TDF 2021: Stage 7, Vierzon > Le Creusot 249.1 km **Spoilers**

Pross

TheBigBean said:

Pross said:

TheBigBean said:

It's a bike race. Movistar don't have to stand by and applaud while another rider goes up the road.

The only logical reason for Ineos, Movistar and EF - Education to not chase the breakaway was that they didn't consider them to be a threat. As soon as someone who they did consider to be a threat attacks, they chased.

If they're doing it for their own benefit then it's fine but they did the same at the Vuelta - it's negative riding against a former employee. Why not be more positive and try to get someone to go with him and help capitalise on Pogacar having no team instead?

I imagine they are happy to hurt Pogacar if they can, but the primary objective will be to get close to the podium. Mas is 14s behind Carapaz and Lopez is 3.5 mins behind. I really don't understand why it would be sensible to give Carapaz some time.

So get Mas to follow the Carapaz attack and work together. Movistar are an incredibly negative team, they've tended to have several GC contenders who aren't quite the favourite over the years and never seem to make an attempt to make it count. When they do ride it seems to be just to cause general chaos or to annoy someone they don't like.

Pross

ridgerider said:

I love a grudge, especially when served cold.

And remember, they didn't do it for our enjoyment, but so they could simply savour the thought of the spoiling the day for Ineos.

And on another matter, I had thought about not picking Roglic for PTP GC as I am getting the feeling he is a bit of a faller. But could not think of what the JV Plan B might be. Still not quite sure.

Sultan Vingegaard surely?

andyp

Pross said:

TheBigBean said:

Pross said:

TheBigBean said:

It's a bike race. Movistar don't have to stand by and applaud while another rider goes up the road.

The only logical reason for Ineos, Movistar and EF - Education to not chase the breakaway was that they didn't consider them to be a threat. As soon as someone who they did consider to be a threat attacks, they chased.

If they're doing it for their own benefit then it's fine but they did the same at the Vuelta - it's negative riding against a former employee. Why not be more positive and try to get someone to go with him and help capitalise on Pogacar having no team instead?

I imagine they are happy to hurt Pogacar if they can, but the primary objective will be to get close to the podium. Mas is 14s behind Carapaz and Lopez is 3.5 mins behind. I really don't understand why it would be sensible to give Carapaz some time.

So get Mas to follow the Carapaz attack and work together. Movistar are an incredibly negative team, they've tended to have several GC contenders who aren't quite the favourite over the years and never seem to make an attempt to make it count. When they do ride it seems to be just to cause general chaos or to annoy someone they don't like.

Except when Carapaz and Landa blew the Giro apart in 2019 and the former went on to win it.

amrushton

They don't like Carapaz but don't like any leader when they have 3. Pogacar needs to get the knife in this w/e and make sure Roglic won't suddenly get better. Better Roglic goes home really and go for the Vuelta. Shaping up that he will never win the tdf

womack

mididoctors said:

Pross said:

Does Movistar have a big market in Slovenia? That's twice they've helped out the Slovenian favourites when they were under pressure

Beef with carapaz ?.

Do you have the recipe?

ridgerider

JV/Vingegaard are giving Podacar a minute and half head start.

I know he is a Viking, but is he that good...?!

blazing_saddles

TheBigBean said:

Pross said:

TheBigBean said:

It's a bike race. Movistar don't have to stand by and applaud while another rider goes up the road.

The only logical reason for Ineos, Movistar and EF - Education to not chase the breakaway was that they didn't consider them to be a threat. As soon as someone who they did consider to be a threat attacks, they chased.

If they're doing it for their own benefit then it's fine but they did the same at the Vuelta - it's negative riding against a former employee. Why not be more positive and try to get someone to go with him and help capitalise on Pogacar having no team instead?

I imagine they are happy to hurt Pogacar if they can, but the primary objective will be to get close to the podium. Mas is 14s behind Carapaz and Lopez is 3.5 mins behind. I really don't understand why it would be sensible to give Carapaz some time.

