New handlebars width, shape. Carbon or alloy?

denispearl

Hi all. Have been to local Evans cycles today with no solid advice received. I have a 44 cm wide (from end to end) alloy handlebars factory installed. The bike is BMC team machine 2016.
The thing is that I have a neck and back pain after few hours ride. Can't easily reach the brakes from the drops and could cycle on drops for max an hour. Afterwards it becomes extremely uncomfortable. Hence something isn't right. Browsing the topic of handlebars on the net got me thinking that indeed my bars might be too wide and need a replacement. Hence I didn't get the answer today, could you please advice how to choose the best handlebars width, what is recommended and what material to go for - nice alloy for 50 sounds or good carbon for 150?
Any advice on the handlebars shape would be appreciated as well. Which one should I go for?
Just saying, the frame size seem to be correct. Also had a basic bike fitting from Evans cycles last year, hence then the pain in the bottom part of the busy has gone but still shoulders and neck hurts. Cheers

geoffh73

Are you sure it’s you bars causing discomfort?
It could be your reach is too long and a shorter stem may help.
It is also possible to get bars with a shorter reach, this would have similar effect to a shorter stem and bring the levers a bit closer to you
Can pick up stems cheap enough on eBay to try different sizes

Geoff

brian.paneurope7I7wolqz

Have a proper bike fit. Compared to the cost of a bike it is cheap and you shouldn't have any discomfort when riding.

mrb123

Not sure there are many people who would ride for an hour on the drops TBH. Most people spend the majority of the time on the hoods.

First.Aspect

mrb123 said:

Not sure there are many people who would ride for an hour on the drops TBH. Most people spend the majority of the time on the hoods.

This. Unless you are sprinting, in a breakaway, descending at speed trying to stay away in the breakaway, or your name is Marco, I don't know what you are doing down there.

If you get pain riding on the tops or hoods, you have a problem. The material selection of the bars isn't going to help.

wongataa

Handlebars should be about as wide as your shoulders at the most for road bikes.

If you can't reach the brakes properly from the drops then you need to reposition the levers/adjust the lever reach/change the shape of the bars/mixture of all of those.

I would go for aluminium bars as they are cheaper.

rick_chasey

Hi mate,

sounds like it's more the position of the handlebars rather than the shape of the handlebars themselves.

As per above it sounds like they might be set too far away from you. If getting a new stem sounds like too much faff and investment, try adding a few spacers and raising the bars, see if that helps.

It might help if you describe the sensations you get in your neck, shoulders, arms, back when they hurt too, if that's possible.

As for material - if you have a classic set up with normal stem and normal round handlebars, there's no real advantage for going carbon over aluminium and generally for those set ups people tend to recommend going aluminium as a result given the price difference.

Carbon bars tend to be more interesting when they start doing unusual shapes.

As for the shape - horses for courses. FWIW, most people tend to prefer a curve rather than the the "ergonomic" shape.

I am a fan of the shallow drop but I am a short-arse so it is all proportional.

First.Aspect

The issue here isn't the bars - or at least there's no way to tell. I've been riding for decades and if I spent an hour in the drops I would be uncomfortable as well.

There could be issues with reach, lever position or even bar width I suppose, but right now, there is no way for the OP to tell and so he could well be chasing his tail.

Eliminate the obvious, and take things from there.

mrb123

The easiest thing to try first is probably flipping the stem. That will bring the bars up and closer to you.

First.Aspect

hE iS ridING in tHe dRopS aLL THe tiMe

rick_chasey

First.Aspect said:

hE iS ridING in tHe dRopS aLL THe tiMe

That's not that weird.

Here in Cambridge where the wind blows I will regularly ride in the drops for as long as I am riding into a headwind.

Makes a big difference. You ought to be comfortable in both.

First.Aspect

rick_chasey said:

First.Aspect said:

hE iS ridING in tHe dRopS aLL THe tiMe

That's not that weird.

Here in Cambridge where the wind blows I will regularly ride in the drops for as long as I am riding into a headwind.

Makes a big difference. You ought to be comfortable in both.

Setting aside that it is unusual (I live somewhere that is rather even windier than Cambridge), best guess is the OP is a beginner rider. Takes a while to be used to riding per se and even when you are, prolonged riding in the drops is another step again.

Telling him to start hacking around with his position isn't good advice, at least at this stage.

rick_chasey

Give it a go - you'll probably ride a little faster ;-)

First.Aspect

rick_chasey said:

Give it a go - you'll probably ride a little faster ;-)

I actually own triceps so I can get lower on the tops. But thanks.

Besides, me and fast are not well acquainted.

edward.s

At the risk of trotting out the same old text, get a bike fit first. I bet you'll spend as much on changing parts to no effect than you would on a fit.

