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  • If you are ruling out darts then surely you have to rule out anything sitting down?

    I read recently that they can not build a robot to beat the top dartists as the robot can not compensate so minor changes in atmospheric conditions.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 57,377 Lives Here
    If you think darts is sedentary you’ve not watched the Olympic pistol shooting.
  • morstarmorstar Posts: 4,663
    edited December 2020

    If you are ruling out darts then surely you have to rule out anything sitting down?

    I read recently that they can not build a robot to beat the top dartists as the robot can not compensate so minor changes in atmospheric conditions.

    Disagree, if you are using your upper body to propel you, you are not sedentary, you're just engaging different biomechanics.

    As for the skill of darts, not for one second saying a high level of skill is not involved, doesn't make it a sport though.
  • morstarmorstar Posts: 4,663
    elbowloh said:

    I've also always been on the darts is not a sport side, but then I think if archery is classed as a sport, then so should darts.



    I'd argue archery in it's current form is a skill game that has it's origins in hunting. It could be made into a sport like biathlon if you had to cover km's on foot in between shots (or whatever they are called)
  • morstar said:

    If you are ruling out darts then surely you have to rule out anything sitting down?

    I read recently that they can not build a robot to beat the top dartists as the robot can not compensate so minor changes in atmospheric conditions.

    Disagree, if you are using your upper body to propel you, you are not sedentary, you're just engaging different biomechanics.
    So your argument against darts is that there is not enough exertion?
  • elbowlohelbowloh Posts: 7,078
    morstar said:

    elbowloh said:

    I've also always been on the darts is not a sport side, but then I think if archery is classed as a sport, then so should darts.



    I'd argue archery in it's current form is a skill game that has it's origins in hunting. It could be made into a sport like biathlon if you had to cover km's on foot in between shots (or whatever they are called)
    You could also do biathlon darts with the players running back and forth between the oche and the bar.
    Felt F1 2014
    Felt Z6 2012
    Red Arthur Caygill steel frame
    Tall....
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  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 57,377 Lives Here
    Darts at the olympics would be sh!t unless they accept the full ally pally style fan experience.
  • elbowlohelbowloh Posts: 7,078

    Darts at the olympics would be sh!t unless they accept the full ally pally style fan experience.

    And not like this "if that's darts, then I'm offski"
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/darts/55469017
    Felt F1 2014
    Felt Z6 2012
    Red Arthur Caygill steel frame
    Tall....
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  • morstarmorstar Posts: 4,663

    morstar said:

    If you are ruling out darts then surely you have to rule out anything sitting down?

    I read recently that they can not build a robot to beat the top dartists as the robot can not compensate so minor changes in atmospheric conditions.

    Disagree, if you are using your upper body to propel you, you are not sedentary, you're just engaging different biomechanics.
    So your argument against darts is that there is not enough exertion?
    Basically yes. It’s a skilled but largely sedentary activity.
    It’s a game.

    That doesn’t make it more or less worthy that any other pastime but it’s not a sport imho.
  • morstarmorstar Posts: 4,663
    elbowloh said:

    morstar said:

    elbowloh said:

    I've also always been on the darts is not a sport side, but then I think if archery is classed as a sport, then so should darts.



    I'd argue archery in it's current form is a skill game that has it's origins in hunting. It could be made into a sport like biathlon if you had to cover km's on foot in between shots (or whatever they are called)
    You could also do biathlon darts with the players running back and forth between the oche and the bar.
    That works.
  • mrb123mrb123 Posts: 3,424
    For me, darts at its best can offer a lot of the things I most enjoy about sport: tension, drama, twists and turns, amazing skill under the highest of pressure.

    The great matches at the World Champs (think Taylor v Barney, MvG v Cross, MvG v Barney) stack up against pretty much anything in terms of excitement IMO. I'm not going to spend too much time worrying that the protagonists don't resemble your archetypal athlete. Neither do a lot of rugby front rows!

    I feel the same about snooker at the highest level though, albeit the drama plays out in a rather different atmosphere!
  • joe_totale-2joe_totale-2 Posts: 1,333
    edited December 2020
    mrb123 said:

    For me, darts at its best can offer a lot of the things I most enjoy about sport: tension, drama, twists and turns, amazing skill under the highest of pressure.

