UK based and ordering from EU bike shops

kingstongraham

mrb123 said:

kingstongraham said:

mrb123 said:

This is all about as clear as mud...

I'm wanting to order something from TrekInn (Spanish company) for £120. The Government website says...
"You will not have to pay anything to the delivery company to receive goods worth less than £135 unless they’re gifts over £39 or excise goods (for example, alcohol and tobacco)."

Which sounds fairly clear. But then further down the page...
"Goods worth £135 or less in total

If you bought the goods yourself and they are not excise goods, the seller will have included VAT in the total you paid."

I have contacted the company who say that they don't include any VAT in the price.

So sounds like I could still be stung for VAT...

Is the price lower than you would have paid for delivery to Spain?

The price is a lot better than any UK retailers are offering.

My concern is that if I have to make a return (it's an item of clothing so might not fit) I'll be down the cost of postage both ways plus possibly the VAT and courier's admin charge which I guess I'd never get back.

Can get the same item from Alpinetrek for about 30 quid more, but they state on their website that VAT is included so should be nothing further to pay hopefully.

That's a different question - if they are also offering the same to a customer in Spain, that price would include Spanish VAT.

mrb123

kingstongraham said:

mrb123 said:

kingstongraham said:

mrb123 said:

This is all about as clear as mud...

I'm wanting to order something from TrekInn (Spanish company) for £120. The Government website says...
"You will not have to pay anything to the delivery company to receive goods worth less than £135 unless they’re gifts over £39 or excise goods (for example, alcohol and tobacco)."

Which sounds fairly clear. But then further down the page...
"Goods worth £135 or less in total

If you bought the goods yourself and they are not excise goods, the seller will have included VAT in the total you paid."

I have contacted the company who say that they don't include any VAT in the price.

So sounds like I could still be stung for VAT...

Is the price lower than you would have paid for delivery to Spain?

The price is a lot better than any UK retailers are offering.

My concern is that if I have to make a return (it's an item of clothing so might not fit) I'll be down the cost of postage both ways plus possibly the VAT and courier's admin charge which I guess I'd never get back.

Can get the same item from Alpinetrek for about 30 quid more, but they state on their website that VAT is included so should be nothing further to pay hopefully.

That's a different question - if they are also offering the same to a customer in Spain, that price would include Spanish VAT.

Yeah, price in Euros for delivery to Spain is 133 which must include Spanish VAT as you say.

Am minded to order from Alpinetrek as at least they have a stated policy that the customer will have nothing extra to pay on delivery. Can also get a few % cashback on Quidco/TCB.

kingstongraham

mrb123 said:

kingstongraham said:

mrb123 said:

kingstongraham said:

mrb123 said:

This is all about as clear as mud...

I'm wanting to order something from TrekInn (Spanish company) for £120. The Government website says...
"You will not have to pay anything to the delivery company to receive goods worth less than £135 unless they’re gifts over £39 or excise goods (for example, alcohol and tobacco)."

Which sounds fairly clear. But then further down the page...
"Goods worth £135 or less in total

If you bought the goods yourself and they are not excise goods, the seller will have included VAT in the total you paid."

I have contacted the company who say that they don't include any VAT in the price.

So sounds like I could still be stung for VAT...

Is the price lower than you would have paid for delivery to Spain?

The price is a lot better than any UK retailers are offering.

My concern is that if I have to make a return (it's an item of clothing so might not fit) I'll be down the cost of postage both ways plus possibly the VAT and courier's admin charge which I guess I'd never get back.

Can get the same item from Alpinetrek for about 30 quid more, but they state on their website that VAT is included so should be nothing further to pay hopefully.

That's a different question - if they are also offering the same to a customer in Spain, that price would include Spanish VAT.

Yeah, price in Euros for delivery to Spain is 133 which must include Spanish VAT as you say.

Am minded to order from Alpinetrek as at least they have a stated policy that the customer will have nothing extra to pay on delivery. Can also get a few % cashback on Quidco/TCB.

If the Spanish price is €133, that would be €110 excluding 21% Spanish VAT, retailer's exchange rate maybe 1.10 to the £, would mean you should be paying about £100+VAT (+delivery). Which is your £120. So either they are charging and declaring the VAT correctly, but whoever you spoke to just doesn't realise it, or you'll get stung for another £24 + charges when it arrives.

mrb123

kingstongraham said:

mrb123 said:

kingstongraham said:

mrb123 said:

kingstongraham said:

mrb123 said:

This is all about as clear as mud...