Your post sums up rather well, the kind of tactical thinking that has applied at the Tour for the past 20 years or more...
....unfortunately.

thejimmymethod

Well, something happened during the stage. Riders are Valverde, Kwiatkowski, and Mas. #TDF2021pic.twitter.com/vmx1AI0DLk

— CyclingTips (@cyclingtips) July 2, 2021

Some differences of opinion between Ineos and Movistar (appears mostly from their side) at stage end

blazing_saddles

thejimmymethod said:

Well, something happened during the stage. Riders are Valverde, Kwiatkowski, and Mas. #TDF2021pic.twitter.com/vmx1AI0DLk

— CyclingTips (@cyclingtips) July 2, 2021

Some differences of opinion between Ineos and Movistar (appears mostly from their side) at stage end

Mas could well be in trouble for the laying on of hands, but this being the Tour, either both will get punished, or neither.

Pross

andyp said:

Pross said:

TheBigBean said:

Pross said:

TheBigBean said:

It's a bike race. Movistar don't have to stand by and applaud while another rider goes up the road.

The only logical reason for Ineos, Movistar and EF - Education to not chase the breakaway was that they didn't consider them to be a threat. As soon as someone who they did consider to be a threat attacks, they chased.

If they're doing it for their own benefit then it's fine but they did the same at the Vuelta - it's negative riding against a former employee. Why not be more positive and try to get someone to go with him and help capitalise on Pogacar having no team instead?

I imagine they are happy to hurt Pogacar if they can, but the primary objective will be to get close to the podium. Mas is 14s behind Carapaz and Lopez is 3.5 mins behind. I really don't understand why it would be sensible to give Carapaz some time.

So get Mas to follow the Carapaz attack and work together. Movistar are an incredibly negative team, they've tended to have several GC contenders who aren't quite the favourite over the years and never seem to make an attempt to make it count. When they do ride it seems to be just to cause general chaos or to annoy someone they don't like.

Except when Carapaz and Landa blew the Giro apart in 2019 and the former went on to win it.

Exception that proves the rule and all that - noticeable how Carapaz then jumped ship!

TheBigBean

Pross said:

TheBigBean said:

Pross said:

TheBigBean said:

It's a bike race. Movistar don't have to stand by and applaud while another rider goes up the road.

The only logical reason for Ineos, Movistar and EF - Education to not chase the breakaway was that they didn't consider them to be a threat. As soon as someone who they did consider to be a threat attacks, they chased.

If they're doing it for their own benefit then it's fine but they did the same at the Vuelta - it's negative riding against a former employee. Why not be more positive and try to get someone to go with him and help capitalise on Pogacar having no team instead?

I imagine they are happy to hurt Pogacar if they can, but the primary objective will be to get close to the podium. Mas is 14s behind Carapaz and Lopez is 3.5 mins behind. I really don't understand why it would be sensible to give Carapaz some time.

So get Mas to follow the Carapaz attack and work together. Movistar are an incredibly negative team, they've tended to have several GC contenders who aren't quite the favourite over the years and never seem to make an attempt to make it count. When they do ride it seems to be just to cause general chaos or to annoy someone they don't like.

He had a team to help him, he didn't have to follow the attack.

No_Ta_Doctor

Mmmm... Handbags.
Mas really shouldn't get involved when two world champions are having a discussion. Will be interesting to see if the camera footage gets broadcast...

TheBigBean

blazing_saddles said:

TheBigBean said:

Pross said:

TheBigBean said:

It's a bike race. Movistar don't have to stand by and applaud while another rider goes up the road.

The only logical reason for Ineos, Movistar and EF - Education to not chase the breakaway was that they didn't consider them to be a threat. As soon as someone who they did consider to be a threat attacks, they chased.

If they're doing it for their own benefit then it's fine but they did the same at the Vuelta - it's negative riding against a former employee. Why not be more positive and try to get someone to go with him and help capitalise on Pogacar having no team instead?

I imagine they are happy to hurt Pogacar if they can, but the primary objective will be to get close to the podium. Mas is 14s behind Carapaz and Lopez is 3.5 mins behind. I really don't understand why it would be sensible to give Carapaz some time.

Your post sums up rather well, the kind of tactical thinking that has applied at the Tour for the past 20 years or more...
....unfortunately.

