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UK based and ordering from EU bike shops

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  • bianchi_davebianchi_dave Posts: 699

    This PITA issue again - asking for a mate this time....
    Not at all clear from gov website. If my mate, who lives in Northern Ireland was to buy bike parts from an EU seller, would he get stung for UK vat?
    He says VAT is definitely not being charged at the EU point of sale.
    I've told him not to bother but the part he wants is out of stock across the UK.

    Bike 24 allows orders from NI. The website indicates that VAT is not included but my invoice showed the VAT charged at 20%, so I was under the impression VAT had been paid.
    Interestingly they have discriminated between NI and the rest of the UK for delivery purposes.
    I have ordered parts from them post Brexit and had them delivered - no issues. My order value though was just €85.

    From their website - Shipping and Handling section
    The order is delivered excl. VAT. In addition to the calculated Bike24 shipping costs customers not living in the EU have to pay the national VAT and duty in their country for the imported goods.
    Oversize and Overweight

    Heavier and oversize items may be subject to higher shipping and handling rates. Charges depend on your country and the ordered item. Please select your country to indicate this surcharge in product details.

    Import Taxes, Customs Duties and Fees / National VAT

    The order is delivered excl. VAT. In addition to the calculated Bike24 shipping costs customers not living in the EU have to pay the national VAT and duty in their country for the imported goods.


    I wonder what would happen if someone living in the UK (mainland) had something delivered to an address in NI. Would VAT be charged by courier prior to release of goods? I think it probably would be
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  • Ben6899Ben6899 Posts: 9,672

    This PITA issue again - asking for a mate this time....
    Not at all clear from gov website. If my mate, who lives in Northern Ireland was to buy bike parts from an EU seller, would he get stung for UK vat?
    He says VAT is definitely not being charged at the EU point of sale.
    I've told him not to bother but the part he wants is out of stock across the UK.

    Bike 24 allows orders from NI. The website indicates that VAT is not included but my invoice showed the VAT charged at 20%, so I was under the impression VAT had been paid.
    Interestingly they have discriminated between NI and the rest of the UK for delivery purposes.
    I have ordered parts from them post Brexit and had them delivered - no issues. My order value though was just €85.

    From their website - Shipping and Handling section
    The order is delivered excl. VAT. In addition to the calculated Bike24 shipping costs customers not living in the EU have to pay the national VAT and duty in their country for the imported goods.
    Oversize and Overweight

    Heavier and oversize items may be subject to higher shipping and handling rates. Charges depend on your country and the ordered item. Please select your country to indicate this surcharge in product details.

    Import Taxes, Customs Duties and Fees / National VAT

    The order is delivered excl. VAT. In addition to the calculated Bike24 shipping costs customers not living in the EU have to pay the national VAT and duty in their country for the imported goods.


    I wonder what would happen if someone living in the UK (mainland) had something delivered to an address in NI. Would VAT be charged by courier prior to release of goods? I think it probably would be

    Do you mean on the couriering of the goods from NI to mainland? That wouldn’t usually incur a charge, would it?
    Ben

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  • bianchi_davebianchi_dave Posts: 699




    I wonder what would happen if someone living in the UK (mainland) had something delivered to an address in NI. Would VAT be charged by courier prior to release of goods? I think it probably would be


    Do you mean on the couriering of the goods from NI to mainland? That wouldn’t usually incur a charge, would it?

    I'm thinking the courier would possible add vat before releasing the goods in NI, as they would do on UK mainland if importing from outside the UK.
    I wouldn't have thought vat would be charged by courier from NI to GB, but someone on holiday there could easily bring it back in luggage to avoid the possibility.
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  • Ben6899Ben6899 Posts: 9,672
    The courier wouldn’t add VAT - they’re just delivering to NI after all. They don’t care that you’re on the mainland.