I'm wanting to order something from TrekInn (Spanish company) for £120. The Government website says...
"You will not have to pay anything to the delivery company to receive goods worth less than £135 unless they’re gifts over £39 or excise goods (for example, alcohol and tobacco)."

Which sounds fairly clear. But then further down the page...
"Goods worth £135 or less in total

If you bought the goods yourself and they are not excise goods, the seller will have included VAT in the total you paid."

I have contacted the company who say that they don't include any VAT in the price.

So sounds like I could still be stung for VAT...

Is the price lower than you would have paid for delivery to Spain?

The price is a lot better than any UK retailers are offering.

My concern is that if I have to make a return (it's an item of clothing so might not fit) I'll be down the cost of postage both ways plus possibly the VAT and courier's admin charge which I guess I'd never get back.

Can get the same item from Alpinetrek for about 30 quid more, but they state on their website that VAT is included so should be nothing further to pay hopefully.

That's a different question - if they are also offering the same to a customer in Spain, that price would include Spanish VAT.

Yeah, price in Euros for delivery to Spain is 133 which must include Spanish VAT as you say.

Am minded to order from Alpinetrek as at least they have a stated policy that the customer will have nothing extra to pay on delivery. Can also get a few % cashback on Quidco/TCB.

If the Spanish price is €133, that would be €110 excluding 21% Spanish VAT, retailer's exchange rate maybe 1.10 to the £, would mean you should be paying about £100+VAT (+delivery). Which is your £120. So either they are charging and declaring the VAT correctly, but whoever you spoke to just doesn't realise it, or you'll get stung for another £24 + charges when it arrives.

Their website states:
- For orders being shipped to countries out of the European Union, no VAT and no sales tax will be included in the product prices you see on our website and you will not be charged any taxes by us. However your packages may be subject to the customs fees and import duties of the country to which you have your order shipped. The courier will charge you any taxes or customs directly.

That obviously ties in with what I was told in response to my enquiry, but not with the comparative pricing as you say. Not sure I'm prepared to gamble...

First.Aspect

Fundamentally, and this is kind of part of the point of Brexit, it should be cheaper to import from outside the EU directly to the UK and sell from here. The government would say that's better for the UK economy than buying from the EU. I'm afraid.

pblakeney

First.Aspect said:

Fundamentally, and this is kind of part of the point of Brexit, it should be cheaper to import from outside the EU directly to the UK and sell from here. The government would say that's better for the UK economy than buying from the EU. I'm afraid.

You'd think so, but doesn't a lot of ROTW imports come via Europe?
That's quite the issue.

kingstongraham

First.Aspect said:

Fundamentally, and this is kind of part of the point of Brexit, it should be cheaper to import from outside the EU directly to the UK and sell from here. The government would say that's better for the UK economy than buying from the EU. I'm afraid.

Yes, it seems to mean that any company in the UK or the EU who wishes to import and distribute in both now has to have two separate supply routes and pools of stock. It's an increase in GDP I guess.

First.Aspect

kingstongraham said:

First.Aspect said:

Fundamentally, and this is kind of part of the point of Brexit, it should be cheaper to import from outside the EU directly to the UK and sell from here. The government would say that's better for the UK economy than buying from the EU. I'm afraid.

Yes, it seems to mean that any company in the UK or the EU who wishes to import and distribute in both now has to have two separate supply routes and pools of stock. It's an increase in GDP I guess.

I'm not arguing that it is a good thing. Merely that this is what the rules will make happen.

I'm pretty sure that availability of some European brands insufficiently manufactured there will become nil or they will be priced out of the UK market.

Also I wonder whether the goods equivalent of the booze cruise might become a thing. Will be hard to police what you had in the car on the way there...

orraloon

Opportunities for those Cornish fishermen who didn't quite think it through then... Smugglers' Cove here we come. Beware the Exciseman.

loltoride

Is the price lower than you would have paid for delivery to Spain?

The price is a lot better than any UK retailers are offering.

My concern is that if I have to make a return (it's an item of clothing so might not fit) I'll be down the cost of postage both ways plus possibly the VAT and courier's admin charge which I guess I'd never get back.

Can get the same item from Alpinetrek for about 30 quid more, but they state on their website that VAT is included so should be nothing further to pay hopefully.

Alpinetrek are doing really well but the UK is there biggest market so no surprise only issue is with returns they quote about 3-5 weeks to refund. All UK returns are going to a fulfillment house in Ipswich then consolidated as a large movement, they are just struggling with the import paperwork.

loltoride

That obviously ties in with what I was told in response to my enquiry, but not with the comparative pricing as you say. Not sure I'm prepared to gamble...

