Zone 7: the road to Winnats
ugo.santalucia
Posts: 28,313
Did Hardriders yesterday, organised by Banbury Star CC. Really a great time trial course, that in 23 miles packs in a pseudo 25 and a proper hill climb. The hill in question is Sunrising, 93 vertical mt of ascent up the less popular side of Edge hill in Warwickshire. The rest of the course is up and down the rolling A422, which is a very quiet road on a Sunday morning.
I did ride within my means, found it quite easy to keep a lid on the power, averaging 225-230 Watt up to the hill, where I went full gas (3:27 at 365Watt). Strava says I was 3rd quickest on that segment on the day... BUT it's still a course that rewards the testers and the disc wheels, so overall I was only 31st. Given the nature of the course, I am quite happy with 1:04.46, it's basically a 23 miler that yields the same times as a flat 25, looking at the top of the standings and 1:05 is more or less where I am at over that distance. Some might notice a new top.
A proper HC Open race in 9 days, just outside Sheffield... first qualifier for Winnats 21.
https://www.strava.com/activities/5536320946
I did ride within my means, found it quite easy to keep a lid on the power, averaging 225-230 Watt up to the hill, where I went full gas (3:27 at 365Watt). Strava says I was 3rd quickest on that segment on the day... BUT it's still a course that rewards the testers and the disc wheels, so overall I was only 31st. Given the nature of the course, I am quite happy with 1:04.46, it's basically a 23 miler that yields the same times as a flat 25, looking at the top of the standings and 1:05 is more or less where I am at over that distance. Some might notice a new top.
A proper HC Open race in 9 days, just outside Sheffield... first qualifier for Winnats 21.
https://www.strava.com/activities/5536320946
left the forum March 2023
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Comments
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Well done that man.
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Sheffield is where I was born and bred, built on seven hills just like Rome only not quite as nice.
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I got used to that kind of effort and I quite enjoy it... WInnats will be hard though (if I get a spot)oxoman said:Well done ugo. Personally think your mad racing up hills like winnats. I'm quite happy pootling up it myself. Watched a hc event doing monsal head a long time ago in awe at the speed they go up it. Good luck.
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I lived there for three years, whilst I was studying for a PhD.diamonddog said:Sheffield is where I was born and bred, built on seven hills just like Rome only not quite as nice.
The event is in Dore, there is a lane that goes up the moor and re-joins the A625 (Whitelow lane)... about 120 mt vertical drop, not too steep, kind of 7.5% average, probably 10-12 at its steepest, never done it before.
Needless to say, the organising club is called 7hillsleft the forum March 20230 -
Was hoping to get back to the UK this year and Winnets was on my ride list as it's close to my folks house but haven't ridden up it for well over 30yrs. At 51 now it'll be a slow ascent but still targeting under 10mins if the legs are working0 -
If you want a like for like comparison, this is the segment used for the National race, broadly speaking it's just short of cattle grid to cattle grid https://www.strava.com/segments/28963337ridgeway_swiss said:
Was hoping to get back to the UK this year and Winnets was on my ride list as it's close to my folks house but haven't ridden up it for well over 30yrs. At 51 now it'll be a slow ascent but still targeting under 10mins if the legs are workingleft the forum March 20230 -
What time are you expecting to do for that segment Ugo?ugo.santalucia said:
If you want a like for like comparison, this is the segment used for the National race, broadly speaking it's just short of cattle grid to cattle grid https://www.strava.com/segments/28963337ridgeway_swiss said:
Was hoping to get back to the UK this year and Winnets was on my ride list as it's close to my folks house but haven't ridden up it for well over 30yrs. At 51 now it'll be a slow ascent but still targeting under 10mins if the legs are working
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I'll tell you next week when I have a go. I'm taking the week off and spending a couple of days in the Peak District, linking it to my race in Sheffield on Wednesday. I'm planning to have a go at Winnats on thursday.mrb123 said:
What time are you expecting to do for that segment Ugo?ugo.santalucia said:
If you want a like for like comparison, this is the segment used for the National race, broadly speaking it's just short of cattle grid to cattle grid https://www.strava.com/segments/28963337ridgeway_swiss said:
Was hoping to get back to the UK this year and Winnats was on my ride list as it's close to my folks house but haven't ridden up it for well over 30yrs. At 51 now it'll be a slow ascent but still targeting under 10mins if the legs are working
Broadly speaking, same ascent (135 mt) as Dovers hill, where my PB is 5:22 in a race... Winnats is steeper, so should be a quicker ascent for the same elevation gained... it will be around 5 minutes, ideally under rather than over.
