Increasing power without gaining weight

redvision

So the last few months I have been following a trainerroad plan apparently designed to increase power. To say I'm disappointed in it is an understatement. Despite following it to a tee my power just hasn't increased.

Looking back through my training logs (before starting the trainerroad programme) it appears the only time my power increases is when I gain a bit of weight, but my speed remains pretty much identical because what I gain in power is negated through the extra weight. I currently weigh 70kg which i am happy with and this was also my weight back in 2018 when I reached my strongest level on the bike, with an ftp of just over 320. An accident caused me to lose all that and I've never been able to get anywhere near since getting back off the bike.

I'm now wondering if I was at a level I just won't ever reach again, perhaps my body is just slowing down as I age, whatever it is I would still like to increase my speed if possible. So my question is does anyone have any tips for increasing power but without increasing weight? Or can anyone suggest a programme I could follow (NOT TRAINERROAD!!)?

Thanks

N0bodyOfTheGoat

I started the Zwift "TT Tune-Up" 8-week program back on January 6th having just turned 46, I weighed 79.5Kg; my estimated LTHR was 174bpm; my FTP based on 95% of 20mins was 273W.

Especially during the first ~4 weeks, I was happy to throw in other Zwift races/TTs/ group rides. It was quite a surreal period, I felt like I had endlesss stamina and could quickly recover between sessions and go again at ~90%.

By Feb 14th I was 76.3Kg; LTHR 174bpm; FTP 294W.

https://whatsonzwift.com/workouts/tt-tuneup/

I simply tried that plan because https://power-meter.cc/home reckons I have the power profile of a TTer, which follows my results in Zwift, I tend to do a lot better in TTs than in races.

DeVlaeminck

Why not follow whatever you were doing in 2017-18 - it's only 2-3 years ago and if you reached an FTP of 320 at 70kg that's not too shabby.

philbar72

a few folk from my club are similar to yourself. 320 for 70kg is decent.... my best ever when i took this seriously was 296 at 75kg but i am late 40's... what about other power profiles like the short term stuff, i found that doing lots of sub 5 min painful stuff helped with the whole getting quicker thing. also when training feed the hard efforts and calorie deficit the easy days, seems to be the way to do things...

brundonbianchi

Have you tried triamcinolone. It’s quite good ( allegedly)

slowmart

@redivision, what training plan were you following? Are you solely using your FTP or do you have a wider spectrum to measure your fitness?

As we age we need to balance recovery and nutrition with the same focus as we apply to structured training ( I’m 53)

Personally I’ve always found TrainerRoad works although it does create significant stress on your body whilst adaptation follows.

As for calories and going down some cul de sacs I now weigh my food ( food nutrition can be 20% out) and I use power to measure calorie expenditure with much better results. ( improving power whilst reducing weight, not much room for error!)

Improving power whilst maintaining your current weight shouldn’t be to much of an ask. That said what sort of progress have you made with power and over what period?

I’ve just started a 27 week plan for next years Fred Whitton ( if it goes ahead which I doubt) and I benchmark my ftp three weeks tomorrow. As it’s SSBMV1 it will be interesting to see what, if any FTP gains I make but I had 38 watt gain from the same plan last year.

redvision

Cheers for the replies.

DeVlaeminck said:

Why not follow whatever you were doing in 2017-18 - it's only 2-3 years ago and if you reached an FTP of 320 at 70kg that's not too shabby.

I have tried. Spent the second half of 2019 and early this year following that, which was a personalised plan a coach i had a few years back had set me, but whilst my ftp did increase (rose to 225), I was still no where near the level I reached previously. That's when a club mate mentioned trainerroad.

@slowmart totally agree, getting nutrition right and enough recovery are all essential and again I had a diet set by my former coach which I still follow. I'm getting enough recovery, although thanks to covid, like most, have had extra stresses over the last few months and lost some sleep. But at the end of last year I was sleeping fine and still couldn't get anywhere near the ftp I wanted to get back to.

To show you just how much I've plateaued, when starting trainerroad my ftp was just 225 (compare that to 324 at start of Oct 2018) at the end of the TR course my ftp was 227. Just to note, all ftp tests were done using the same pm (assiomas).

As mentioned in previous post I did have a prolonged period off the bike from the end of October 2018 due to an accident, and I know I lost significant muscle mass during that time, but when I got back on the bike I built back up and assumed I had regained much of that strength, but given my lack of progress i guess I was wrong.

So I'm thinking that I somehow need to find the holy grail of training, building strength without gaining weight. Just not sure how - given the training programs I have followed over the last year. Must admit, people keep telling me that sometimes after injury you just can't reach levels hit previously, particularly when you get older, but I'm not accepting that just yet and figure whilst motivation is still strong there must be a way.

webboo

Would you not be best building and gaining power without worrying about weight gain. Once you have reached your desired power level, then start and lose weight. Isn’t that how most elite athletes in any sport do it.

redvision

webboo said:

Would you not be best building and gaining power without worrying about weight gain. Once you have reached your desired power level, then start and lose weight. Isn’t that how most elite athletes in any sport do it.

Not really tbh. Struggled in the past with losing weight and it took a hell of an effort to hit the 70kg (which was the target mark my former coach had set me).

Plus, as I mentioned before, I can see that over the last year when I have gained a little weight my ftp increased slightly but the speed on the road didn't because the extra weight negates the extra couple of watts.