There website is extremely clear under £135 will include duties & taxes for UK delivery's.

mrb123

There website is extremely clear under £135 will include duties & taxes for UK delivery's.

Do you have a link to where that is stated?

moonshine

i bought a new pair of Scarpa mountain boots from trekkinn in early Jan 21 (i couldn't get supply from a UK retailer im my size) they were £200.
i paid for RM postage of £8ish at the checkout and was prepared to pay for VAT and Import duty.
they came in 10 days via Netherlands to UK in RM SD labelled package (tracked from spain) and were delivered by RM with no VAT or customs duty to pay... i don't know how / why... but i was expecting it

loltoride

mrb123 said:

There website is extremely clear under £135 will include duties & taxes for UK delivery's.

Do you have a link to where that is stated?


There you go I have even pick out a coat for you - https://www.alpinetrek.co.uk/jack-wolfskin-womens-crystal-palace-coat-coat/?cnid=4518a63771446f967c96e1f36b048

mrb123

loltoride said:

mrb123 said:

There website is extremely clear under £135 will include duties & taxes for UK delivery's.

Do you have a link to where that is stated?


There you go I have even pick out a coat for you - https://www.alpinetrek.co.uk/jack-wolfskin-womens-crystal-palace-coat-coat/?cnid=4518a63771446f967c96e1f36b048



Ah, we're at cross purposes, thought you were referring to TrekInn.

Alpinetrek do clearly state that all taxes and charges are included in their prices for UK purchases.

loltoride

mrb123 said:

loltoride said:

mrb123 said:

There website is extremely clear under £135 will include duties & taxes for UK delivery's.

Do you have a link to where that is stated?

There you go I have even pick out a coat for you - https://www.alpinetrek.co.uk/jack-wolfskin-womens-crystal-palace-coat-coat/?cnid=4518a63771446f967c96e1f36b048



Ah, we're at cross purposes, thought you were referring to TrekInn.

Alpinetrek do clearly state that all taxes and charges are included in their prices for UK purchases.



Easy to happen.

bianchi_dave

Just went on to IBK to take a punt on those shoes but they've went up in price since the other day! On top of that I appear to have lost a 10% discount code I had.

However, it now states on order that all taxes and customs duty are included in price.

Snooze you lose I guess, it was far too bloody much to spend on shoes anyway, so its probably just as well!

daniel_b

I said I wasn't going to buy anything from the EU after Jan 1st, but then some ex pro team kit came up, and has that team has now changed, I knew it was likely my last chance to nab new kit.

Ebay added 20% on, but am hoping I won't be hit with additional fees.

The other two items were from a Dutch website I have used before several times - and they had something on their website to say they would refund if VAT was charged, but by the time I had ordered it said they had the paperwork in place, but i was still hit with a £45 bill, £11 of which was admin fee.
I e-mailed them and very kindly they have refunded me the duty amount, but looks like that was a one off.

So those are 99% likely to be my last purchases from outside the UK for a pretty long time - my bro lives in Italy, so I could get him to order some items for me I guess, but seems the need will be unlikely, and I'm going to stop looking at those sites so I'm not tempted when I realise about all the added costs, and issues with returns.
With the payal refunded returns, it really used to be just as easy as buying from anywhere in this country - aren't decent trade agreements wonderful.

pblakeney

Yeah! Go Brexit!
#shitemoji

thecycleclinic

Up to £15 declared value no charges.

£15 to £135 20% vat levied at point of sale. If vat is not charged at point of sale by the retailer you may get a punitive import charge. Vat has to be charged at point of sale.

Above £135 custom clearance charge and 20% import vat applies.
Official hmrc exchange rate should be used by customs. You will be billed by the parcel carrier.

On line marketplaces have to levy u.k vat on every transaction.

Same rules apply selling to the eu from july 1st do i will have to register for vat in the netherlands or other member state and file returns.

Happy brexit everyone.

thecycleclinic

Returns have a declared value and the receiver will be billed import charges. Hence don't buy from abroad and expect a right of return. Distance selling laws apply with the u.k or the e.u. they don't cross boarders.

kingstongraham

thecycleclinic said:

Up to £15 declared value no charges.

£15 to £135 20% vat levied at point of sale. If vat is not charged at point of sale by the retailer you may get a punitive import charge. Vat has to be charged at point of sale.

