speed on the new terrain.
I have had both jabs, felt nothing at all after first one. Second one felt cr#p for a week. I had muscle ache while riding but it didn’t seem to slow me down just felt really uncomfortable.
Feel crap to day but that’s due to the missus getting me to go for a walk at 8:00 last night in the monsoon . As well as joining her on a low carb, high protein diet.

harry-s

My experiences and age are similar to webboo's. I managed RL100 in 4:30 (if that's any sort of benchmark...)
There's no hiding from the power meter and it's not hard to spot a steady decline, but it's not surprising really. The 'matched rides' function on strava is good at pointing this out. Relentlessly.
It's a decision between training harder to keep at the same level of fitness, or train the same and see my fitness levels go down, for me anyway. Having the time can be an issue.
Weights and muscle mass are a bit of a hot potato when it comes to opinions on training. If you have the time and facilities, why not? I haven't noticed much of a change in recovery time, and suspect that is probably controlled by general fitness and how tough the ride/workout is.

dabber

On my 70th I did the Tourmalet and the next day Luz Ardiden (both of which I thoroughly enjoyed). The following year I did Hautacam (which I never enjoyed) and Cirque de Troumouse (which was beautiful).
In 2019 I had a minor pulmonary embolism and ended upon blood thinners for a few months. No lasting damage done. This made me reassess what I wanted from cycling. I decided that rather than trying go balls out (relatively) everywhere I'd change my approach.
I dug out my old mountain bike which I'd only ever used for family type outing and not used for many years. I enjoyed it and ended up buying a full suss mtb.

I'm currently 74.
Now I ride pretty much 100% off road and average speeds are irrelevant.
the challenge now is improving my skills and tackling more and more challenging trails. There's obviously a danger in doing that but I have to have a challenge of some type. The nice thing is I still regularly get Strava pbs on the trails.

pblakeney

^^^^ I've went the opposite. Away from the dangers of injuring myself on challenging off road to plodding up iconic climbs. Each to their own. 😉

ugo.santalucia

To the OP.
Clearly this hasn't happened overnight and most likely you've gone through a few weeks/months of inactivity, then you retrieved the bike from the garage and realised you are 3 mph slower than you used to be last year...
Is this a fair reflection?

womack

No Ugo, as posted above I ride all through winter and my winter average was on par with last winter.

Just seems these last few months, since spring, that I appear to have "no legs"

And maybe it is a coincidence but it does coincide with having my jabs.

twotoebenny

thought this was a thread about the football being lost as its not "come home"

ugo.santalucia

womack said:

No Ugo, as posted above I ride all through winter and my winter average was on par with last winter.

Just seems these last few months, since spring, that I appear to have "no legs"

And maybe it is a coincidence but it does coincide with having my jabs.

It could be, but 3 mph is a big drop. A vaccine will have a very temporary effect on your performance, as your body is busy making antibodies and such stuff... but after a week you should really be back to where you were.
Should your demographic not have been vaccinated in the winter? I'm a lot younger and got my first in March

womack

February for first, May for second.

ugo.santalucia

SO when did the sudden lack of fitness actually happen?

womack

Put the winter bike away end of March, got the best bike out and from then on I have just been rubbish to be honest!

A good 2 mph slower than last year initially now stretching out to 3 mph slower as each week passes.

If I get any slower I'll meet myself coming back!!

The really bizarre thing though, on short bursts I can still do it, a local Strava sprint segment I am 20th fastest out of 2500 this year at 65 years old, what I can't seem to do anymore is a prolonged effort.

ugo.santalucia

Well, then it has nothing to do with the vaccine, if it happened weeks after your first shot.
If you can do the hard efforts but you are slower on a long ride average speed, I wouldn't worry... sounds like you are probably low in glycogen or a bit tired

pangolin

womack said:

Put the winter bike away end of March, got the best bike out and from then on I have just been rubbish to be honest!

A good 2 mph slower than last year initially now stretching out to 3 mph slower as each week passes.

If I get any slower I'll meet myself coming back!!

The really bizarre thing though, on short bursts I can still do it, a local Strava sprint segment I am 20th fastest out of 2500 this year at 65 years old, what I can't seem to do anymore is a prolonged effort.

Silly question but you've checked the bike over right?

pblakeney

It all sounds familiar. May I ask, how is your hydration?
As before or changed?

blueturtle

There are several things at play here. They are, your mindset,your mental ability, your determination,your cardiovascular system and the company you keep! It is not all downhill if you dont want it to be. I am going faster now than at any point in the last 10 years. In spite of breaking my shoulder in four places breaking my elbow and having a new hip, yes all cycling related except for the new hip. I average 8500 miles per year @ approx 16.2 mph but this year my average is now 16.7 mph, Saturday training runs average circa 65 miles @20+ mph with the young lads in my club. The rest of the week i am out two or three times doing 150-200 miles per week. To sum things up as long as your health is up to it there is no reason to slow down, most of the negativity is in your head and by the way i am a young 75.

womack

To hopefully answer all in one post.

Bike is fine, everything works as should do. Just an 11 speed Ultegra, pretty basic, changes gear easy, nothing on drivetrain worn, new chain / cassette quite recently, no brake rub, wheels true. No BB play.

Hydration no different than before although never been a great water drinker.

The tired bit is interesting, don't sleep many hours at night but seem to be pretty good at falling asleep in a chair during the day!

Company, always been a solo rider.

Mindset determination. Still very much enjoy cycling so I don't think a mental issue.

pblakeney

womack said:

To hopefully answer all in one post.

