Buying in France

womack

To counter balance some of the negatives about having your own place and returning to the same place, in non covid times I can hop on an easyJet from Liverpool (half an hour from my UK house) a one hour bus and train journey from Faro and I can be riding my bike there tomorrow.

I have nothing to carry but my passport and a few Euros because everything is out there, bike, helmet, shoes, clothes, in fact everything you have at home.

Because we have been many times even have people to ride with both Brits and Portuguese and obviously different rides from what I do in UK.

There are pros and cons, the convenience of having everything there and not having to lug a dirty great big suitcase around is a big plus.

When we drive down we have previously (may be more restrictive due to Brexit) loaded the car with stuff that is expensive out there, coffee, personal hygiene stuff etc.

You pays your money so to speak.

Pross

Yep, that's the real benefit for me. We enjoy camping but it makes for an uncomfortable journey when the car is fully loaded! That said, we thought about keeping some camping stuff over there that people could use if we rented the house out and it would also give the opportunity to disappear off to other parts of the country for a week or so when we are out there.

surrey_commuter

womack said:

To counter balance some of the negatives about having your own place and returning to the same place, in non covid times I can hop on an easyJet from Liverpool (half an hour from my UK house) a one hour bus and train journey from Faro and I can be riding my bike there tomorrow.

I have nothing to carry but my passport and a few Euros because everything is out there, bike, helmet, shoes, clothes, in fact everything you have at home.

Because we have been many times even have people to ride with both Brits and Portuguese and obviously different rides from what I do in UK.

There are pros and cons, the convenience of having everything there and not having to lug a dirty great big suitcase around is a big plus.

When we drive down we have previously (may be more restrictive due to Brexit) loaded the car with stuff that is expensive out there, coffee, personal hygiene stuff etc.

You pays your money so to speak.

horses for courses but that makes more sense to me as it brings a long weekend into play and is a major regional airport so unlikely to end your flights which is a danger with small regional ones

Pross

Can fly Bristol to Nantes if I wanted a shorter stay. Would be ideal if, for example, I wanted to pop over for this years Tour stages with a few mates. Unfortunately getting anything done this year is unrealistic but it would provide fairly easy access to 5 stages (unlikely to get that again though).

womack

Pross said:

Can fly Bristol to Nantes if I wanted a shorter stay. Would be ideal if, for example, I wanted to pop over for this years Tour stages with a few mates. Unfortunately getting anything done this year is unrealistic but it would provide fairly easy access to 5 stages (unlikely to get that again though).

Yes we have, not this year due to covid, the tour of the Algarve come straight past our front door in February. Also we have two second division teams regularly training locally, what were Sporting Tavira (now sponsored by General Tuna!!) and W52 FC Porto as Antunes is from just up the road.

I certainly haven't regretted owning these past 20 years and most of it has been plain sailing. Our next door neighbour keeps an eye on the place for us so we don't really have many worries.

Have never rented it out (family can go) but couldn't be bothered with the mither of letting out and becoming liable for tax, then a touristic license, then an accountant etc.


It really is the 90-180 that is killing it for me. We are both retired now so two years ago (nothing last year due to covid) we did Plymouth to Roscoff, turned toll roads off on sat nav and sauntered our way down the west of France stopping at hotels when we felt like it, seeing all the villages not just the motorway.

Then down to Eastern Spain for stays with two separate friends over there then across to Portugal. Three months in our gaff then a leisurely drive back to Santander and the boat back. We were gone four months in total, something that is now not going to be easily achieved.

On the plus side if you get flashed by a speed camera the reciprocal sharing of data has now finished so you will not get a fine through the post!!

TheBigBean

The 90/180 rule makes no sense to me if there is no option to apply for a longer term visa. There are a lot of countries in the Schengen area, and it makes sense to encourage tourism.

This view is not related to Brexit. Plenty of smaller countries allow longer stays whilst some other even more foolish countries restrict to shorter stays.

Overall, a 180/year rule makes much more sense. Allows tourists to spend a long summer travelling around Europe.

Stevo_666

For people who are considering permanent moves, some countries are offering incentives for people to go live there. Without googling it again, I'm sure Greece, Italy and Portugal were on the list (or at least parts of those countries).

elbowloh

Stevo_666 said:

For people who are considering permanent moves, some countries are offering incentives for people to go live there. Without googling it again, I'm sure Greece, Italy and Portugal were on the list (or at least parts of those countries).

Italy is definitely trying to encourage people to villages that have been depopulated, particularly where there are empty houses that might need a bit of work. There are even some houses going for a nominal 1euro fee!

womack

Stevo_666 said:

For people who are considering permanent moves, some countries are offering incentives for people to go live there. Without googling it again, I'm sure Greece, Italy and Portugal were on the list (or at least parts of those countries).