The organiser went a long way to find the original course, last used probably 30 years ago, so the course record is still 3:11... if you look at the times on Strava (whatever they are worth) nobody has gone up quicker. List of Winnats National winners
1977 – John Parker 3.22
1972 – Granville Sydney, 3.23
1967 – Paul Wildsmith – 3.43
1966 – PD Greenhalgh – 3.11
1963 – Granville Sydney 3.18
1959 – Gordon Rhodes
1957 – Eric Wilson 3.56
1953 – R Keighley – 3.43
1949 – Bob Maitland 3.50
1947 – Vic Clark 3.28
I wonder how many will go inside Vic Clark's 1947 time...
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Great couple of days in the Peak District. The race itself, up Whitelow Lane was excellent, billiard smooth road surface and a constant 7-8% gradient, until the final drag which was maybe 5%. The road closure allowed for kids to have their own race, lovely to see 6 years old on little bicycles having a go at a big hill and finishing still with a smile (didn't try hard enough?
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I finshed 26th out of 49 and 7th out of 25 veterans, which equals my best result from last season. I was pleased with my time of 4:29 at 355 Watt, but as always in Open events there is no shortage of strong competitors.
Yesterday I then had a go up Winnats pass.... managed to climb the first part with 36x24 and then 36x27 on the top steeper part. I did 5:36 on the National segment, I was hoping for a bit faster, but there was a bit of headwind funnelling down the gorge and probably I wasn't 100% after the race the day before. Not much traffic, which made for a reasonably nice ascent (if Winnats can be described as a nice ascent).
https://www.strava.com/activities/5595108187
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Never been keen on the descent, I went down Mam Tor instead and made a loop, then I went up the moor from Hathersage, nice climb that one, especially with a tailwind... then downhill all the way to Froggatt, lovely ride indeedoxoman said:Brilliant Ugo. Better than I can do and the winnats descent is great until the cattle grid. Did it faster on my mtb than I dare on my roadbike.
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After a week of intense racing (Hill Climb last Wednesday, then hilly 10TT on Tuesday + sporting 10 TT on Thursday), this morning I was feeling fine, so I had a go at Edge hill (well, the top 2/3rds of it) and managed my best power output ever over 2 minutes at 440W, or 6.7 W/kg... last year my best 2 minutes were 390W, so quite a big jump... 2:12 on the segment Vs my best last year of 2:29!
Basically, I could follow Pogacar up a mountain for just over two minutes, before collapsing and vomiting...
Onwards and upwards...left the forum March 20231 -
I've ridden Winnats but my time doesn't show on there for some reason... I think the segment must have been made after my ride, and it's not updated? Anyone experienced that before?ugo.santalucia said:
If you want a like for like comparison, this is the segment used for the National race, broadly speaking it's just short of cattle grid to cattle grid https://www.strava.com/segments/28963337ridgeway_swiss said:
Was hoping to get back to the UK this year and Winnets was on my ride list as it's close to my folks house but haven't ridden up it for well over 30yrs. At 51 now it'll be a slow ascent but still targeting under 10mins if the legs are working0 -
It should update... have you checked in the hidden segments for that particular ride? Otherwise, it's going to be 4-5 seconds quicker than the cattlegrid to cattlegrid segment, which you might havebobmcstuff said:
I've ridden Winnats but my time doesn't show on there for some reason... I think the segment must have been made after my ride, and it's not updated? Anyone experienced that before?ugo.santalucia said:
If you want a like for like comparison, this is the segment used for the National race, broadly speaking it's just short of cattle grid to cattle grid https://www.strava.com/segments/28963337ridgeway_swiss said:
Was hoping to get back to the UK this year and Winnets was on my ride list as it's close to my folks house but haven't ridden up it for well over 30yrs. At 51 now it'll be a slow ascent but still targeting under 10mins if the legs are workingleft the forum March 20230 -
Managed a 4th place (out of 20) at a combined club event last night, my best result to date. Local knowledge helped, it's a draggy hill I know very well.
