French teacher killed
Comments
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Islamophobia is a feature of the far right not left is it not?Dorset_Boy said:
Why is it always only a far right dream story in your view?rick_chasey said:Far right's dream this story - makes it doubly unfortunate
I'm sure far left regimes are just as keen to clamp down on islamist extremeists.
Perhaps you need to start looking both ways, not just one all the time!
For the sake of integration and living comfortably side by side, various cultures in the west, such as lampooning religion needs to be accepted by those choosing to make their homes in western Europe.
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It is a feature of the extremes on both sides surely.rick_chasey said:
Islamophobia is a feature of the far right not left is it not?Dorset_Boy said:
Why is it always only a far right dream story in your view?rick_chasey said:Far right's dream this story - makes it doubly unfortunate
I'm sure far left regimes are just as keen to clamp down on islamist extremeists.
Perhaps you need to start looking both ways, not just one all the time!
For the sake of integration and living comfortably side by side, various cultures in the west, such as lampooning religion needs to be accepted by those choosing to make their homes in western Europe.
And regligous based terrorism concerns plenty in the centre too as the extremist aim is to overturn the way life is led.
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look, it's clearly something that is specific to the far right both in terms of Islamophobia concerns about multicultralism as well as concerns around cancel culture and free speech.Dorset_Boy said:
It is a feature of the extremes on both sides surely.rick_chasey said:
Islamophobia is a feature of the far right not left is it not?Dorset_Boy said:
Why is it always only a far right dream story in your view?rick_chasey said:Far right's dream this story - makes it doubly unfortunate
I'm sure far left regimes are just as keen to clamp down on islamist extremeists.
Perhaps you need to start looking both ways, not just one all the time!
For the sake of integration and living comfortably side by side, various cultures in the west, such as lampooning religion needs to be accepted by those choosing to make their homes in western Europe.
And regligous based terrorism concerns plenty in the centre too as the extremist aim is to overturn the way life is led.0 -
It's opposition to religious censorship of public life really - calling it Islamophobia is a very loaded term designed to shut down debate.rick_chasey said:
Islamophobia is a feature of the far right not left is it not?Dorset_Boy said:
Why is it always only a far right dream story in your view?rick_chasey said:Far right's dream this story - makes it doubly unfortunate
I'm sure far left regimes are just as keen to clamp down on islamist extremeists.
Perhaps you need to start looking both ways, not just one all the time!
For the sake of integration and living comfortably side by side, various cultures in the west, such as lampooning religion needs to be accepted by those choosing to make their homes in western Europe.
[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]1 -
let's not get too high and mighty here, this is clearly a 21st century feature of extremist Islam which is not seen in other religions in Europe currently.DeVlaeminck said:
It's opposition to religious censorship of public life really - calling it Islamophobia is a very loaded term designed to shut down debate.rick_chasey said:
Islamophobia is a feature of the far right not left is it not?Dorset_Boy said:
Why is it always only a far right dream story in your view?rick_chasey said:Far right's dream this story - makes it doubly unfortunate
I'm sure far left regimes are just as keen to clamp down on islamist extremeists.
Perhaps you need to start looking both ways, not just one all the time!
For the sake of integration and living comfortably side by side, various cultures in the west, such as lampooning religion needs to be accepted by those choosing to make their homes in western Europe.
You are naive if you think this does not play into existing islamophobic tropes
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Tell that to the Uighurs...rick_chasey said:
Islamophobia is a feature of the far right not left is it not?Dorset_Boy said:
Why is it always only a far right dream story in your view?rick_chasey said:Far right's dream this story - makes it doubly unfortunate
I'm sure far left regimes are just as keen to clamp down on islamist extremeists.
Perhaps you need to start looking both ways, not just one all the time!
For the sake of integration and living comfortably side by side, various cultures in the west, such as lampooning religion needs to be accepted by those choosing to make their homes in western Europe.3 -
How is calling it what it is getting high and mighty?
[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]2 -
I imagine a devout follower of any religion would see their beliefs on a par with others believing in the existence of the holocaust. Therefore surely it would be appropriate to compare religious deniers with holocaust deniers?0
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yepDeVlaeminck said:
It's opposition to religious censorship of public life really - calling it Islamophobia is a very loaded term designed to shut down debate.rick_chasey said:
Islamophobia is a feature of the far right not left is it not?Dorset_Boy said:
Why is it always only a far right dream story in your view?rick_chasey said:Far right's dream this story - makes it doubly unfortunate
I'm sure far left regimes are just as keen to clamp down on islamist extremeists.
Perhaps you need to start looking both ways, not just one all the time!