Yes, it is a standard issue tactic (except letting a big group escape) which is why I am surprised everyone is querying it.

If T-mobile had followed it in 2006, they would have won the tour. Instead they left it to the yellow jersey who, after losing an eqaul amount of time, was still ahead of them.

above_the_cows

Lanterne_Rogue said:

Worst possible time to get dragged into a meeting...

I just got out of one, looks like I missed all the tasty action.

No_Ta_Doctor

In Jumbo-Visma news (can we not call them JV please, makes me think of Vaughters, and nobody needs that), DS had a short interview with dk TV.
Vingegaard is "here to learn, but he's learning really fast". New strat to be decided tonight.

My interpretation: Vingegaard is being protected from pressure, will likely get some support and a free role. They're grooming him for the future, keeping expectations low and emphasising gaining GT experience.

Van Aert was asked if he was ready for a GC run, answered with a curt, snorted "No".

Van Aert could be the fly in the soup for Cav's green/Merckx shout. He's a loose cannon now. Depends where he decides to spend his energy. If he's drafted to help Vingegaard then maybe he rides sprints as well, I doubt he's up for riding all out for a kid riding to learn. Or he might get a stage hunting role for lumpy days. At any rate, Jumbo-Visma look like they're maybe going to head down the the same road as Ineos and rebrand as chaos attackers.

above_the_cows

Pross said:

So get Mas to follow the Carapaz attack and work together. Movistar are an incredibly negative team, they've tended to have several GC contenders who aren't quite the favourite over the years and never seem to make an attempt to make it count. When they do ride it seems to be just to cause general chaos or to annoy someone they don't like.

No_Ta_Doctor

Their chaos stuff just seems to fizzle out though, doesn't it? Only the vindictive petty stuff sticks.
How often have we seen them drilling it at the front to just evaporate when the racing gets real?

kingstongraham

So their aims are, in order:

1 stop carapaz
2 the team prize no-one else cares about
3 getting as high on gc as possible
4 stage wins from riders who then go somewhere else

amrushton

Remember when they punished Nairo? He was supposed to be one of the leaders but they dropped him. Chris Horner will no doubt talk about the tactics. He isn't a fan of Movistar

TheBigBean

kingstongraham said:

So their aims are, in order:

1 stop carapaz
2 the team prize no-one else cares about
3 getting as high on gc as possible
4 stage wins from riders who then go somewhere else

You've overlooked their primary role as the pantomime villain for this forum.

Lanterne_Rogue

TheBigBean said:

kingstongraham said:

So their aims are, in order:

1 stop carapaz
2 the team prize no-one else cares about
3 getting as high on gc as possible
4 stage wins from riders who then go somewhere else

You've overlooked their primary role as the pantonmime villain for this forum.

Oh no it isn't

orraloon

blazing_saddles said:

"Billy" : Ineos's nickname for Carapaz.

Per Luke and G on their 'Watts Occurring' podcast they needed to use a different name to avoid confusion over the radios etc with Richie Porte and Carapaz liked the suggestion of Billy.

focuszing723

@AlpecinFenix

ddraver

That was fun, like a Classics GC competition...

Poor old Primoz, lets hope Slovenians like 'Eternal seconds' too

tailwindhome

Nibali.

What a rider

tailwindhome

Imagine going balls out to get in the BOTD, looking down at your computer and seeing 200k to go

There could be a reckoning tomorrow

pblakeney

Recovery rates are going to be tested.

rick_chasey

I am watching the highlights of this as a) I actually had some work and b) my little one decided to shove something up her nose so I had an a&e visit 🙄🙄🙄


Mohoric needs to be thrown off the race for that shoe and sock combo along with looking like he’s about to do a massive sh!t on his saddle when he’s going uphill.

RichN95.

rick_chasey said:

b) my little one decided to shove something up her nose so I had an a&e visit 🙄🙄🙄

Was it a Wout Van Aert bobblehead? I imagine you have a lot of them lying around

bobmcstuff

https://twitter.com/soydiegoayus/status/1410974374165897219?s=19

Beef