UK Roundabouts and right turns.

lodgey_3

Hey all,

Was on a cycling this afternoon and just coming up to home where i have to take a right at a rather large roundabout, i pull into the right lane and proceed onto the round about and see a 4x4 bmw coming from in front of me, i signal that i am turning right up till the point where i start turning my bike, this lady doesnt even look right and proceeds onto the round about with about a bikes length of gap between me getting hit or hitting the side of her car, it wasnt till i shouted did she then turn her head to look to the right.

My question is what more can i do to be visible? i have a day running light on the front of my bike, im wearing a bright yellow top and im signalling well before even entering the roundabout yet still motorists just do not spot me, its the second time its happened at this round about.

This one annoys me the most as there was no attempt to even look and im evening thinking of reporting this lady, not even out of malice but so the next roundabout she approaches perhaps it will make her look right and not have worst consequences then today.

This is probably more of a offloading post but i would be interested to hear how others keep themselves safe on the large round abouts.

First.Aspect

Defensive riding. It doesn't matter if you were stark b0llock naked and riding a Tron bike and shooting lasers at them, some drivers still won't see you.

So your only option is to assume they haven't until you can see some indication that they have.

MattFalle

and even then assume they haven't.

basically you have to ride like they intend to kill you unfortunately.

ed1973

There was an interesting article posted on a GCN video on YouTube stating a high % of drivers see cyclists as ‘not human’ and therefore treat them that way. There is simply nothing more you can do. In my experience (I cycle to work 3 times a week) drivers are simply conditioned to look for cars or other motorised vehicles. @First.Aspect nailed it on the head by stating assume you are invisible and anticipate any car you see (pulling out of a junction or likewise) cover your brakes and anticipate the fact they have not seen you until you get some kind of suggestion they have. I ride through the city on the way to work and I can happily state I have at least one incident a week where I have not been seen and a driver has pulled out on me or similar. I found educating instead of birating is much more helpful eg gentle tap on the window and remind them to always look out for bikes.

elbowloh

MattFalle said:

and even then assume they haven't.

basically you have to ride like they intend to kill you unfortunately.

This

When I'm on the road I have the mindset that every car is a potential killer.

dabber

I always try and eyeball them for what's that's worth. I very intently stare at them and continue to try and maintain eye contact (this is obviously only for those in some way ahead of me). If I make eyeball contact i feel I may have some (small) chance of them having seen me. Whether they act in the way they should if they have seen me is in the lap of the gods.

pblakeney

First piece of advice on my first driving lesson, before switching the ignition - Always assume that everybody on the road is a complete idiot. It has served me well.

PMark

I was told Cyclists are always meant to take the left lane at roundabouts, might be she didn't expect a cyclist to be in that lane.

pblakeney

PMark said:

I was told Cyclists are always meant to take the left lane at roundabouts, might be she didn't expect a cyclist to be in that lane.

That's just asking to be left-hooked if you are going right! 🤔

webboo

PMark said:

I was told Cyclists are always meant to take the left lane at roundabouts, might be she didn't expect a cyclist to be in that lane.

So what happens when you keep going right some knobhead runs straight in to you. I usually try to ride on the white lane dividing the two lanes stretching my right arm out as far it will go, hoping anyone behind sees it. All the time I’m ready to brake, swerve just in case.

MattFalle

oxoman said:

Have to agree with the first 2 replys. Unless you have blue flashing lights then assume the worst and anticipate a way out of it. I tend to shout and gesticulate to make my point.

blues make no difference at all tbh - people still drive like dicks.

I've had people pull out on me, not pull over, shout abuse, race me.... its mental.

First.Aspect

PMark said:

I was told Cyclists are always meant to take the left lane at roundabouts, might be she didn't expect a cyclist to be in that lane.

Um. No. But if you aren't up for turning right in the same way as you would in a car, you are better off crossing as a pedestrian.

PMark

webboo said:

PMark said:

I was told Cyclists are always meant to take the left lane at roundabouts, might be she didn't expect a cyclist to be in that lane.

So what happens when you keep going right some knobhead runs straight in to you. I usually try to ride on the white lane dividing the two lanes stretching my right arm out as far it will go, hoping anyone behind sees it. All the time I’m ready to brake, swerve just in case.

It talks about taking the left lane in the highway code, but I personally take the middle of the left lane and indicate right when going round a large roundabout. I find I am more visible that way. Besides, such a knobhead will probably ignore you, no matter which lane you are in.

Defblade

I've learnt a lot about how to be seen on bike and motorbike. You are mainly fighting a problem called looming, whereby an object with little width (such as a bike) coming fairly directly towards you doesn't actually register in the brain as a moving object. It is not recognised as something moving until you are basically practically side-on to the person, and instead of moving towards them, you're now moving across their vision. Hence "he came out of nowhere" and SMIDSY. I do actually have some sympathy with these drivers, as they have somewhat been betrayed by their brain's assumptions.
Flashing lights help counter this as they draw the attention (although are poor at giving location and speed information, so should be run with an always-on light as well), as does the "SMIDSY weave" (or wobble). This involves moving your bike sideways in the lane a bit, or even just rocking your hips so your light moves side-to-side. Either action catches the eye /brain's attention almost instantly and breaks the looming effect.


Of course, if the dozy ****ers never turn their heads to look in the first place, none of this helps at all.
In order of increasing ****ness: clean 4x4s, clean 4x4s with private plates, clean 4x4s with mis-spaced private plates, clean 4x4s with mis-spaced private plates and tinted front windows. Always watch out for the last 2. And Micras.