    The great matches at the World Champs (think Taylor v Barney, MvG v Cross, MvG v Barney) stack up against pretty much anything in terms of excitement IMO. I'm not going to spend too much time worrying that the protagonists don't resemble your archetypal athlete. Neither do a lot of rugby front rows!

    I feel the same about snooker at the highest level though, albeit the drama plays out in a rather different atmosphere!

    I love darts and played it badly at pub league level for a couple of years. The amount of practice you need to do just to have a chance of throwing a decent check out is incredible, honestly keeping race cycling fit is easier and takes less time!

    Just like snooker, the more you play it the more you realise that the gap between us regular pub players and the professionals is enormous and it needs more than just hard work to get to the top.

    I'm not fussed if darts and snooker are considered sports or not, as you state, the drama that both can provide is incredible and up there with the best.
  • morstarmorstar Posts: 4,663

    mrb123 said:

    For me, darts at its best can offer a lot of the things I most enjoy about sport: tension, drama, twists and turns, amazing skill under the highest of pressure.

    The great matches at the World Champs (think Taylor v Barney, MvG v Cross, MvG v Barney) stack up against pretty much anything in terms of excitement IMO. I'm not going to spend too much time worrying that the protagonists don't resemble your archetypal athlete. Neither do a lot of rugby front rows!

    I feel the same about snooker at the highest level though, albeit the drama plays out in a rather different atmosphere!

    I love darts and played it badly at pub league level for a couple of years. The amount of practice you need to do just to have a chance of throwing a decent check out is incredible, honestly keeping race cycling fit is easier and takes less time!

    Just like snooker, the more you play it the more you realise that the gap between us regular pub players and the professionals is enormous and it needs more than just hard work to get to the top.

    I'm not fussed if darts and snooker are considered sports or not, as you state, the drama that both can provide is incredible and up there with the best.
    I agree. Classification has zero impact on the product itself.

    I just find it an odd classification. Maybe one for the trivial things thread.
  • mrb123 said:

    For me, darts at its best can offer a lot of the things I most enjoy about sport: tension, drama, twists and turns, amazing skill under the highest of pressure.

    The great matches at the World Champs (think Taylor v Barney, MvG v Cross, MvG v Barney) stack up against pretty much anything in terms of excitement IMO. I'm not going to spend too much time worrying that the protagonists don't resemble your archetypal athlete. Neither do a lot of rugby front rows!

    I feel the same about snooker at the highest level though, albeit the drama plays out in a rather different atmosphere!

    I have been too a number of big ticket sporting occasions and seeing Taylor at the Palace is right up there. Ten years ago I took about a dozen people from work to see Taylor in the first round (reigning champ always plays first night) he obviously plays last and the noise and adulation was incredible. Some of those people still thank me for it a decade later. The best £20 anybody could spend.
  • ddraverddraver Posts: 23,211
    Ned Boulting - cycling commentator and darts TV person - have a really good defense of darts as a sport on a podcast

    ... unfortunately I've forgotten where it was, can anyone else remember?
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 57,377 Lives Here
    Have been trying very hard to do the team social at the ally pally for some years.

  • mrb123mrb123 Posts: 3,424

    mrb123 said:

    For me, darts at its best can offer a lot of the things I most enjoy about sport: tension, drama, twists and turns, amazing skill under the highest of pressure.

    The great matches at the World Champs (think Taylor v Barney, MvG v Cross, MvG v Barney) stack up against pretty much anything in terms of excitement IMO. I'm not going to spend too much time worrying that the protagonists don't resemble your archetypal athlete. Neither do a lot of rugby front rows!

    I feel the same about snooker at the highest level though, albeit the drama plays out in a rather different atmosphere!

    I have been too a number of big ticket sporting occasions and seeing Taylor at the Palace is right up there. Ten years ago I took about a dozen people from work to see Taylor in the first round (reigning champ always plays first night) he obviously plays last and the noise and adulation was incredible. Some of those people still thank me for it a decade later. The best £20 anybody could spend.
    Presumably your spend on booze was rather more than £20 though!
  • morstarmorstar Posts: 4,663
    God you southerners. So down and dirty with your working mans passtimes.

    E it’s grim darn sarf.
  • John Lowe, the first darts player to throw a 9 dart finish on TV used to drink in my local many moons ago.
    Surprise, surprise there wasn't a dartsboard in the place.