On the down side, speaking to the winner, who also organises events, he is going to cancel his Opens, due to other commitments and he heard the National will be for a restricted elite, as the road closure is going to be only until 11 AM.
Need a plan B... another big race in late October to look forward to
https://www.strava.com/activities/5808913926left the forum March 20232 -
Low turnout in the Clent hills last night for the Bromsgrove Olympique CC organised hill climb up KH12... only 5 wet souls.
I got the forecast wrong and showed up with super light TT tyres, the front one promptly punctured... managed to crawl up the hill with falling pressure, but still did a PB and overall happy with the time and power output (382 Watt over 3:39 minutes). I probably lost 5 seconds or so... not a big deal.
https://www.strava.com/activities/5819587690left the forum March 20230 -
Lots of events cancelled, due to low number of entries, so I am left with a somewhat reduced calendar and only 3 qualifiers. Tomorrow we will know the requirements for the National, likely to be one for top competitors only.
Anyway, as it stands:
Stratford CC B-type HC up Saintbury KH27 tomorrow
Paragon CRT B-type HC up the Burway Sunday 5th
Beacon RCC B-type HC up KH12 SUnday 12th
OPEN Watford Velo HC up Whiteleaf Sunday 19th
Rugby Velo B-type HC up KH35 on Saturday 25th
Coventry CC B-type up KH5 and KH6 on Saturday 2nd Oct
OPEN Sheffrec CC HP up Monsal Head on Sunday 3rd Oct
OPEN Gossop Kinder CC up The Snake Pass on Sunday 10th Oct
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I have done the Snake Pass HC before... Quite a lot different to Winnats!
I should have another go really, as I reckon I am quite a few watts up on when I did it in 2016, but am away that week (and planning to take Oct as a bit of a rest as well). It suits me that one as it is quite steady away (unlike Winnats which is very steep).0 -
Yes, it is a nice steady climb, with great views. I am more suited to those gradients too... I was a bit disappointed with my time going up Winnats to be honest, I was hoping to hit 5 minutes, but I was well off the mark... probably for the better if I don't get a spot at the National to be honest... I could end up being last...
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Nice evening to race up KH28, yesterday. Good turnout at the Stratford CC hill climb event, about 20 riders of all ages, from 12 to retirement age, some good racers, like the terrific pair from Solihull CC (probably 1st and 2nd). Course a little longer than last year's Open, I managed to go a smidge under 8 minutes for an 180 mt vertical ascent over 2 km, about 9% average. Averaged 4.8 W/kg, about the same as last year's Open race... I haven't done any training on the longer hills, so it's good enough. Strava says 6th on the night, so maybe top ten? Results still pending...
EDIT: 9th of 20... decentleft the forum March 20230 -
A beautiful morning to race up the Burway yesterday. I was hoping for under 12 minutes for the 250mt vertical drop, I did 11:22, at 4.5 W/kg, which I thought was sweet. The turnout was quality, first 6 now occupy the first 6 spots on Strava! So I only managed another 26th place (out of 43...). Only a photo from the rear this time
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Beacon RCC Hill Climb yesterday in the Clent hills, up Winwood Heath road... 1km at 10.5%. There were 4 strong competitors, folks who can win an Open, so very well attended. I managed to do 5 seconds slower than last year, in 4:01, which did cost me 3 places in the classification. Even more annoying, I was slower than 2 weeks earlier when I went up with a flat tyre! I finished 10th out of 21, could have been 7th easily... a bit annoyed with myself, I shouldn't have raced in a 5mile TT on Wednesday, my legs weren't great yesterday morning... oh well!
