Recovery Period

kageds

Hi, i am currently doing one hour every other day at around 90-95% FTP, the weekend day my day on falls on i will do a 2 x 20FTP at 100% FTP, i have read that i should have a week off cycling every fifth week, i haven't done this yet and the only time i miss my routine is when i am away with work for the odd day or on holiday in the summer with the family. would it be a good idea to bring some king of set recovery period into my routine, im not training to race, just to improve my fitness and my FTP so that i can improve my times on the routes i take

MidlandsGrimpeur2

Recovery means different things to different people, for some a day off is recovery, others like to plan set blocks into their training. Personally, I work on the basis of take time off the bike when you feel you need to, that is about the best approach to recovery I have found.

With the amount of cycling you are doing, you seem to have enough time off the bike, I don't think you need to factor in a set recovery period.

hdow

From what you've posted I think you've got things a bit mixed up. Nothing but hard workouts generally don't improve your aerobic fitness. To improve you times on your routes (I assume these are longer than an hour) you need to do lots of zone 2 endurance work (at say 55-75% of FTP) supplemented by some of tempo (76-90% FTP), some at 91-105% FTP and even some shorter ones at even higher intensities. You should find that one high intensity workout for every four zone 2 workouts is optimal.

imposter2.0

kageds said:

im not training to race, just to improve my fitness and my FTP so that i can improve my times on the routes i take

So, ultimately, your goal is to spend less time cycling?

DeVlaeminck

Out of interest given you've been doing this since before last Summer what kind of progress have you made - as you mention increasing FTP as an aim how has that gone?

kageds

DeVlaeminck said:

Out of interest given you've been doing this since before last Summer what kind of progress have you made - as you mention increasing FTP as an aim how has that gone?

In a year it is around 35/40 watts

kageds

imposter2.0 said:

kageds said:

im not training to race, just to improve my fitness and my FTP so that i can improve my times on the routes i take

So, ultimately, your goal is to spend less time cycling?

I think i will always keep the duration, i will add more distance to the route/s

bobmcstuff

hdow said:

From what you've posted I think you've got things a bit mixed up. Nothing but hard workouts generally don't improve your aerobic fitness. To improve you times on your routes (I assume these are longer than an hour) you need to do lots of zone 2 endurance work (at say 55-75% of FTP) supplemented by some of tempo (76-90% FTP), some at 91-105% FTP and even some shorter ones at even higher intensities. You should find that one high intensity workout for every four zone 2 workouts is optimal.

This is not good advice for someone only doing 3-4 hours a week. It is correct that doing the same workouts all the time won't help that much, but if OP followed this advice they would only be doing one hard workout every other week (as they are only doing 3-4 workouts a week in the first place), and the other week will be only zone 2. That's not going to help very much.

It is good advice if you are doing higher volume for sure - you can't do 15-odd hours a week of hard workouts, not for very long anyway (although I do 10-12 hours a week and my split doesn't look like that - but still I'm not doing 10-12 hours a week of threshold work, because that would be nuts)

Low volume training naturally means you need to be doing more sweetspot or threshold work relative to zone 1-2, otherwise there won't be enough stress to drive adaptation. Most low volume plans include quite a bit of sweetspot work.

If I was OP I would mix up the workouts a bit more and do it in blocks, try to do something a bit more progressive (so sweetspot intervals which get longer or harder as you move through the block), and then have rest periods after which you retest FTP and reset. But that's as much because I would get bored doing the same workouts all the time as because I think it will give better results. The one thing that I think might really help is adding in some work above FTP on a reasonably regular basis - not every ride - one a week maybe. And obviously shorter intervals, 2-5 minutes.

The other thing OP could look to do is try to add a bit of extra volume in (gradually) but appreciate it might not be possible

hdow

I'm disappointed that bobmcstuff doesn't think that my response was good advice. Perhaps I'm misreading the comments.
What I will say is that I know several cyclists who were in a fairly similar position to the OP (lots of high intensity but limited time) but changed to something along the lines of what I suggested and found their FTPs did improve and kept improving month after month. I'm not saying its the only way to achieve the OPs objectives and may not work for him. None of those cyclists reverted to their original ways and actually enjoyed their cycling. Obviously they retest their FTP every 6 to 8 weeks and reset their zones as you'd expect.
If it works, keeps on working and is well accepted by those doing the workouts it is good advice in my way of thinking. Neither the OP nor any other posters need to agree it is the best way forward but please don't disrespect those who do.
Regards

webboo

Where is the lack respect in Bob’s post.

bobmcstuff

hdow said:

I'm disappointed that bobmcstuff doesn't think that my response was good advice. Perhaps I'm misreading the comments.
What I will say is that I know several cyclists who were in a fairly similar position to the OP (lots of high intensity but limited time) but changed to something along the lines of what I suggested and found their FTPs did improve and kept improving month after month. I'm not saying its the only way to achieve the OPs objectives and may not work for him. None of those cyclists reverted to their original ways and actually enjoyed their cycling. Obviously they retest their FTP every 6 to 8 weeks and reset their zones as you'd expect.
If it works, keeps on working and is well accepted by those doing the workouts it is good advice in my way of thinking. Neither the OP nor any other posters need to agree it is the best way forward but please don't disrespect those who do.
Regards

I thought I was perfectly respectful... I just don't think it is good advice.

Doing 4 hours a week where almost all of it is zone 1/2 but with one hour every 2 weeks at zone 3/4 is not going to give good results. I'd challenge you to provide any evidence to support that as it flies in the face of all the scientific evidence as well as the numerous low volume training guidelines and systems - not to mention my own anecdotal experience and that of the other lower volume people I ride with (which ends up being a lot of riders with families etc.).

Note I *am not* suggesting people should do all 4 hours at FTP either! There is definitely a danger that low volume riders will do it all at full gas which is definitely no fun (to your point about being able to keep it going) and in the long run is not productive. That's definitely the trap I fell into when I first got into cycling.

I gave several suggestions for OP to mix up and vary their workouts a bit more, including some element of periodisation. I don't think any of that was especially controversial.