First.Aspect

PMark said:

webboo said:

PMark said:

I was told Cyclists are always meant to take the left lane at roundabouts, might be she didn't expect a cyclist to be in that lane.

So what happens when you keep going right some knobhead runs straight in to you. I usually try to ride on the white lane dividing the two lanes stretching my right arm out as far it will go, hoping anyone behind sees it. All the time I’m ready to brake, swerve just in case.

It talks about taking the left lane in the highway code, but I personally take the middle of the left lane and indicate right when going round a large roundabout. I find I am more visible that way. Besides, such a knobhead will probably ignore you, no matter which lane you are in.

I'd be interested to know what others do.

I cycle as I drive.

Turning right from the left lane sounds like it would be safe in the Trumpton world of the highway code, and a death sentence in a UK city.

Onegear

elbowloh said:

MattFalle said:

and even then assume they haven't.

basically you have to ride like they intend to kill you unfortunately.

This

When I'm on the road I have the mindset that every car is a potential killer.

The way I think about it: "It doesn't matter who's right or wrong if you're dead.", and the car will win 100% of the time. take care out there.

akh

I use the same lane I would in a car.

Looping around in the left lane requires putting too much faith in other people working out my intention for my liking.

Regarding the Highway Code, the section on cycling doesn't say to use the left lane, but gives advice "If you decide to". This point of advice on taking the left lane sums it up for me:

"take extra care when cycling across exits. You may need to signal right to show you are not leaving the roundabout". In other words, plenty of people won't have a clue what you're doing.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/rules-for-cyclists-59-to-82

elbowloh

Yeah, as others have said, I cycle as a would drive. Take the lane.

First.Aspect

This all rings a bell from the inappropiately named cycling profficiency test they gave us 35 years ago in school. Think that pretty much taught a generation to apologetically creep along the gutter, seek permission to use another part of the lane you were already in, and do things like get off and walk for large parts of the journey.

thistle_

I take the same lane as if I was driving.
Highway Code used to (might still) say you can turn right from the left lane if you're not comfortable using the right lane, but it seems like a bad idea to me.
Someone on the local twitter was arguing a few years ago that cars don't need to use indicators because you can tell where they are going from their position on the road. This doesn't work because of the way people drive these days, but at least being in the right hand lane suggests to others that you might be turning right shortly.

ibr17xvii

MattFalle said:

basically you have to ride like they intend to kill you unfortunately.

^^^This^^^

I try to ride like motorists haven't seen me which is true most of the time it seems.

johngti

ibr17xvii said:

MattFalle said:

basically you have to ride like they intend to kill you unfortunately.

^^^This^^^

I try to ride like motorists haven't seen me which is true most of the time it seems.

Very definition of defensive driving too. Not a surprise that motorists don’t see cyclists when most of the cockwombles can’t even see another car.

orraloon

thistle_ said:

Someone on the local twitter was arguing a few years ago that cars don't need to use indicators because you can tell where they are going from their position on the road.

Refer them to the hours of UK Dashcam footage posted on YouTube and similar.

motogull

Its all about eye contact. I got knocked off when turning right.

I hate roundabouts.

pangolin

As most above, I use the lane I would in a car.

mully79

motogull said:

Its all about eye contact. I got knocked off when turning right.

I hate roundabouts.

Dont trust the eyes. Anyone who rides a motorbike will have had them look right into your eyes and still pull out.

MidlandsGrimpeur2

Agree with all the comments not to trust the eyes. At least once a week I will have a driver clearly see me and still pull out (maybe they see it as a challenge!).

Had one last night at a roundabout, watches me as I clearly indicate I am going all the way around, and then just as I come past her exit (I was turning off at the next left), decides to pull straight out in front of me.

Charlie_Croker

.

Charlie_Croker

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8599907/Britain-gets-Dutch-style-roundabout-gives-priority-cyclists.html#v-6694676530035408693



Even when the best planned systems are put into place its not all plain sailing. They say there’s one in every village. On this tiny overcrowded island I think there’s more than one in every village!
The vast majority of drivers are sensible and thoughtful, thank goodness but there are a few that should have never been allowed behind the wheel of a car. They don’t have to display a red flag unfortunately, so spotting them is near impossible, but these are the ones you have to assume are in front of (or behind) you.

oblongomaculatus

Charlie_Croker said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8599907/Britain-gets-Dutch-style-roundabout-gives-priority-cyclists.html#v-6694676530035408693




Even when the best planned systems are put into place its not all plain sailing. They say there’s one in every village. On this tiny overcrowded island I think there’s more than one in every village!
The vast majority of drivers are sensible and thoughtful, thank goodness but there are a few that should have never been allowed behind the wheel of a car. They don’t have to display a red flag unfortunately, so spotting them is near impossible, but these are the ones you have to assume are in front of (or behind) you.

I think the problem with that roundabout is that drivers were so unfamiliar with the design they didn't realise cyclists on the red bit have priority. I work in Cambridge and ride round it at least once most days. By now everyone seems to have got used to it. You don't see things like in the video any more. My only criticism of the design would be that the width of the cycle lane makes certain points tricky for the freight bike I use for work.

DeVlaeminck

PMark said:

I was told Cyclists are always meant to take the left lane at roundabouts, might be she didn't expect a cyclist to be in that lane.

I'm interested in whether this is actually taught/official advice for cyclists anywhere ?