Yes, Portugal definitely offer the NHR Scheme which sees income from your host country tax free for 10 year's (The exception being Civil Service Pensions which are still taxable in UK)

dabber

Although I pointed out a few negatives in my earlier post for a bit of balance i ought to highlight some more of the positives.
Our French neighbours have been really lovely, helpful beyond the call of duty and good company. Just nice people.
Since we've had the house I've got French riding buddies who are good fun to ride with and are a wealth of good routes (even though one, a recently retired pilot, regularly gets us lost)... but a good guy all the same.... they slow down for me
By getting involved in various village activities we've experienced a different view of the French and had some great fun with them. We wouldn't have got that just staying in an hotel or gites.

ddraver

elbowloh said:

Stevo_666 said:

For people who are considering permanent moves, some countries are offering incentives for people to go live there. Without googling it again, I'm sure Greece, Italy and Portugal were on the list (or at least parts of those countries).

Italy is definitely trying to encourage people to villages that have been depopulated, particularly where there are empty houses that might need a bit of work. There are even some houses going for a nominal 1euro fee!

The Italians do want you to LIVE there though...

Stevo_666

ddraver said:

elbowloh said:

Stevo_666 said:

For people who are considering permanent moves, some countries are offering incentives for people to go live there. Without googling it again, I'm sure Greece, Italy and Portugal were on the list (or at least parts of those countries).

Italy is definitely trying to encourage people to villages that have been depopulated, particularly where there are empty houses that might need a bit of work. There are even some houses going for a nominal 1euro fee!

The Italians do want you to LIVE there though...

He was replying to my post about people considering permanent moves.

davidof

ddraver said:

elbowloh said:

Stevo_666 said:

For people who are considering permanent moves, some countries are offering incentives for people to go live there. Without googling it again, I'm sure Greece, Italy and Portugal were on the list (or at least parts of those countries).

Italy is definitely trying to encourage people to villages that have been depopulated, particularly where there are empty houses that might need a bit of work. There are even some houses going for a nominal 1euro fee!

The Italians do want you to LIVE there though...

and they are depopulated for a reason

briantrumpet

davidof said:

ddraver said:

elbowloh said:

Stevo_666 said:

For people who are considering permanent moves, some countries are offering incentives for people to go live there. Without googling it again, I'm sure Greece, Italy and Portugal were on the list (or at least parts of those countries).

Italy is definitely trying to encourage people to villages that have been depopulated, particularly where there are empty houses that might need a bit of work. There are even some houses going for a nominal 1euro fee!

The Italians do want you to LIVE there though...

and they are depopulated for a reason

Exactly so. Where my house is isn't nearly as bad as some for an economically active population, but very few of the full-time residents seem to have 'normal' employment of any sort, and it's only 10 minutes outside of a town of 4000. Some of the villages further along the valley, between valleys, or on dead-end roads off the valley, are virtually empty. Agriculture is about the only work nearby, and no-one wants to do that. No buses, a 30-minute drive to the nearest shop, and the likelihood you'll get cut off for parts of the winter.

Incidentally, have you ever read "Une soupe aux herbes sauvages"? https://www.amazon.co.uk/Une-Soupe-Aux-Herbes-Sauvages/dp/2266145401 - a very vivid book about life in the mountains in the early 20th century. Makes you realise how easy we have it now.

darkhairedlord

Easy to buy, hard to sell.

ugo.santalucia

Stevo_666 said:

For people who are considering permanent moves, some countries are offering incentives for people to go live there. Without googling it again, I'm sure Greece, Italy and Portugal were on the list (or at least parts of those countries).

Maybe... however, having tried to get Italian citizenship for my wife, I would not recommend any Brit to go that route.

Enough said that not even Suarez, having oiled the mechanism with the millions of professional football, managed the stunt.
I am sure there are countries in the eastern Europe block who are quite happy to take Brits and offer citizenship in return for pounds...

ugo.santalucia

elbowloh said:

Stevo_666 said:

For people who are considering permanent moves, some countries are offering incentives for people to go live there. Without googling it again, I'm sure Greece, Italy and Portugal were on the list (or at least parts of those countries).

Italy is definitely trying to encourage people to villages that have been depopulated, particularly where there are empty houses that might need a bit of work. There are even some houses going for a nominal 1euro fee!

There is a string attached, you need to renovate them by contract... so you can easily add 6 figures

davidof

ugo.santalucia said:

Maybe... however, having tried to get Italian citizenship for my wife, I would not recommend any Brit to go that route.

I was told that French citizenship (not residency) is taking 7 years on average for Brits now. You need to be a resident for 5 years before even starting down that route. It is easier to become Swiss.

davidof

briantrumpet said:

Incidentally, have you ever read "Une soupe aux herbes sauvages"?

