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Free Speech

Since Twitter decided to ban Trump (but only when it was financially expedient to do so). Parler has also been taken off line.

this time because Apple and Google and Amazon have decided according to the CEO.

It appears that the content we receive will now only be content that is approved of by left leaning technology companies that pay minimal tax, resist scrutiny and have turnovers and cash reserves bigger than the gdp of all but the biggest countries.

this is a shift in power not seen since the British East India Company and that ended well too.

They arent just technology companies, theyre publishers with a direct line into every phone and pc in the world (barring those countries where soveriegn governments are in charge). It's time to break them up.

And if you applaud the censoring of anything right of centre, remember your own views may easily be decided to be wrong in the very near future.





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Posts

  • ProssPross Posts: 24,960
    They're private companies offering a service under their terms and conditions. If you're so bothered why not set up a rival company allowing people to publish anything they want? Newspapers have been editorialising and selecting what they publish for centuries even claiming to have helped Governments win elections in the process so why is it only now you are bothered?

    The people who have created this change in policy (and therefore your so called restrictions on free speech) are those who have abused the platform to spread misinformation, propoganda and complete bullshit. That's not the same thing as free speech.
  • ddraverddraver Posts: 20,833
    The Horror! Right Wingers in Britain now only have The Daily Mail, The Mail on Sunday, The Telegraph, The Sun, The Times, The express, Talk Radio, 95% of LBC, The Spectator, Spiked....

    Imagine!
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • david37david37 Posts: 723
    Pross said:

    They're private companies offering a service under their terms and conditions. If you're so bothered why not set up a rival company allowing people to publish anything they want? Newspapers have been editorialising and selecting what they publish for centuries even claiming to have helped Governments win elections in the process so why is it only now you are bothered?

    The people who have created this change in policy (and therefore your so called restrictions on free speech) are those who have abused the platform to spread misinformation, propoganda and complete bullshit. That's not the same thing as free speech.

    its precisely because they are private companies offering this service that they should be controlled. because they have too much influence.

    As for starting your own version...... Parler was dong that but had to rely on Amazon for the tech.

    they are judge jury and executioner. i didnt see them banning rap stars with millions of followers who directly called for violence against white people.
  • david37david37 Posts: 723
    ddraver said:

    The Horror! Right Wingers in Britain now only have The Daily Mail, The Mail on Sunday, The Telegraph, The Sun, The Times, The express, Talk Radio, 95% of LBC, The Spectator, Spiked....

    Imagine!

    yes imagine that, only allowed to have opinions on outdated low volume distribution networks. be careful what you wish for
  • pangolinpangolin Posts: 2,780
    There are winners and losers with every change David. This is a great opportunity for a plucky young right wing tech company to start offering hosting solutions.
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  • ddraverddraver Posts: 20,833
    :D
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • david37david37 Posts: 723
    pangolin said:

    There are winners and losers with every change David. This is a great opportunity for a plucky young right wing tech company to start offering hosting solutions.

    the winners are the tech companies, the losers are everyone else. unless being a force fed supplicant to be milked is your idea of a good thing.


  • DeVlaeminckDeVlaeminck Posts: 6,250
    edited 11 January
    I've no idea what Parler is (well I just googled it) but the influence of private companies on what can and can't be discussed is a serious issue.

    I'd be tempted to say that it is wrong that say a company with the influence of Facebook or Twitter can censor discussion which is not illegal and which is not going to open the company itself up to damage.

    If that damage is some kind of legal action then it seems straightforward but reputational damage is more difficult.

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  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 51,817 Lives Here
    edited 11 January
    Were you on parlour, David?
  • ProssPross Posts: 24,960
    Why was no-one so bothered when newspapers were the main / only source of information for many and, in the UK, were primarily focussed to the right of centre? Why should any company be compelled to be associated with people saying things they disagree with? Sure, it's reasonable to say that they have created their own problem by enabling people to say pretty much whatever they want for the last decade or so but ultimately people can choose to not use them.
  • elbowlohelbowloh Posts: 3,208
    Twitter have only suspended Trump.

    there are still millions of other idiots on there you can listen to.