    (this is how I order kit from the EU)
    Ben

    Bikes: Donhou DSS4 Custom | Condor Italia RC | Gios Megalite | Dolan Preffisio | Giant Bowery '76
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  • bianchi_davebianchi_dave Posts: 699
    Ben6899 said:

    The courier wouldn’t add VAT - they’re just delivering to NI after all. They don’t care that you’re on the mainland.

    (this is how I order kit from the EU)

    Are u based on UK mainland, and getting EU shops to deliver to an address in NI, thereby avoiding the vat? I'm not an investigator by the way!
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  • Ben6899Ben6899 Posts: 9,672
    edited July 2021

    Ben6899 said:

    The courier wouldn’t add VAT - they’re just delivering to NI after all. They don’t care that you’re on the mainland.

    (this is how I order kit from the EU)

    Are u based on UK mainland, and getting EU shops to deliver to an address in NI, thereby avoiding the vat? I'm not an investigator by the way!

    I'm not any of that. But I know someone who is. And it's what I would do, if I wanted something from the EU.

    It's no different to bringing something back from holiday. We all have done it, and I bet haven't declared when coming back into the UK [mainland].
    Ben

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  • ddraverddraver Posts: 24,981
    I should actually know the answer to this...

    NI remains in the single market so you shouldn't be charged any duty and pay VAT as you would in the EU (which is itself changing soon - delayed due to COVID).

    The problem is that that works grand if your package comes from e.g. Germany, to IE, to NI.

    The issues are coming up when goods follow the pre-existing supply routes which is to import to GB (pay duty and VAT), then move them to NI (potentially being charged duty again - though probably not on bike kit)

    Companies/couriers etc. are reorienting themselves slowly to take advantage of NI's position but constant political infighting and an unwillingness from the UK Government and the DUP to advertise that being in the single market is...good, actually!
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • bianchi_davebianchi_dave Posts: 699
    ddraver said:

    I should actually know the answer to this...

    NI remains in the single market so you shouldn't be charged any duty and pay VAT as you would in the EU (which is itself changing soon - delayed due to COVID).

    The problem is that that works grand if your package comes from e.g. Germany, to IE, to NI.

    The issues are coming up when goods follow the pre-existing supply routes which is to import to GB (pay duty and VAT), then move them to NI (potentially being charged duty again - though probably not on bike kit)

    Companies/couriers etc. are reorienting themselves slowly to take advantage of NI's position but constant political infighting and an unwillingness from the UK Government and the DUP to advertise that being in the single market is...good, actually!

    And of course, there's no guarantee which route the parcel would take! Some sites are quoting 6-8 days transit time, which tends to suggest they would go through GB first, as opposed to direct to IE or NI
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  • Ben6899Ben6899 Posts: 9,672
    edited July 2021
    Does anyone know ( @ddraver ) the official view of someone who would order from EU to EU and then transport the item to mainland UK separately (say by postage of a gift or bringing back next time they travel)?

    We were discussing it, in a meeting at work today. Colleague from mainland EU (living in mainland UK) thinking of sending something to their mum's house (mainland EU) and then stuffing it in their suitcase on the flight home after they visit in September.

    It just seems the whole thing is full of holes.
    Ben

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  • pblakeneypblakeney Posts: 21,241
    Ben6899 said:

    Does anyone know ( @ddraver ) the official view of someone who would order from EU to EU and then transport the item to mainland UK separately (say by postage of a gift or bringing back next time they travel)?

    We were discussing it, in a meeting at work today. Colleague from mainland EU (living in mainland UK) thinking of sending something to their mum's house (mainland EU) and then stuffing it in their suitcase on the flight home after they visit in September.

    It just seems the whole thing is full of holes.

    Not sure about the official line but stuffed suitcases and blagging customs were how things were done in "the good old days". Socks over bottles keep them quiet. 😉
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • Ben6899Ben6899 Posts: 9,672
    edited July 2021
    pblakeney said:

    Ben6899 said:

    Does anyone know ( @ddraver ) the official view of someone who would order from EU to EU and then transport the item to mainland UK separately (say by postage of a gift or bringing back next time they travel)?

