Rose Bikes not honouring bike warranty

firmo123

Rose Bike Issue

Has anyone ever had an issue with a manufacturer who has failed to honour the warranty?

I am having huge problems with Rose Bikes (Germany) at the moment.

Recently, I had an incident with my bike (ROSE X-LITE TWO Force, 2.5 years old). There was no crash. The bike was not involved in any impact or accident. Just a freak incident.

I was just beginning a climb and after perhaps the second pedal stroke, I just felt the pedals go slack. When I stopped to look, I saw that the eyelet (on the right side) where the axle goes through had completely broke. The force exerted from the effort on the pedals must have also caused the derailleur to snap. Such a freak thing to happen.

Rose Bikes completely rejects my explanation of what happened and tell me that I have to pay almost 1700 euros for the repairs (which includes a half price bike frame). They say that they believe I had fall with the bike - but this is complete bollocks. The bike has never been involved in any accident, recently nor in the past.

My opinion is that the frame should be covered under the warranty.
https://www.rosebikes.com/faq/garantie
I also believe that they should cover the cost of the broken derailleur since this happened as a result of the frame snapping.

I have explained this to them several times, but they are sticking to their opinion that the bike has had a crash. They even showed me additional photos of scratches to the bike (on the brake levers, handlebar plugs and tops of brake hoods), but this is purely cosmetic damage that has happened over years of use (i.e. propping the bike against walls, or turning the bike over to do maintenance in the absence of a bike stand) - Just normal scuffs that you would see on any bike!

They even said that ifI wanted to get the opinion of an expert to review their findings, it would cost an additional 1500 euros! Ridiculous.

So now my broken bike is in Germany with them. They want 1700 euros for the repair (I only paid 2200 for the complete bike 2.5 years ago!). I am completely at my Witts end with them.

What can I do from here?

I have attached photos of the damage to the frame and the derailleur, plus the photos that Rose Bikes sent back to me of the (cosmetic) damage to the hoods.

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

emanresu

I would guess Rose's point of view is that after 2.5 years of use it's not a manufacturing fault as that would have shown itself a lot earlier, so in their opinion you've either crashed the bike or damaged the bike in which case it's not their fault.

First.Aspect

Their evidence is fairly thin though. Normal scuff marks from leaning against a wall. Where is the big impact damage on the rear mech, for example?

First.Aspect

emanresu said:

I would guess Rose's point of view is that after 2.5 years of use it's not a manufacturing fault as that would have shown itself a lot earlier, so in their opinion you've either crashed the bike or damaged the bike in which case it's not their fault.

What then is the point of a lifetime frame warranty?

emanresu

First.Aspect said:

emanresu said:

I would guess Rose's point of view is that after 2.5 years of use it's not a manufacturing fault as that would have shown itself a lot earlier, so in their opinion you've either crashed the bike or damaged the bike in which case it's not their fault.

What then is the point of a lifetime frame warranty?

So the manufacturer can sell more bikes.

MidlandsGrimpeur2

It's a difficult one, as someone who runs a manufacturing business I will try and give a bit of insight from what I think may be Rose bikes perspective.

You get some warranty claims which are straightforward, there is a clear defect that has not been picked up in the manufacturing process, you honour these no questions as they are usually clear and obvious.

You then get those that don't look right and as the manufacturer you dispute what has caused the defect. You tend, as the manufacturer, to push back on these, especially as nobody can prove conclusively what caused the fault.

I suspect Rose is doing just this. I am not accusing the OP of anything untoward at all about how the damage occurred. Just stating that Rose will likely have looked at the claim and decided that, in their opinion, this has been caused by a crash. As you cannot prove this is not the case they will likely stand their ground on it. Having been in similar situations I would do the same in all honesty.

I know this does not help the OP get their claim resolved, just trying to give a possible insight into Rose bikes response and why they would be reluctant to honour the warranty.

First.Aspect

Can't help wondering whether the same answer would be given to an EU customer. They have no need to treat past UK customers as future customers, do they?

I also can't help wondering why, in a crash, the supposedly strongest part of the frame would break.

MattFalle

brexit, eh.

but at least you got blue passports.

johngti

MattFalle said:

brexit, eh.

but at least you got blue passports.

But, weren’t they black, not blue?

MattFalle

Not sure - maybe best to ask the French firm that won the contract the Cuntservative party dished out for making them.

johngti

No, the old ones. Mine was a black cover, I’m sure. Kind of ruins the whole point of Brexit if that’s the case

MattFalle

Ah, yes, those.