    Take ya pick.
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  • pblakeneypblakeney Posts: 13,799
    Diddums.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
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  • orraloonorraloon Posts: 7,262
    How does that Alanis M song go again...?
  • blazing_saddlesblazing_saddles Posts: 15,988
    Fortunately these nasty private companies weren't around at the time to slap a muzzle on Hitler's free speech.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • morstarmorstar Posts: 3,717
    Everybody has a democratic choice to not use Twitter every single day.

    The internet is largely uncensored. That a particular company takes certain actions with regard to their own app is nothing to do with free speech.

    As said already and on Trump thread. Start your own platform. Trump has the resources.

    Would make a great echo chamber.
  • orraloonorraloon Posts: 7,262

    Fortunately these nasty private companies weren't around at the time to slap a muzzle on Hitler's free speech.

    Yebbut, the democratically liberal Daily Mail actively opposed... oh hang on a minute...
  • veronese68veronese68 Posts: 23,236 Lives Here
    Is the snowflake getting upset?
  • rjsterryrjsterry Posts: 18,640
    david37 said:

    Pross said:

    They're private companies offering a service under their terms and conditions. If you're so bothered why not set up a rival company allowing people to publish anything they want? Newspapers have been editorialising and selecting what they publish for centuries even claiming to have helped Governments win elections in the process so why is it only now you are bothered?

    The people who have created this change in policy (and therefore your so called restrictions on free speech) are those who have abused the platform to spread misinformation, propoganda and complete bullshit. That's not the same thing as free speech.

    its precisely because they are private companies offering this service that they should be controlled. because they have too much influence.

    As for starting your own version...... Parler was dong that but had to rely on Amazon for the tech.

    they are judge jury and executioner. i didnt see them banning rap stars with millions of followers who directly called for violence against white people.
    Firstly, the right to free speech is the right to not be arrested for saying something, not the right to the provision of a social media platform. Incitement to violence is already considered outside the limits of freedom of speech. The president is always free to call a press conference or just stand in the park and shout at whoever will listen.
    I'm not convinced that the current outcry is that different from the advent of cheap printing. The 17th and 18th centuries were full of political agitators suddenly having the means to reach hundreds of people with printed pamphlets, and various attempts by the authorities to control this. It took us until the mid 20th century to finally agree the rules for publishing.
    That said, I do think providers of social media need to get off the fence and stop pretending that they aren't effectively publishers. Less of a monopoly would be good, too.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
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  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 51,817 Lives Here
    Look, in fairness to David, there is a discussion to be had about the role of social media in terms of how free speech is managed on them.

    The problem is the OP is unlikely to have complained had, say, Nicolás Maduro been banned.
  • TheBigBeanTheBigBean Posts: 11,494
    morstar said:

    Everybody has a democratic choice to not use Twitter every single day.

    The internet is largely uncensored. That a particular company takes certain actions with regard to their own app is nothing to do with free speech.

    As said already and on Trump thread. Start your own platform. Trump has the resources.

    Would make a great echo chamber.

    It's not that simple. Should his ISP cease to provide internet? Should his mobile phone company kick him off? When companies have become sufficiently dominate that they are either a monopoly or part of an oligopoly, then they need to be regulated. That is what should happen here - Trump could be removed for breach of regulations (set by independent regulator based on law), but not for political reasons.

    There is the same problem with visa/mastercard. Political pressure can lead to loss of service e.g. wikileaks.








  • sungodsungod Posts: 12,989
    edited 11 January
    pblakeney said:

    Diddums.

    ^^^this

    freedom of speech is not an obligation on others to help spread your message

    it's a standard fascist strategy to use societal freedoms to in their goal to subvert the societies that offer them, once fascists gain control there is no more freedom

    lesson of history: you don't tolerate fascists, you suppress them and if necessary you crush them

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  • elbowlohelbowloh Posts: 3,208
    rjsterry said:

    david37 said:

    Pross said:

    They're private companies offering a service under their terms and conditions. If you're so bothered why not set up a rival company allowing people to publish anything they want? Newspapers have been editorialising and selecting what they publish for centuries even claiming to have helped Governments win elections in the process so why is it only now you are bothered?