Above £135 custom clearance charge and 20% import vat applies.
Official hmrc exchange rate should be used by customs. You will be billed by the parcel carrier.

On line marketplaces have to levy u.k vat on every transaction.

Same rules apply selling to the eu from july 1st do i will have to register for vat in the netherlands or other member state and file returns.

Happy brexit everyone.

The £15 threshold no longer exists after jan 1st.

thistle_

daniel_b said:

With the payal refunded returns, it really used to be just as easy as buying from anywhere in this country - aren't decent trade agreements wonderful.

Do Paypal still cover the cost of returns from UK to EU, or is it just UK to UK now? (or they cover shipping back to the EU but not duties/taxes).

thecycleclinic

kingstongraham said:

thecycleclinic said:

Up to £15 declared value no charges.

£15 to £135 20% vat levied at point of sale. If vat is not charged at point of sale by the retailer you may get a punitive import charge. Vat has to be charged at point of sale.

Above £135 custom clearance charge and 20% import vat applies.
Official hmrc exchange rate should be used by customs. You will be billed by the parcel carrier.

On line marketplaces have to levy u.k vat on every transaction.

Same rules apply selling to the eu from july 1st do i will have to register for vat in the netherlands or other member state and file returns.

Happy brexit everyone.

The £15 threshold no longer exists after jan 1st.

I mis read. It has been removed. That mirrors what the eu will be doing from july 1st. Appologies for that errot.

ddraver

I lived in Switzerland for the last 4 winters (can't now - thanks Brexit) and they have a similar set up to what the UK is now discovering it has.

The reality is that constant big discounts from online stores is over now. We pay RRP (maybe -3 or 4%).

Yes, end of season stuff will go on sale but they days of buying a current groupset for 45% off from a german mega-site are over.

(blue passports though!)

bianchi_dave

This PITA issue again - asking for a mate this time....
Not at all clear from gov website. If my mate, who lives in Northern Ireland was to buy bike parts from an EU seller, would he get stung for UK vat?
He says VAT is definitely not being charged at the EU point of sale.
I've told him not to bother but the part he wants is out of stock across the UK.

Ben6899

Does he have a mate just over the border in RoI, who he could have it sent to?

I ordered one of those Merci Poupou Alpecin-Fenix jerseys from the Netherlands, and I've had it posted to Germany. I didn't vote for any of these extra charges so I sure as hell ain't voluntarily paying them.

bianchi_dave

Ben6899 said:

Does he have a mate just over the border in RoI, who he could have it sent to?

I ordered one of those Merci Poupou Alpecin-Fenix jerseys from the Netherlands, and I've had it posted to Germany. I didn't vote for any of these extra charges so I sure as hell ain't voluntarily paying them.

No I don't, sorry, I mean he doesn't! I agree with you. This is a total shit show

daniel_b

thistle_ said:

daniel_b said:

With the payal refunded returns, it really used to be just as easy as buying from anywhere in this country - aren't decent trade agreements wonderful.

Do Paypal still cover the cost of returns from UK to EU, or is it just UK to UK now? (or they cover shipping back to the EU but not duties/taxes).

Sorry, missed this - not had a reason to use it, but hadn't heard anything about it being changed to UK only.
They definitely would not be covering duties or taxes, that would be up to the recipient I guess.

wotnoshoeseh

bianchi_dave said:

This PITA issue again - asking for a mate this time....
Not at all clear from gov website. If my mate, who lives in Northern Ireland was to buy bike parts from an EU seller, would he get stung for UK vat?
He says VAT is definitely not being charged at the EU point of sale.
I've told him not to bother but the part he wants is out of stock across the UK.

Bike 24 allows orders from NI. The website indicates that VAT is not included but my invoice showed the VAT charged at 20%, so I was under the impression VAT had been paid.
Interestingly they have discriminated between NI and the rest of the UK for delivery purposes.
I have ordered parts from them post Brexit and had them delivered - no issues. My order value though was just €85.

From their website - Shipping and Handling section
The order is delivered excl. VAT. In addition to the calculated Bike24 shipping costs customers not living in the EU have to pay the national VAT and duty in their country for the imported goods.
Oversize and Overweight

Heavier and oversize items may be subject to higher shipping and handling rates. Charges depend on your country and the ordered item. Please select your country to indicate this surcharge in product details.

Import Taxes, Customs Duties and Fees / National VAT

The order is delivered excl. VAT. In addition to the calculated Bike24 shipping costs customers not living in the EU have to pay the national VAT and duty in their country for the imported goods.