I've not but I know quite a bit about the history of the Alps. Even the Swiss alps were dirt poor between the wars. If you are ever in Grenoble visit the Dauphinois Museum and you'll see reconstructions of the interior of farm houses which are fascinating.

Stevo_666

ugo.santalucia said:

Stevo_666 said:

For people who are considering permanent moves, some countries are offering incentives for people to go live there. Without googling it again, I'm sure Greece, Italy and Portugal were on the list (or at least parts of those countries).

Maybe... however, having tried to get Italian citizenship for my wife, I would not recommend any Brit to go that route.

Enough said that not even Suarez, having oiled the mechanism with the millions of professional football, managed the stunt.
I am sure there are countries in the eastern Europe block who are quite happy to take Brits and offer citizenship in return for pounds...

I know it is an arduous process - Davidof just told us how long the French process takes, you've experienced the Italian version and a mate of mine (former Brit) living in Madrid became a Spanish citizen about 2 years back after either a 5 year or 10 year wait (must check with him on that) and a lot of beaurocracy.

That said, those countries that are prepared to give you incentives to move there are presumably happy for you to live there while you try to get citizenship?

ugo.santalucia

Stevo_666 said:

That said, those countries that are prepared to give you incentives to move there are presumably happy for you to live there while you try to get citizenship?

Basically, they try to sell you this romantic idea of "repopulating" abandoned historic villages, but in reality they try to stimulate the local economy. You buy a dilapidated house for a nominal 1 euro, with the tie that you need to renovate it. The problem is that you need more than just timber, plaster and paint. Structural work is needed, which of course needs to be approved, before it is carried out. It is a windfall of cash for the local councils, notaries, as well as local contractors... a win win situation. I expect many will never actually manage to do the work, once they realise the costs involved are eye watering and will pull out of the deal, legally or not. The village will never spring back to life and the best case scenario is that you will own a renovated property in a ghost village somewhere relatively nice, but far from everything. Probably impossible to sell too, given someone could buy the neighbouring dilapidated house for 1 euro... why would they spend 100,000 for yours?

pblakeney

ugo.santalucia said:

Probably impossible to sell too, given someone could buy the neighbouring dilapidated house for 1 euro... why would they spend 100,000 for yours?

Cos yours is now at move in condition with no strings attached?

ugo.santalucia

pblakeney said:

ugo.santalucia said:

Probably impossible to sell too, given someone could buy the neighbouring dilapidated house for 1 euro... why would they spend 100,000 for yours?

Cos yours is now at move in condition with no strings attached?

Sure, but the point is that nobody would ever buy a 100K house in a ghost village... so, the reality is that unless the village springs back to life, which it won't, then you have spent a lot of money to own an asset which has no market value.

pblakeney

ugo.santalucia said:

pblakeney said:

ugo.santalucia said:

Probably impossible to sell too, given someone could buy the neighbouring dilapidated house for 1 euro... why would they spend 100,000 for yours?

Cos yours is now at move in condition with no strings attached?

Sure, but the point is that nobody would ever buy a 100K house in a ghost village... so, the reality is that unless the village springs back to life, which it won't, then you have spent a lot of money to own an asset which has no market value.

Depends on you attitude to being remote and/or quiet.
I've looked at many holiday homes in UK for this year that are miles from the next house, far less a lively town.

ugo.santalucia

pblakeney said:

ugo.santalucia said:

pblakeney said:

ugo.santalucia said:

Probably impossible to sell too, given someone could buy the neighbouring dilapidated house for 1 euro... why would they spend 100,000 for yours?

Cos yours is now at move in condition with no strings attached?

Sure, but the point is that nobody would ever buy a 100K house in a ghost village... so, the reality is that unless the village springs back to life, which it won't, then you have spent a lot of money to own an asset which has no market value.

Depends on you attitude to being remote and/or quiet.
I've looked at many holiday homes in UK for this year that are miles from the next house, far less a lively town.

It's not the remoteness. It's the lack of an internet connection (let alone a decent one), phone signal, the lack of gas, often electricity and sewage... the basics... there is always a reason why a village became a ghost village. They want you to believe it's the lack of jobs, but people commute hours, if it's worth living in one place... clearly it's not worth it

rjsterry

ugo.santalucia said:

Stevo_666 said:

That said, those countries that are prepared to give you incentives to move there are presumably happy for you to live there while you try to get citizenship?

Basically, they try to sell you this romantic idea of "repopulating" abandoned historic villages, but in reality they try to stimulate the local economy. You buy a dilapidated house for a nominal 1 euro, with the tie that you need to renovate it. The problem is that you need more than just timber, plaster and paint. Structural work is needed, which of course needs to be approved, before it is carried out. It is a windfall of cash for the local councils, notaries, as well as local contractors... a win win situation. I expect many will never actually manage to do the work, once they realise the costs involved are eye watering and will pull out of the deal, legally or not. The village will never spring back to life and the best case scenario is that you will own a renovated property in a ghost village somewhere relatively nice, but far from everything. Probably impossible to sell too, given someone could buy the neighbouring dilapidated house for 1 euro... why would they spend 100,000 for yours?