MidlandsGrimpeur2

@redvision I remember you posting about the crash and recall that is was a very severe one. I guess no one will be able to categorically state either way whether you can return to your previous level, but I am like yourself in that I would exhaust every possible means of trying to get there.

Have you gone back to your previous coach for advice, or spoken to anyone else (physios etc.) that have some specific experience of guiding people back from injury? Having had a fair number of injuries myself (nothing like as severe as yours I should add), it can take far longer than you think to return to where you were previously. Personally I see some merit in going back to where you were training wise 12-18 months prior to the accident and slowly building back up over a prolonged period of time (I see you mentioned following a previous coaching plan for a few months but perhaps that was not enough time).

My guess would be that fitness wise your body kind of hit the reset button and that whereas previously a short intensive training programme like a trainerroad would have pushed your power up as you were starting from a high base of endurance fitness, now that endurance base has reduced and you need to build it back up again over a fairly hefty chunk of time.

david37

ive used the trainer road plans and had the same issue. I did buy a training plan from simon kessler that was excellent. simonsayscycling@gmail.com

I used it and managed to lose weight and gain power but i also watched what i ate closely. It was only an 8 week (2 lots of 4) block but it worked. It was also challenging. it was used on the training peaks platform. Ive used it several times since.

redvision

@MidlandsGrimpeur2 thanks for the reply. Yes, was a long old recovery.

I actually heard from my former coach yesterday evening and whilst he's recently retired he listened and actually recommended a few weeks off the bike, picking things back up in the new year. He has suggested a different type of training in the meantime, but lower intensity and less hours per week. Not exactly what I wanted to hear as I'm impatient and hate doing no training or less training at least.

Tbh listening to his advice I probably have been over training in my efforts to achieve my ftp - as I basically jumped straight in to the trainerroad programme without any type of recovery period beforehand. Then with increased hours at work because of covid etc, even though I was getting what I thought was plenty of rest, he suggested it wasn't enough. And reminded me of the old cycling adage - if you can sit don't stand, if you can lay down don't sit.

Anyway, think I will follow what he said and try a few weeks of little or no cycling. Might try a few short runs or something but won't do anything too strenuous before I start a training plan again (will follow the one he previously set me).

Thanks for all the comments and suggestions.

slowmart

My mind has been writing cheques my body can't cash for sometime but I appreciate you hold the same view as me that you can't be told your limitations, you have to find them yourself which unfortunately means I have dug myself some pretty big holes on the way to a more informed understanding of my body. Enforced rest can mean increased weight gain, it might be interesting for you to benchmark your calorie consumption and see what happens to your body weight?

I found when i was recovering from a broken leg that my body needed more calories to fuel my body's recovery which was a blessing as i didn't want to put any weight on during my recovery. That aspect helped me cope with time off the bike as I couldn't control my fitness but i could manage my calorie intake and rest.

Best Wishes with your recovery

bobmcstuff

I've been following TrainerRoad plans for about 4 years now and always have very good results when I actually follow them properly. Sweetspot Base has always got be back into reasonable shape when I have needed it. I thought I would jump in as I have used them a lot and my experience with them has been very good - I have also tried CTS and Sufferfest (old now though, they look to have improved a lot since) plans. I use Zwift too and have done some of their workouts.

The key thing I would note is my power increases tend to come following the recovery weeks, so if you skip those or throw in extra hard rides you may well find you don't see the improvement. The plans are designed around the progressive build and release of stress, so you need to make sure you do the recovery bit properly - this chimes with what you say here:

redvision said:

Tbh listening to his advice I probably have been over training in my efforts to achieve my ftp - as I basically jumped straight in to the trainerroad programme without any type of recovery period beforehand. Then with increased hours at work because of covid etc, even though I was getting what I thought was plenty of rest, he suggested it wasn't enough. And reminded me of the old cycling adage - if you can sit don't stand, if you can lay down don't sit.

I had a similar experience this year. I've been racing on Zwift a lot since lockdown 1, doing group rides etc., while following the TrainerRoad plan. Midway through Short Power Build they had a Tour for All rides during one of my recovery weeks, plus a club Zwift ride, plus a big weekend outdoor ride, so basically I did not have the recovery - I still did 500 TSS in my "recovery" week which was after 3 weeks of 750-850 TSS (which is quite a lot really, for me).

I then went straight into the next 3 week block.

Obviously, this did not go that well and I fell apart before the end of the block - couldn't get my heart rate up, couldn't hit my intervals etc..

I think the thing that got me is that normally, real life tends to get in the way and I have an enforced recovery week (holiday, or more often, work trip) but because of COVID I just kept on going and going - I rode my bike every single day in May and had one day off in April. I'd obviously heard about this "overtraining" thing but until it happens to you it's difficult to really appreciate what it is like.

IMV the TR plans are very well designed - they have stacks of user data on plan compliance, FTP progression etc. and they put a lot of work into getting the plans right - it is their whole business. They fairly recently changed a lot of the sweetspot base plans because their data showed a reasonable % of people were failing intervals towards the end of the plans, for example. They also have a good forum for advice and really good support if you do need to contact them (best in the business having used both Strava and Zwift customer support...). Not to sound like a shill, but since I think October 2016 my FTP has gone from 218 to 292 and the benefits have always come when I have followed the TR plans properly...