For the sake of integration and living comfortably side by side, various cultures in the west, such as lampooning religion needs to be accepted by those choosing to make their homes in western Europe.
insulting someone's imaginary friend is not a crime, all religions are fair game in this respect, after all, many religions at least discriminate against or denigrate non-believers, some religious texts explicitly encourage far worse
humanity has put up with the religious of many persuasions robbing, enslaving, oppressing, and slaughtering in the names of their various imaginary friends for way too long
if someone wants to believe in a religion, fine, but that must always be on the basis that they need to respect the fact that their belief confers no legitimate rights on them to constrain, judge, attack or otherwise impact others
my bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny2 -
I had a shortlist of 2 candidates for starting this thread when I first heard it on the news.0
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What better place to teach children about the values of the society than a school. I dont understand why you are saying otherwise Beanie.TheBigBean said:
I read this largely as agreement with what I wrote. You got there in the end with holocaust denial, and "whether a French middle school is the right place" shows signs that you know it is probably not the right place.nickice said:
My analogy was based on the fact that if someone uses a racial slur as an insult(or a specific racial slur) from some quarters it's seen as being as bad (or almost as bad) to repeat that word when reporting the story (even if it's an integral part of the story). It was the same with Charlie Hebdo. The cartoons were an integral part of the story.TheBigBean said:
I think a better analogy would be wanting to teach holocaust denial as part of freedom of expression, and making it ok by asking the Jewish kids to leave the room.nickice said:
Not much point in teaching freedom of expression if you can't give real-world examples.TheBigBean said:Teacher thinks the only way to teach freedom of expression is to be offsensive - bad
A group of people think there are better ways to teach these things and try to address the matter through the school - good
Another group of people just kill the teacher - very bad
I did once discuss Salman Rushie with an Islamic scholar who believed he should die. Was quite interesting.
If you showed Jewish students Nazi propaganda would you be being offensive or, if it were in the context of a class, would it be acceptable ? I suppose the closest analogy would be the complaints about that journalist saying censored even though it was reporting what someone had said.
He said Muslim students could leave the room if they wanted. I think he shouldn't have done it but only as it wasnt worth the personal risk to him.
I also think you confuse teaching at universities with teaching at schools.
Anyway, the teacher is going to be honoured.
I fail to see how your analogy is really an analogy. Teaching holocaust denial would be teaching that something didn't happen when it clearly did. If a teacher wants to teach that even holocaust deniers have a right to freedom of expression (which, ironically, they don't in France) then that's fine. The whole point of the class, to me, would be that freedom of expression is about ideas you might personally find offensive.
Can you imagine that; 'I'm going to teach you that freedom of expression is about accepting that some people might have ideas you find offensive but I'm not going to show you a clear, contemporary example as some of you may find it offensive.'
Whether a French middle school is the right place to do that, I don't know but he had, apparently, done it as part of the class before.2 -
Sure.mrb123 said:
Tell that to the Uighurs...rick_chasey said:
Islamophobia is a feature of the far right not left is it not?Dorset_Boy said:
Why is it always only a far right dream story in your view?rick_chasey said:Far right's dream this story - makes it doubly unfortunate
I'm sure far left regimes are just as keen to clamp down on islamist extremeists.
Perhaps you need to start looking both ways, not just one all the time!
For the sake of integration and living comfortably side by side, various cultures in the west, such as lampooning religion needs to be accepted by those choosing to make their homes in western Europe.
It’s a European context.0 -
Islamaphobia is labeled far right to demonise it. The left on the other hand appear love all the bits of Islam that are anti society. Right up to the point their children are ripped apart at a concert and even then there are still the yes but comments.rick_chasey said:
Islamophobia is a feature of the far right not left is it not?Dorset_Boy said:
Why is it always only a far right dream story in your view?rick_chasey said:Far right's dream this story - makes it doubly unfortunate
I'm sure far left regimes are just as keen to clamp down on islamist extremeists.
Perhaps you need to start looking both ways, not just one all the time!
For the sake of integration and living comfortably side by side, various cultures in the west, such as lampooning religion needs to be accepted by those choosing to make their homes in western Europe.
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I think there is a level of faith with religious beliefs which is slightly different from having shared/commonly accepted historical events.surrey_commuter said:I imagine a devout follower of any religion would see their beliefs on a par with others believing in the existence of the holocaust. Therefore surely it would be appropriate to compare religious deniers with holocaust deniers?
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I'm intriged who has liked every post.Pross said:I had a shortlist of 2 candidates for starting this thread when I first heard it on the news.
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Are you not playing the guess who has liked a post game? Its a bit too easy, but mildly entertaining.TheBigBean said:
I'm intriged who has liked every post.Pross said:I had a shortlist of 2 candidates for starting this thread when I first heard it on the news.
A while back Goo would have been favourite for starting this thread, he's been very quiet lately.0 -
Oh look, I liked another post. I think what is implicit here is that "one of the nutters" has posted it. It's nice to be appreciated 😂😂😂nickice said:
Shortfall and me? If it's not me, what can I do to get on the shortlist next time?Pross said:I had a shortlist of 2 candidates for starting this thread when I first heard it on the news.