I had a similar issue to you with shoulder pain, a trip to the bike fitters cured it for £115 including a new, shorter stem. Bars up 10mm and back 10mm so my arms weren't locking out was all it took, but I couldn't see the reason myself. The fitter could, 'cause he's experienced and is looking at you from the outside.

denispearl

geoffh73 said:

Are you sure it’s you bars causing discomfort?
It could be your reach is too long and a shorter stem may help.
It is also possible to get bars with a shorter reach, this would have similar effect to a shorter stem and bring the levers a bit closer to you
Can pick up stems cheap enough on eBay to try different sizes

Geoff

Hi. Could be . I've already fit a shorter stem. But. I believe 42 cm width is too big. My shoulders are about 38 i trust that narrow is better. Alloy or carbon, that is the question

denispearl

brian.paneurope7I7wolqz said:

Have a proper bike fit. Compared to the cost of a bike it is cheap and you shouldn't have any discomfort when riding.

Had one last year at Evans cycles. Basic one. Other ones are soo expensive. (Iam. In london)Also how would I know that they are not on same level as the Evans does?

denispearl

mrb123 said:

Not sure there are many people who would ride for an hour on the drops TBH. Most people spend the majority of the time on the hoods.

Sounds legit. Thing is I cannot do bottoms after one hour into riding anyways. I see other riders looking much more comfortable whilst on their drops though.

denispearl

mrb123 said:

The easiest thing to try first is probably flipping the stem. That will bring the bars up and closer to you.

Thanks. Already upwards.

denispearl

First.Aspect said:

hE iS ridING in tHe dRopS aLL THe tiMe

Haha. Not always.

denispearl

edward.s said:

At the risk of trotting out the same old text, get a bike fit first. I bet you'll spend as much on changing parts to no effect than you would on a fit.

I had a similar issue to you with shoulder pain, a trip to the bike fitters cured it for £115 including a new, shorter stem. Bars up 10mm and back 10mm so my arms weren't locking out was all it took, but I couldn't see the reason myself. The fitter could, 'cause he's experienced and is looking at you from the outside.

Thanks. Where was it? Looking for decent price and quality in london and surroundings

denispearl

denispearl said:

geoffh73 said:

Are you sure it’s you bars causing discomfort?
It could be your reach is too long and a shorter stem may help.
It is also possible to get bars with a shorter reach, this would have similar effect to a shorter stem and bring the levers a bit closer to you
Can pick up stems cheap enough on eBay to try different sizes

Geoff

Hi. Could be . I've already fit a shorter stem. But. I believe 42 cm width is too big. My shoulders are about 38 i trust that narrow is better. Alloy or carbon, that is the question

Actually I'd rather do an alloy. With the width, am I wrong on this? Is narrower is better ? I mean 38 cm compare to 42 cm. My shoulders are 38 cm from bone to bone

N0bodyOfTheGoat

38cm (at the hoods, 40cm at the drops) Prime Primavera carbon bars?

The v2 officially supports aero bars.

https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/prime-primavera-aero-carbon-handlebar/rp-prod199190

denispearl

First.Aspect said:

The issue here isn't the bars - or at least there's no way to tell. I've been riding for decades and if I spent an hour in the drops I would be uncomfortable as well.

There could be issues with reach, lever position or even bar width I suppose, but right now, there is no way for the OP to tell and so he could well be chasing his tail.

Eliminate the obvious, and take things from there.

Question is whether I'll go to bike fitting with an old 42cm bars or buy 38cm bars and then do the fitting.

denispearl

N0bodyOfTheGoat said:

38cm (at the hoods, 40cm at the drops) Prime Primavera carbon bars?

The v2 officially supports aero bars.

https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/prime-primavera-aero-carbon-handlebar/rp-prod199190

Yeah. Was checking them out and alloy version as well. Should alloy be similar performance?

brian.paneurope7I7wolqz

denispearl said:

brian.paneurope7I7wolqz said:

Have a proper bike fit. Compared to the cost of a bike it is cheap and you shouldn't have any discomfort when riding.

Had one last year at Evans cycles. Basic one. Other ones are soo expensive. (Iam. In london)Also how would I know that they are not on same level as the Evans does?

The fact that you are uncomfortable suggests that the Evans one wasn't a proper bike fit, otherwise you would be comfortable. People spend one , or several thousands, on a bike yet aren't prepared to spend a couple of hundred on ensuring they can cycle it comfortably.

Best result get a bike fit before you order a bike. Then you know what size frame, what size stem, saddle height, reach etc to order.

webboo

I wonder how any of us ever managed to ride to the end of the street in the days before bike fits.

rick_chasey

webboo said:

I wonder how any of us ever managed to ride to the end of the street in the days before bike fits.