Yup. As far as I can remember as well you are correct. They couldn't even get that right.....

firmo123

Regarding the point about Britain... I'm English, but live in Spain, so I am an EU customer.

And the frame - Exactly. I think it would have taken an almighty smash to have broken this part of the frame. It's a freak incident.

First.Aspect said:

Can't help wondering whether the same answer would be given to an EU customer. They have no need to treat past UK customers as future customers, do they?

I also can't help wondering why, in a crash, the supposedly strongest part of the frame would break.

firmo123

Thanks. I appreciate your input.

I too have owned a B2C company in the past (selling sports goods), and it is true that you get many customers trying their luck, trying to get a new product.

For me though, it is an honest claim. It happened at the foot of a 20% climb. I was with a friend who can couch for what happened. Ha, I wish I she had caught the incident on video!

But now - What can I do? If there is a warranty on the frame, then surely this has to be honoured by Rose Bikes. Of course, without actual video footage I cannot prove what caused the sudden break to the frame, but there is no evidence on the bike of it ever having been involved in a crash (simply because it has never been crashed).

Any advice?

MidlandsGrimpeur2 said:

It's a difficult one, as someone who runs a manufacturing business I will try and give a bit of insight from what I think may be Rose bikes perspective.

You get some warranty claims which are straightforward, there is a clear defect that has not been picked up in the manufacturing process, you honour these no questions as they are usually clear and obvious.

You then get those that don't look right and as the manufacturer you dispute what has caused the defect. You tend, as the manufacturer, to push back on these, especially as nobody can prove conclusively what caused the fault.

I suspect Rose is doing just this. I am not accusing the OP of anything untoward at all about how the damage occurred. Just stating that Rose will likely have looked at the claim and decided that, in their opinion, this has been caused by a crash. As you cannot prove this is not the case they will likely stand their ground on it. Having been in similar situations I would do the same in all honesty.

I know this does not help the OP get their claim resolved, just trying to give a possible insight into Rose bikes response and why they would be reluctant to honour the warranty.

firmo123

Nope. The bike has never been used on a turbo or anything like that. I live in sunny Andalucía so the bike has probably only ever seen rain about 3 times in the years I have had it (and as such, never had the need to use a turbo - although I would have loved one during the lockdown here in Málaga!)

oxoman said:

Suspect best bet is to get the bike home and potentially look at if its repairable. Some of the frames I've seem repaired I'd have thought were beyond repair. They seem to be able to repair most things. Personally I wouldn't be looking at another Rose bike purely because of the attitude to supplying the UK and response. Just a thought has the bike been used on a direct drive turbo, mate has seen a few frames that have failed after being hammered in training sessions in similar ways.

First.Aspect

Perhaps indicate that you will obtain your own independent assessment?

To my mind if they can't find any deep scratches on the rear mech, or evidence of crash damage on the wheels, they are behaving poorly.

Have you got the stomach for a small claims type process?

firmo123

They are completely behaving poorly. The bike was performing perfectly well before the frame issue. There is no damage to suggest there having been a crash.

Small claims - I've never gone through such a process so I have no idea how these things are done. I can't remember the last time I even had an issue whereby I had to send something back to the seller! I suppose I will have to look in to this, because I feel it is very misleading to offer a warranty on a product and not to honour it.

First.Aspect said:

Perhaps indicate that you will obtain your own independent assessment?

To my mind if they can't find any deep scratches on the rear mech, or evidence of crash damage on the wheels, they are behaving poorly.

Have you got the stomach for a small claims type process?

MattFalle

firmo123 said:

Thanks. I appreciate your input.

I too have owned a B2C company in the past (selling sports goods), and it is true that you get many customers trying their luck, trying to get a new product.

For me though, it is an honest claim. It happened at the foot of a 20% climb. I was with a friend who can couch for what happened. Ha, I wish I she had caught the incident on video!

But now - What can I do? If there is a warranty on the frame, then surely this has to be honoured by Rose Bikes. Of course, without actual video footage I cannot prove what caused the sudden break to the frame, but there is no evidence on the bike of it ever having been involved in a crash (simply because it has never been crashed).

Any advice?

MidlandsGrimpeur2 said:

It's a difficult one, as someone who runs a manufacturing business I will try and give a bit of insight from what I think may be Rose bikes perspective.