    We were discussing it, in a meeting at work today. Colleague from mainland EU (living in mainland UK) thinking of sending something to their mum's house (mainland EU) and then stuffing it in their suitcase on the flight home after they visit in September.

    It just seems the whole thing is full of holes.

    Not sure about the official line but stuffed suitcases and blagging customs were how things were done in "the good old days". Socks over bottles keep them quiet. 😉

    My response in the meeting - although I didn't recommend!* - was exactly that.

    *mate of mine was caught with a golf bag full of B&H...
    Ben

    Bikes: Donhou DSS4 Custom | Condor Italia RC | Gios Megalite | Dolan Preffisio | Giant Bowery '76
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  • pblakeneypblakeney Posts: 21,241
    edited July 2021
    My Gran used to get the customs guys to carry her bags as they were too heavy. 🤣🤣🤣
    Other trick was a small suitcase inside a bigger one going out with the bigger one to be full of contraband on return.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • mrb123mrb123 Posts: 3,979
    edited July 2021
    pblakeney said:

    My Gran used to get the customs guys to carry her bags as they were too heavy. 🤣🤣🤣

    Were you using her as your mule??
  • pblakeneypblakeney Posts: 21,241
    mrb123 said:

    pblakeney said:

    My Gran used to get the customs guys to carry her bags as they were too heavy. 🤣🤣🤣

    Were you using her as your mule??
    I think I was about 12 at the time. Learned a lot though. 😉
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • ddraverddraver Posts: 24,981
    edited July 2021
    pblakeney said:

    Ben6899 said:

    Does anyone know ( @ddraver ) the official view of someone who would order from EU to EU and then transport the item to mainland UK separately (say by postage of a gift or bringing back next time they travel)?

    We were discussing it, in a meeting at work today. Colleague from mainland EU (living in mainland UK) thinking of sending something to their mum's house (mainland EU) and then stuffing it in their suitcase on the flight home after they visit in September.

    It just seems the whole thing is full of holes.

    Not sure about the official line but stuffed suitcases and blagging customs were how things were done in "the good old days". Socks over bottles keep them quiet. 😉
    Goods in Baggage (below a certain value - I think 1000EUR) can be carried with no declaration unless the goods are 'controlled'. So again, you'd be ok with some Bike shorts, but a whole bike would be trouble

    There is no such thing as a gift when it comes to Customs. Everything has a value on which Duty and VAT are charged (alongside Freight and Insurance).

    Most commonly this would happen to our MTB Brethren in the early 2000's who'd go on holiday to the US, buy a bike at literally half price, then have to risk customs at Heathrow. It's now the same GB to EU and vice versa (sOVwEntY!!)

    Alcohol is controlled (Excise) so you should declare that. Inevitably there is some leeway though in the form of personal allowance.
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • bianchi_davebianchi_dave Posts: 699
    pblakeney said:

    My Gran used to get the customs guys to carry her bags as they were too heavy. 🤣🤣🤣
    Other trick was a small suitcase inside a bigger one going out with the bigger one to be full of contraband on return.

    It seems we're heading back to the good ol' days of rip off Britain. All these sports will be making a comeback - part of the excitement* of going abroad.

    *does not include being taken aside and having a pipe cleaner shoved up your censored
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  • Ben6899Ben6899 Posts: 9,672
    ddraver said:

    pblakeney said:

    Ben6899 said:

    Does anyone know ( @ddraver ) the official view of someone who would order from EU to EU and then transport the item to mainland UK separately (say by postage of a gift or bringing back next time they travel)?

    We were discussing it, in a meeting at work today. Colleague from mainland EU (living in mainland UK) thinking of sending something to their mum's house (mainland EU) and then stuffing it in their suitcase on the flight home after they visit in September.

    It just seems the whole thing is full of holes.