Bike is fine, everything works as should do. Just an 11 speed Ultegra, pretty basic, changes gear easy, nothing on drivetrain worn, new chain / cassette quite recently, no brake rub, wheels true. No BB play.

Hydration no different than before although never been a great water drinker.

The tired bit is interesting, don't sleep many hours at night but seem to be pretty good at falling asleep in a chair during the day!

Company, always been a solo rider.

Mindset determination. Still very much enjoy cycling so I don't think a mental issue.

I was looking for commonality. I now need around 10 pints of water even on a rest day. More with exercise. Just me then.

Next theory. Lack of distance cycling due to travel restrictions results in difficulty riding long distances. Not to be totally unexpected?

womack

pblakeney said:

womack said:

To hopefully answer all in one post.

Bike is fine, everything works as should do. Just an 11 speed Ultegra, pretty basic, changes gear easy, nothing on drivetrain worn, new chain / cassette quite recently, no brake rub, wheels true. No BB play.

Hydration no different than before although never been a great water drinker.

The tired bit is interesting, don't sleep many hours at night but seem to be pretty good at falling asleep in a chair during the day!

Company, always been a solo rider.

Mindset determination. Still very much enjoy cycling so I don't think a mental issue.

I was looking for commonality. I now need around 10 pints of water even on a rest day. More with exercise. Just me then.

Next theory. Lack of distance cycling due to travel restrictions results in difficulty riding long distances. Not to be totally unexpected?

When you say now need 10, is that something that has changed / increased over the years for you?

To be honest have been told I don't take enough water before, just in general, not even to do with cycling / exercise.

I have kept cycling all through lockdown (retired). Last year did just over 5000 miles.

The only difference this year is I usually have a month's cycling in Portugal February / March time but obviously not happening at the moment. All I usually do with that month is one hill after another (many hills within easy reach). Never been a great climber so practice a lot when there.

I did try and replicate that month by doing hills in my locality in the UK.

pblakeney

womack said:

pblakeney said:

womack said:

To hopefully answer all in one post.

Bike is fine, everything works as should do. Just an 11 speed Ultegra, pretty basic, changes gear easy, nothing on drivetrain worn, new chain / cassette quite recently, no brake rub, wheels true. No BB play.

Hydration no different than before although never been a great water drinker.

The tired bit is interesting, don't sleep many hours at night but seem to be pretty good at falling asleep in a chair during the day!

Company, always been a solo rider.

Mindset determination. Still very much enjoy cycling so I don't think a mental issue.

I was looking for commonality. I now need around 10 pints of water even on a rest day. More with exercise. Just me then.

Next theory. Lack of distance cycling due to travel restrictions results in difficulty riding long distances. Not to be totally unexpected?

When you say now need 10, is that something that has changed / increased over the years for you?

Sudden constant dry lips since the spring. A sign that a drink is required.
This is confirmed by the standard urine test.

webboo

Going back to your original post you say that you can ride 16 mph without busting a gut and you arrive home reasonably fresh. I wonder if this is the problem. You are not pushing yourself enough and therefore de training. It’s like you are just going on a recovery ride.
As everyone myself included says you have to work harder when you get older. I rarely finish a long ( over 100k ) solo ride not feeling battered as I tend increase the effort towards the end.
I think you are going to have to rethink things or power up that motor

webboo

pblakeney said:

womack said:

pblakeney said:

womack said:

To hopefully answer all in one post.

Bike is fine, everything works as should do. Just an 11 speed Ultegra, pretty basic, changes gear easy, nothing on drivetrain worn, new chain / cassette quite recently, no brake rub, wheels true. No BB play.

Hydration no different than before although never been a great water drinker.

The tired bit is interesting, don't sleep many hours at night but seem to be pretty good at falling asleep in a chair during the day!

Company, always been a solo rider.

Mindset determination. Still very much enjoy cycling so I don't think a mental issue.

I was looking for commonality. I now need around 10 pints of water even on a rest day. More with exercise. Just me then.

Next theory. Lack of distance cycling due to travel restrictions results in difficulty riding long distances. Not to be totally unexpected?

When you say now need 10, is that something that has changed / increased over the years for you?

Sudden constant dry lips since the spring. A sign that a drink is required.
This is confirmed by the standard urine test.

If I was needing to drink 10 pints of water a day with dry lips. I would heading to the GP to get checked out for Diabetes.

pblakeney

webboo said:

pblakeney said:

womack said:

pblakeney said:

womack said:

To hopefully answer all in one post.

Bike is fine, everything works as should do. Just an 11 speed Ultegra, pretty basic, changes gear easy, nothing on drivetrain worn, new chain / cassette quite recently, no brake rub, wheels true. No BB play.

Hydration no different than before although never been a great water drinker.

The tired bit is interesting, don't sleep many hours at night but seem to be pretty good at falling asleep in a chair during the day!

Company, always been a solo rider.

Mindset determination. Still very much enjoy cycling so I don't think a mental issue.

I was looking for commonality. I now need around 10 pints of water even on a rest day. More with exercise. Just me then.

Next theory. Lack of distance cycling due to travel restrictions results in difficulty riding long distances. Not to be totally unexpected?

When you say now need 10, is that something that has changed / increased over the years for you?

Sudden constant dry lips since the spring. A sign that a drink is required.
This is confirmed by the standard urine test.

If I was needing to drink 10 pints of water a day with dry lips. I would heading to the GP to get checked out for Diabetes.

Checked, and clear.
10 pints removes the licking lips tendency, but is required.