You get some warranty claims which are straightforward, there is a clear defect that has not been picked up in the manufacturing process, you honour these no questions as they are usually clear and obvious.

You then get those that don't look right and as the manufacturer you dispute what has caused the defect. You tend, as the manufacturer, to push back on these, especially as nobody can prove conclusively what caused the fault.

I suspect Rose is doing just this. I am not accusing the OP of anything untoward at all about how the damage occurred. Just stating that Rose will likely have looked at the claim and decided that, in their opinion, this has been caused by a crash. As you cannot prove this is not the case they will likely stand their ground on it. Having been in similar situations I would do the same in all honesty.

I know this does not help the OP get their claim resolved, just trying to give a possible insight into Rose bikes response and why they would be reluctant to honour the warranty.

She?

firmo123

Hahaha!! Yeah, I only popped out to meet a (female) friend to lead her back to my house.

MattFalle said:

She?

darkhairedlord

It looks like the rd has jammed and gone into the spokes. It happens. Could have been a small stone or twig or anything end up caught in the mech, it then bends the mech and/or hanger, the whole lot ends up in the spokes.
Did you remove the "dork disk" that is designed to prevent this?

firmo123

And you think that such a thing would cause that part of the frame to completely break? The wheel (and spokes) appeared not to have suffered any damage from this incident.

I don't remember there ever being a 'dork disk' on the wheel either.

darkhairedlord said:

It looks like the rd has jammed and gone into the spokes. It happens. Could have been a small stone or twig or anything end up caught in the mech, it then bends the mech and/or hanger, the whole lot ends up in the spokes.
Did you remove the "dork disk" that is designed to prevent this?

MattFalle

firmo123 said:

Hahaha!! Yeah, I only popped out to meet a (female) friend to lead her back to my house.

MattFalle said:

She?

female female,?

DeVlaeminck

It is typical mech in spokes damage.

MidlandsGrimpeur2

But now - What can I do? If there is a warranty on the frame, then surely this has to be honoured by Rose Bikes. Of course, without actual video footage I cannot prove what caused the sudden break to the frame, but there is no evidence on the bike of it ever having been involved in a crash (simply because it has never been crashed).

Any advice?

Unfortunately if they are disputing the warranty claim then no, they do not have to honour it. Essentially it is your word against theirs and you are at the biggest disadvantage. You can't prove it is a defect and you have no intermediary such as a bike shop/distributor to argue the claim on your behalf.

Personally I would say any kind of legal action such as small claims is a no go. You simply can't prove it, any expert you provided to say it was a defect would likely have a counter expert from Rose saying it was a crash.

In my opinion, your best bet now is to accept you are not going to get a free replacement and start negotiating the best deal to have the frame repaired/replaced. Explain that you understand their opinion but you are acting in good faith and this is a genuine warranty claim. Say that in order to get it resolved amicably you would be willing to make a reasonable offer to cover partial costs and see what their response is.

Others may disagree but I suspect this is the best you are going to get away with at this point I'm afraid.

itboffin

Get them to ship it back and send it to one of the carbon frame repairs job done

First.Aspect

DeVlaeminck said:

It is typical mech in spokes damage.

The hanger should have broken, not the frame.

firmo123

I agree. I think that the frame should have withstood such an event, even if this was the cause.

First.Aspect said:

DeVlaeminck said:

It is typical mech in spokes damage.

The hanger should have broken, not the frame.

firmo123

Would it be possible to fix such an issue with the frame though? It seems like an odd spot to fix, because they would need to create the eyelet (and for it to be very strong).

And if this is possible, what do you reckon the cost would be (just so I can weigh this up against potentially finding a new frame).

Personally, I fucking hate the situation. I still believe that I should not have to get a new frame or even pay for a repair.

Avoid Rose Bikes in future.

itboffin said:

Get them to ship it back and send it to one of the carbon frame repairs job done

DeVlaeminck

First.Aspect said:

DeVlaeminck said:

It is typical mech in spokes damage.

The hanger should have broken, not the frame.

Yes it should but my money would still be on that having happened than the frame just coming apart like that if there's been no impact damage

elbowloh

In my experience (it happened to me), when my bike fell over onto it's right side (it was on a train) , it seemed fine. But a few days later mid-ride it failed and the rear mech went into the spokes. It was still the hanger that broke rather than the frame.

darkhairedlord

From the photos, it doesn't look like the bike has been looked after....