    Not sure about the official line but stuffed suitcases and blagging customs were how things were done in "the good old days". Socks over bottles keep them quiet. 😉
    Goods in Baggage (below a certain value - I think 1000EUR) can be carried with no declaration unless the goods are 'controlled'. So again, you'd be ok with some Bike shorts, but a whole bike would be trouble

    There is no such thing as a gift when it comes to Customs. Everything has a value on which Duty and VAT are charged (alongside Freight and Insurance).

    Most commonly this would happen to our MTB Brethren in the early 2000's who'd go on holiday to the US, buy a bike at literally half price, then have to risk customs at Heathrow. It's now the same GB to EU and vice versa (sOVwEntY!!)

    Alcohol is controlled (Excise) so you should declare that. Inevitably there is some leeway though in the form of personal allowance.

    Thank you, this is good advice. 1000Euro is quite generous, in all fairness*.

    *I'll tell them to check
    Ben

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  • daniel_bdaniel_b Posts: 10,561
    edited July 2021
    I'm not sure what is going on with customs at the moment, unless they are just swamped with all of the extra work.

    I've placed two orders this year with lordgun bicycles (£50ish and £125), and neither have incurred any extra fees.
    Also an order from Australia, and that got through as well.
    And somewhere else in the EU whose name I forget.

    Clearly I am not complaining, but was rather surprised.
    *Fairly confident that a long enough time period has passed that I am unlikely to recieve a letter or e-mail requesting extra funds.

    On a fairly unrelated note - at some point (Next year probably) I am planning to drive to Italy, and take multiple bikes with me - one bike (not new) I aim to leave with my brother, for him to use, and for me to use should I want to fly over in the future.

    I'm assuming customs won't be counting the bikes out and back in, and would they care even?

    How I miss the times when this kind of thing was not even remotely a consideration :s
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  • Ben6899Ben6899 Posts: 9,672
    edited July 2021
    daniel_b said:

    On a fairly unrelated note - at some point (Next year probably) I am planning to drive to Italy, and take multiple bikes with me - one bike (not new) I aim to leave with my brother, for him to use, and for me to use should I want to fly over in the future.

    I'm assuming customs won't be counting the bikes out and back in, and would they care even?

    I took a bike from here to Germany, for the first time last September... because we drove and I trust my boot packing skills over baggage handling skills! :smiley:

    No one batted an eyelid. They checked our passports and swabbed the steering wheel for Class A remnants, on the way out, and on the way back they checked our passports and nothing else (didn't even request our Covid Whereabouts forms).

    A very relaxed experience, I doubt anyone in a private car gets pulled over for further searches unless there's weed pluming out of the windows or the swab indicates you regularly snort cocaine off hookers' chests.
    Ben

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  • bianchi_davebianchi_dave Posts: 699
    daniel_b said:

    I'm not sure what is going on with customs at the moment, unless they are just swamped with all of the extra work.

    I've placed two orders this year with lordgun bicycles (£50ish and £125), and neither have incurred any extra fees.
    Also an order from Australia, and that got through as well.
    And somewhere else in the EU whose name I forget.

    Clearly I am not complaining, but was rather surprised.
    *Fairly confident that a long enough time period has passed that I am unlikely to recieve a letter or e-mail requesting extra funds.

    On a fairly unrelated note - at some point (Next year probably) I am planning to drive to Italy, and take multiple bikes with me - one bike (not new) I aim to leave with my brother, for him to use, and for me to use should I want to fly over in the future.

    I'm assuming customs won't be counting the bikes out and back in, and would they care even?

    How I miss the times when this kind of thing was not even remotely a consideration :s

    It will be the value Daniel - if under £135 orders are exempt from customs charges, but you should still have been charged VAT at point of sale.

    I'm certain customs officers would not have the time, or the inclination to count your bikes out of the country!
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  • daniel_bdaniel_b Posts: 10,561

    daniel_b said:

    I'm not sure what is going on with customs at the moment, unless they are just swamped with all of the extra work.