    The people who have created this change in policy (and therefore your so called restrictions on free speech) are those who have abused the platform to spread misinformation, propoganda and complete bullshit. That's not the same thing as free speech.

    its precisely because they are private companies offering this service that they should be controlled. because they have too much influence.

    As for starting your own version...... Parler was dong that but had to rely on Amazon for the tech.

    they are judge jury and executioner. i didnt see them banning rap stars with millions of followers who directly called for violence against white people.
    Firstly, the right to free speech is the right to not be arrested for saying something, not the right to the provision of a social media platform. Incitement to violence is already considered outside the limits of freedom of speech. The president is always free to call a press conference or just stand in the park and shout at whoever will listen.
    I'm not convinced that the current outcry is that different from the advent of cheap printing. The 17th and 18th centuries were full of political agitators suddenly having the means to reach hundreds of people with printed pamphlets, and various attempts by the authorities to control this. It took us until the mid 20th century to finally agree the rules for publishing.
    That said, I do think providers of social media need to get off the fence and stop pretending that they aren't effectively publishers. Less of a monopoly would be good, too.
    This.

    Trump has an entire media corps that follows him around or is based inside his house.
    Felt F1 2014
    Felt Z6 2012
    Red Arthur Caygill steel frame ??
    Tall....
  • briantrumpetbriantrumpet Posts: 5,563
    It's weird how all these libertarians suddenly want to tell private companies how they should run their businesses. Why would that be, I wonder?

    Yes, there is a discussion about how a few mega corporations effectively dictate the agenda, and how quickly single businesses can gain an effective monopoly, but in Parler's case, it made a decision to host the most hateful/dangerous of speech, and other businesses decided they wanted no part of it. Seems like the free market in action to me.
  • elbowlohelbowloh Posts: 3,208
    Didn't Trump say a couple of months back that he wanted to regulate the media companies?
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    Felt Z6 2012
    Red Arthur Caygill steel frame ??
    Tall....
  • briantrumpetbriantrumpet Posts: 5,563
    elbowloh said:

    Didn't Trump say a couple of months back that he wanted to regulate the media companies?


    I just get this inkling that it might not have been even-handed, if he had... call me conspiracy theorist, if you like, but... let me see, is the free press welcome in authoritarian regimes?
  • nickicenickice Posts: 2,439
    Don't like him but the OP is right. There is no point in having this debate as it's been had 100 times before. Oh how little some people have learned from history! Anyway, I'm out of here.
  • surrey_commutersurrey_commuter Posts: 12,130

    It's weird how all these libertarians suddenly want to tell private companies how they should run their businesses. Why would that be, I wonder?

    Yes, there is a discussion about how a few mega corporations effectively dictate the agenda, and how quickly single businesses can gain an effective monopoly, but in Parler's case, it made a decision to host the most hateful/dangerous of speech, and other businesses decided they wanted no part of it. Seems like the free market in action to me.

    not sure what mega corporations you mean but the tech giants are platforms so really aren't dictating the agenda
  • focuszing723focuszing723 Posts: 1,328


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    Most companies have rules to abide by, their members/clients would get a warning if they are broken and I expect barred if consistently ignored.
  • JezyboyJezyboy Posts: 321
    Left wing companies that pay little tax.

    Most left wingers I know generally want higher taxes...

    Trying to paint Twitter, Facebook and amazon as socialist is weird.

    FWIW mail online is still regularly one of the top visited news websites. You can still have opinions online.
  • kingstongrahamkingstongraham Posts: 13,156
    Yes, there's a discussion to be had around how Amazon and Facebook have too much market dominance and their decisions have an outsized impact.

    But if your platform has just been used as the main way of organising an attack on the USA, and the whole reason for it existing is that you aren't even going to try to censor that... I don't see why Amazon should have to provide services for you.

    Also, if you think you can't see right of centre views on Twitter, may I suggest you check out Twitter? Although all you see now is people complaining about how they have lost lots of followers and they can't say the things they are saying.
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