Are they not effectively selling building plots? Sure you might keep a few scraps of masonry, but by the time you're done on any knackered old building there's more new than original.

ugo.santalucia

rjsterry said:

ugo.santalucia said:

Stevo_666 said:

That said, those countries that are prepared to give you incentives to move there are presumably happy for you to live there while you try to get citizenship?

Basically, they try to sell you this romantic idea of "repopulating" abandoned historic villages, but in reality they try to stimulate the local economy. You buy a dilapidated house for a nominal 1 euro, with the tie that you need to renovate it. The problem is that you need more than just timber, plaster and paint. Structural work is needed, which of course needs to be approved, before it is carried out. It is a windfall of cash for the local councils, notaries, as well as local contractors... a win win situation. I expect many will never actually manage to do the work, once they realise the costs involved are eye watering and will pull out of the deal, legally or not. The village will never spring back to life and the best case scenario is that you will own a renovated property in a ghost village somewhere relatively nice, but far from everything. Probably impossible to sell too, given someone could buy the neighbouring dilapidated house for 1 euro... why would they spend 100,000 for yours?

Are they not effectively selling building plots? Sure you might keep a few scraps of masonry, but by the time you're done on any knackered old building there's more new than original.

If only...

It's all the equivalent of grade 2 listed. You can do what you want inside, but you can't touch the outside.
My parents could not open a window on the north face of a 1920s farm, because in the days, traditionally those houses did not have windows on that side.

The only way to do it, is to do it anyway and then apply for the "condono" to make it legal, paying a fine, a process that happens every 10 years or so when the state is in need of quick cash.

You definitively can't knock the building and rebuild from scratch in a historic village

rjsterry

ugo.santalucia said:

rjsterry said:

ugo.santalucia said:

Stevo_666 said:

That said, those countries that are prepared to give you incentives to move there are presumably happy for you to live there while you try to get citizenship?

Basically, they try to sell you this romantic idea of "repopulating" abandoned historic villages, but in reality they try to stimulate the local economy. You buy a dilapidated house for a nominal 1 euro, with the tie that you need to renovate it. The problem is that you need more than just timber, plaster and paint. Structural work is needed, which of course needs to be approved, before it is carried out. It is a windfall of cash for the local councils, notaries, as well as local contractors... a win win situation. I expect many will never actually manage to do the work, once they realise the costs involved are eye watering and will pull out of the deal, legally or not. The village will never spring back to life and the best case scenario is that you will own a renovated property in a ghost village somewhere relatively nice, but far from everything. Probably impossible to sell too, given someone could buy the neighbouring dilapidated house for 1 euro... why would they spend 100,000 for yours?

Are they not effectively selling building plots? Sure you might keep a few scraps of masonry, but by the time you're done on any knackered old building there's more new than original.

If only...

It's all the equivalent of grade 2 listed. You can do what you want inside, but you can't touch the outside.
My parents could not open a window on the north face of a 1920s farm, because in the days, traditionally those houses did not have windows on that side.

The only way to do it, is to do it anyway and then apply for the "condono" to make it legal, paying a fine, a process that happens every 10 years or so when the state is in need of quick cash.

You definitively can't knock the building and rebuild from scratch in a historic village

So not that different from here then., 😁😭
In fact a lot easier than Grade II listed buildings here where the interiors are considered as 'sacred'.

loltoride

ugo.santalucia said:

pblakeney said:

ugo.santalucia said:

pblakeney said:

ugo.santalucia said:

Probably impossible to sell too, given someone could buy the neighbouring dilapidated house for 1 euro... why would they spend 100,000 for yours?

Cos yours is now at move in condition with no strings attached?

Sure, but the point is that nobody would ever buy a 100K house in a ghost village... so, the reality is that unless the village springs back to life, which it won't, then you have spent a lot of money to own an asset which has no market value.

Depends on you attitude to being remote and/or quiet.
I've looked at many holiday homes in UK for this year that are miles from the next house, far less a lively town.

It's not the remoteness. It's the lack of an internet connection (let alone a decent one), phone signal, the lack of gas, often electricity and sewage... the basics... there is always a reason why a village became a ghost village. They want you to believe it's the lack of jobs, but people commute hours, if it's worth living in one place... clearly it's not worth it

I think there is some truth to this a close family friend has a beautiful cottage in Montelimar about 6-7 km from town center. The internet connection is terrible so bad that none of us hardly use anymore although no issues with sewage, he has owned for years but not been able to sell as so remote but such a beautiful place.