    I've placed two orders this year with lordgun bicycles (£50ish and £125), and neither have incurred any extra fees.
    Also an order from Australia, and that got through as well.
    And somewhere else in the EU whose name I forget.

    Clearly I am not complaining, but was rather surprised.
    *Fairly confident that a long enough time period has passed that I am unlikely to recieve a letter or e-mail requesting extra funds.

    On a fairly unrelated note - at some point (Next year probably) I am planning to drive to Italy, and take multiple bikes with me - one bike (not new) I aim to leave with my brother, for him to use, and for me to use should I want to fly over in the future.

    I'm assuming customs won't be counting the bikes out and back in, and would they care even?

    How I miss the times when this kind of thing was not even remotely a consideration :s

    It will be the value Daniel - if under £135 orders are exempt from customs charges, but you should still have been charged VAT at point of sale.

    I'm certain customs officers would not have the time, or the inclination to count your bikes out of the country!
    Ah yes sorry, I didn't mean customs charges, I meant 20% VAT and the delightful admin fee that the couriers slap on top.

    My Aussie order was about £170 I think, so should have been hit with everything - quite a win there!
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  • MattFalleMattFalle Posts: 10,942
    Alltricks in France, who are utterly mega, have now stopped delivering to Britain.

    #gutted

    #fuckyoubrexit
  • daniel_bdaniel_b Posts: 10,561
    MattFalle said:

    Alltricks in France, who are utterly mega, have now stopped delivering to Britain.

    #gutted

    #fuckyoubrexit

    censored isn't it.

    Bike DE are awesome, but you now have to spend over £175 before they will ship.
    Others I used to use simply don't ship at all.
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  • ballysmateballysmate Posts: 15,903
    Just ordered a chainring from Mantel.
    We shall see.
  • Just ordered a chainring from Mantel.
    We shall see.

    I got some tyres a little while ago from mantel. Almost next day delivery, and I live in the sticks!
  • daniel_bdaniel_b Posts: 10,561
    edited July 2021

    Just ordered a chainring from Mantel.
    We shall see.

    @ballysmate update please with the outcome if you remember, I used to use Mantel fairly often when the uk was a bit more sane.

    Just ordered a chainring from Mantel.
    We shall see.

    I got some tyres a little while ago from mantel. Almost next day delivery, and I live in the sticks!
    @jimbohorizontal - when did you order roughly, and no fees at all?
    *Just noted Mantel state they can only send orders up to a value of £135.
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  • ballysmateballysmate Posts: 15,903
    Ordered late yesterday afternoon. Got email last night saying had been shipped. Checked Ups this morning and is showing 'delayed'. No reason given.
  • daniel_b said:

    Just ordered a chainring from Mantel.
    We shall see.

    @ballysmate update please with the outcome if you remember, I used to use Mantel fairly often when the uk was a bit more sane.

    Just ordered a chainring from Mantel.
    We shall see.

    I got some tyres a little while ago from mantel. Almost next day delivery, and I live in the sticks!
    @jimbohorizontal - when did you order roughly, and no fees at all?
    *Just noted Mantel state they can only send orders up to a value of £135.
    21st April, the order was £70 plus a tenner delivery, still cheaper than the cheapest on this side of the channel. No fees.

    But, yea, the maximum order value was stated as £135 then too.
  • ballysmateballysmate Posts: 15,903

    Ordered late yesterday afternoon. Got email last night saying had been shipped. Checked Ups this morning and is showing 'delayed'. No reason given.

    Delay over and it is again on its way.
  • ballysmateballysmate Posts: 15,903
    Right.
    Ordered a 105 chainring at 17.30 on Tuesday. Website listed the price £49.70, including any all fees. UPS delivery was £9.99.
    At 20.10 I received an email to say it was dispatched.
    Arrived today, Friday at 11.33.

    Really painless and would definitely use again.
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