  • mrb123mrb123 Posts: 3,424
    Cargobike said:

    John Lowe, the first darts player to throw a 9 dart finish on TV used to drink in my local many moons ago.
    Surprise, surprise there wasn't a dartsboard in the place.

    James Wade just hit a 9 darter in the match on at the moment. Not quite the same without the crowd in there going bananas.
  • Have been trying very hard to do the team social at the ally pally for some years.

    I was going with a couple of mates and asked a bloke in the office if he wanted to come, before you know it our dept Xmas lunch had been tacked on the front and we were all going.
  • mrb123 said:

    mrb123 said:

    For me, darts at its best can offer a lot of the things I most enjoy about sport: tension, drama, twists and turns, amazing skill under the highest of pressure.

    The great matches at the World Champs (think Taylor v Barney, MvG v Cross, MvG v Barney) stack up against pretty much anything in terms of excitement IMO. I'm not going to spend too much time worrying that the protagonists don't resemble your archetypal athlete. Neither do a lot of rugby front rows!

    I feel the same about snooker at the highest level though, albeit the drama plays out in a rather different atmosphere!

    I have been too a number of big ticket sporting occasions and seeing Taylor at the Palace is right up there. Ten years ago I took about a dozen people from work to see Taylor in the first round (reigning champ always plays first night) he obviously plays last and the noise and adulation was incredible. Some of those people still thank me for it a decade later. The best £20 anybody could spend.
    Presumably your spend on booze was rather more than £20 though!
    And not forgetting the £20 to have your photo taken with Eric
  • elbowlohelbowloh Posts: 7,078

    mrb123 said:

    mrb123 said:

    For me, darts at its best can offer a lot of the things I most enjoy about sport: tension, drama, twists and turns, amazing skill under the highest of pressure.

    The great matches at the World Champs (think Taylor v Barney, MvG v Cross, MvG v Barney) stack up against pretty much anything in terms of excitement IMO. I'm not going to spend too much time worrying that the protagonists don't resemble your archetypal athlete. Neither do a lot of rugby front rows!

    I feel the same about snooker at the highest level though, albeit the drama plays out in a rather different atmosphere!

    I have been too a number of big ticket sporting occasions and seeing Taylor at the Palace is right up there. Ten years ago I took about a dozen people from work to see Taylor in the first round (reigning champ always plays first night) he obviously plays last and the noise and adulation was incredible. Some of those people still thank me for it a decade later. The best £20 anybody could spend.
    Presumably your spend on booze was rather more than £20 though!
    And not forgetting the £20 to have your photo taken with Eric
    It'll cost ya more than that.
    Felt F1 2014
    Felt Z6 2012
    Red Arthur Caygill steel frame
    Tall....
    www.seewildlife.co.uk
  • Anybody who watched the MVG match could not think that is a pastime
  • morstarmorstar Posts: 4,663

    Anybody who watched the MVG match could not think that is a pastime

    Don't confuse classification with skill, intensity, whatever other measure.

    Poker can be very intense and consuming but that doesn't make it a sport.

    Interestingly enough, in the article linked as a counter to my questioning the sporting credentials of darts, it referenced how bridge players tried to get themselves classified as a sport.

  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 57,377 Lives Here
    It’s just snobbery if you think darts isn’t a sport.

  • elbowlohelbowloh Posts: 7,078

    It’s just snobbery if you think darts isn’t a sport.

    Its not. I also think Ice dance isn't a sport and that's hardly a working man's activity.
    Felt F1 2014
    Felt Z6 2012
    Red Arthur Caygill steel frame
    Tall....
    www.seewildlife.co.uk
  • morstarmorstar Posts: 4,663

    It’s just snobbery if you think darts isn’t a sport.

    Glad you clarified that for us all. Up your own censored much?
  • mrb123mrb123 Posts: 3,424

    Anybody who watched the MVG match could not think that is a pastime

    Agreed. Pure sporting drama of the highest order.
  • elbowloh said:

    It’s just snobbery if you think darts isn’t a sport.

    Its not. I also think Ice dance isn't a sport and that's hardly a working man's activity.
    I would argue that anything that involves a subjective decision to decide the winner is not sport
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