I've got an Open race on Sunday up Whiteleaf in the Chiltern hills, Andrew Feather will be there with the striped jersey, it'll be cool to see him going up in just over 3 minutes... as for myself, under 5 minutes would be sweet... so no midweek racing!left the forum March 20230 -
Watford Velo Open yesterday up Whiteleaf... a classic climb and one of Simon Warren's 100.
Felt good and went out hard and managed to stay on top of the gear in the steep section... I even managed to finish with a 600Watt sprint to close in 4:58... quite happy to go under 5 minutes for the first time. Andrew Feather (the Martian) won in 3:30, knocking 12 seconds off the course record... didn't even look out of breath at the finish!
The women race looked closer.
25th overall, which is my best result, I was hoping for a top 20 but to be fair most of the chunky competitors have evaporated this year, probably back to filling the post pandemic ranks in CAT 4 races.
https://www.strava.com/activities/5983724930left the forum March 20230 -
I was at Longleat Center Parcs last week with my road bike for the first time and Andrew Feather's KOM times up most of the local hills are insane!================
2020 Voodoo Marasa
2017 Cube Attain GTC Pro Disc 2016
2016 Voodoo Wazoo0 -
Yes, I worked out he goes up these 120-150 mt drops at the same pace as Alaphilippe did up the Mur de Bretagne in Stage 2 (I think) of the TourN0bodyOfTheGoat said:I was at Longleat Center Parcs last week with my road bike for the first time and Andrew Feather's KOM times up most of the local hills are insane!
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He still doesn't have the KoMs on the two climbs we use for our double header HC, which is quite unusual for him, but he's never raced them, only ridden them.N0bodyOfTheGoat said:I was at Longleat Center Parcs last week with my road bike for the first time and Andrew Feather's KOM times up most of the local hills are insane!
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Big weekend of racing.
On Saturday I had the interclub Hill Club trophy, which we lost in the absence of our fastest rider. I did however do quite well, finished 7th of 25 and was timed 4 seconds faster than last year, although Strava thinks I was 8 seconds faster.... either way...
Then on Sunday I mustered my petrol and drove down to Walbury hill for the Newbury Velo Open race. A low turnout and a relatively weak field, means I got my best result in an Open race by quite some margin. Once results are confirmed, I should be 12th in a field of 26... and could have been one better, had I been a tenth of a second faster. There was a bit of headwind, which, combined with the strong tailwind of last year, means times were a lot slower, I was 24 seconds slower, despite putting out an extra 25 Watt.
https://www.strava.com/activities/6020614005
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Last chapter...
Last weekend I stayed in Glossop and raced up the Snake pass... we were lucky to have the road to ourselves, as roadworks meant the A57 is closed to traffic. Fantastic experience! I managed to match my expectations, averaging 275 Watt for 17 minutes... only problem is that on the day, that was only good enough for 45th in a field of 60. Very strong competitors all round. The race was won by Ed Laverack, National Champ in 2019, only one to go under 12 minutes!
I then drove to Bolsover, as it's more or less on my way back home and raced up Carr Lane, a quiet road that sees far too many tractors... luckily it was dry, so the mud was well caked and didn't bother.
Again, a strong field meant that my time was only good for 22nd in a field of 29. So, not a great harvest, although it was nice to go away for a weekend, I should do it more often.
Selection for the National will be this week, but I am not holding my breath, I think I've got maybe 10-20% chances to get a place as a reserve rider...
Next year I think I will focus more on the longer climbs, like Snake Pass, I do enjoy them more and it ties in better with doing a lot of 10 miles TTs, as it's basically a very similar effort.
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... against the odds, looks like I have a place at WinNats21...
Better get off the carbs for the next 10 days or so...left the forum March 20232 -
Good luck for the weekend. Unfortunately can't spectate as the footy team I coach have a morning game.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0