Yeah. TBH, if you don't want to fork out the money (I have never felt I should), there are plenty of videos on youtube which are very helpful.

If you can work out what the sensations are that are causing the discomfort, a lot of it is common sense.

pilot_pete

rick_chasey said:

webboo said:

I wonder how any of us ever managed to ride to the end of the street in the days before bike fits.

Yeah. TBH, if you don't want to fork out the money (I have never felt I should), there are plenty of videos on youtube which are very helpful.

If you can work out what the sensations are that are causing the discomfort, a lot of it is common sense.

Indeed, but the OP isn’t apply8ng common sense, he wants to buy narrower bars because he has convinced himself these will make a difference. In my opinion they will make sod all difference if the only change is the width.

To me it is the reach/ drop and levers position that is most likely wrong. But it could theoretically stem (no pun intended!) from an incorrect saddle position putting too much weight forwards.

You can only apply common sense if you have a little knowledge. It sounds like the OP has very little knowledge on correct bike positioning and would therefore be best advised to seek the advice of someone who does have a clue about it, or he is going to be spending money in the vain hope of sorting the problem but then finding each component he changes makes no difference as his position is fundamentally the problem, not the specific components.

If he wants any opinions he would be better off posting some pictures side on, or him on the bike with his closest pedal at the bottom of the pedal stroke, then at the ‘3 o’clock’ position, riding on the hoods, then on the drops. Some of us could offer an opinion on the basics before he shells out cash on potentially pointless component changes.

First.Aspect

Agree with all of PP's post. And RC's. This is a really good thread to illustrate the brainwashing the industry gives new entrants to the sport.

The narrow/wide bar thing is a fad from the pro ranks to get more aero. It will have minimal if any effect on comfort. Different types of bikes have much wider bars for better control - yet gravel or cross bikes aren't considered uncomfortable as a consequence.

Then there is the looming spectre of a bike fit. The magic bullet that removes all cycling discomfort. Throw £200 at a hobbit in a dark room filled with inspiring photos of the alps and intriguing bits of cycling kit and a laptop. The hobbit knows more about phyisology than a hospital consultant and can diagnose anything.

The news is, things hurt when you get tired. You sag, hunch and start to rock on the bike. You start to use muscles that don't make you go forward, because the ones that do have cried enough. A bike fit doesn't make you fitter.

And even if your fit is a bit off - and if you went to a shop and had a rough fit, and tried a couple of sizes, it will only be a bit off - then iteratively adjust it and apply the "is it better or worse" approach. If its better, go further, if its worse or the same go back.

You can do things like tilt the bars, flip the stem, change the number of spacers under the stem and judge if it is helping. You can raise the saddle, lower the saddle, move it back and forwards a bit (to mimic getting a shorter stem), tilt it. You can move your cleats around on the shoes.

If none of that helps, you may need some new parts, but going through the process of actually trying things rather than guessing will help inform which parts you might need.

denispearl

pilot_pete said:

rick_chasey said:

webboo said:

I wonder how any of us ever managed to ride to the end of the street in the days before bike fits.

Yeah. TBH, if you don't want to fork out the money (I have never felt I should), there are plenty of videos on youtube which are very helpful.

If you can work out what the sensations are that are causing the discomfort, a lot of it is common sense.

Indeed, but the OP isn’t apply8ng common sense, he wants to buy narrower bars because he has convinced himself these will make a difference. In my opinion they will make sod all difference if the only change is the width.

To me it is the reach/ drop and levers position that is most likely wrong. But it could theoretically stem (no pun intended!) from an incorrect saddle position putting too much weight forwards.

You can only apply common sense if you have a little knowledge. It sounds like the OP has very little knowledge on correct bike positioning and would therefore be best advised to seek the advice of someone who does have a clue about it, or he is going to be spending money in the vain hope of sorting the problem but then finding each component he changes makes no difference as his position is fundamentally the problem, not the specific components.

If he wants any opinions he would be better off posting some pictures side on, or him on the bike with his closest pedal at the bottom of the pedal stroke, then at the ‘3 o’clock’ position, riding on the hoods, then on the drops. Some of us could offer an opinion on the basics before he shells out cash on potentially pointless component changes.

Not exactly. Exactly common sense solution I'm trying to find here. I'm not in rush of buying the parts, but the issue has to be solved. Yes, I'd prefer for complete rest of mind and deligate fitting to the person who has a clue about it, of course. Not much knowledge here from my side. Finding it's hard to find the meaningful difference between different bike fitting services offered tho. Any tips on that? Some are expensive with all bells and whistles, some are not completely basic but without fancy 3d imagery etc. Price wise for approx 3 hours session varies from 150 to 350. Any ideas if 150 service will be fully sufficient? Still believe that 42 handlebars are too wide for my 38 shoulders width.
Your thoughts?