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I initially thought you were agreeing with me, but after a reread I realised it is the status quo.surrey_commuter said:I imagine a devout follower of any religion would see their beliefs on a par with others believing in the existence of the holocaust. Therefore surely it would be appropriate to compare religious deniers with holocaust deniers?
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I hover over it (when on a PC) will tell you.TheBigBean said:
I'm intriged who has liked every post.Pross said:I had a shortlist of 2 candidates for starting this thread when I first heard it on the news.
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Pretty sure the police are involved in trying to prevent other murders as well. I think we're just better at ignoring all the other murders.nickice said:
It shows future intention and has a far more chilling effect than other murders. And how many murders would they be committing if they didn't have a whole lot of the security services watching them?rjsterry said:From the figures I can find, terrorism related deaths account for about 1% of all murders in France over the last 50 years. Let's not give these arseholes any more publicity than they have already managed to grab.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Those who are concerned about cancel culture and free speech are on the far right?rick_chasey said:
look, it's clearly something that is specific to the far right both in terms of Islamophobia concerns about multicultralism as well as concerns around cancel culture and free speech.Dorset_Boy said:
It is a feature of the extremes on both sides surely.rick_chasey said:
Islamophobia is a feature of the far right not left is it not?Dorset_Boy said:
Why is it always only a far right dream story in your view?rick_chasey said:Far right's dream this story - makes it doubly unfortunate
I'm sure far left regimes are just as keen to clamp down on islamist extremeists.
Perhaps you need to start looking both ways, not just one all the time!
For the sake of integration and living comfortably side by side, various cultures in the west, such as lampooning religion needs to be accepted by those choosing to make their homes in western Europe.
And regligous based terrorism concerns plenty in the centre too as the extremist aim is to overturn the way life is led.1 -
Other way aroundnickice said:
Those who are concerned about cancel culture and free speech are on the far right?rick_chasey said:
look, it's clearly something that is specific to the far right both in terms of Islamophobia concerns about multicultralism as well as concerns around cancel culture and free speech.Dorset_Boy said:
It is a feature of the extremes on both sides surely.rick_chasey said:
Islamophobia is a feature of the far right not left is it not?Dorset_Boy said:
Why is it always only a far right dream story in your view?rick_chasey said:Far right's dream this story - makes it doubly unfortunate
I'm sure far left regimes are just as keen to clamp down on islamist extremeists.
Perhaps you need to start looking both ways, not just one all the time!
For the sake of integration and living comfortably side by side, various cultures in the west, such as lampooning religion needs to be accepted by those choosing to make their homes in western Europe.
And regligous based terrorism concerns plenty in the centre too as the extremist aim is to overturn the way life is led.0 -
Shortfall will be disappointed.Pross said:1 -
Sorry what are you trying to say here?david37 said:
Islamaphobia is labeled far right to demonise it. The left on the other hand appear love all the bits of Islam that are anti society. Right up to the point their children are ripped apart at a concert and even then there are still the yes but comments.rick_chasey said:
Islamophobia is a feature of the far right not left is it not?Dorset_Boy said:
Why is it always only a far right dream story in your view?rick_chasey said:Far right's dream this story - makes it doubly unfortunate
I'm sure far left regimes are just as keen to clamp down on islamist extremeists.
Perhaps you need to start looking both ways, not just one all the time!
For the sake of integration and living comfortably side by side, various cultures in the west, such as lampooning religion needs to be accepted by those choosing to make their homes in western Europe.1 -
that islamaphobia isnt solely the preserve of the far right, those who should be despised etc.rick_chasey said:
Sorry what are you trying to say here?david37 said:
Islamaphobia is labeled far right to demonise it. The left on the other hand appear love all the bits of Islam that are anti society. Right up to the point their children are ripped apart at a concert and even then there are still the yes but comments.rick_chasey said:
Islamophobia is a feature of the far right not left is it not?Dorset_Boy said:
Why is it always only a far right dream story in your view?rick_chasey said:Far right's dream this story - makes it doubly unfortunate
I'm sure far left regimes are just as keen to clamp down on islamist extremeists.
Perhaps you need to start looking both ways, not just one all the time!
For the sake of integration and living comfortably side by side, various cultures in the west, such as lampooning religion needs to be accepted by those choosing to make their homes in western Europe.
demonising and shutting down legitimate conversation is what happens when those terms are used. eg he's homophobic. Ah i see we will ignore and silence him. you use them in that way too.
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It is but this is what you said-TheBigBean said:It's possible to believe both that people shouldn't be murdered and that it was an inappropriate thing to teach.
'teach kids "freedom of expression" by deliberately offending a minority of the class.'
I also think there is a time and a place for criticism of the teacher. My only criticism would be that he was naive in thinking there aren't some real fundamentalists out there who'd attack him. He was murdered for teaching a class. There are no other moral lessons to be taken from this.
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If this thread continues, the Muslim population will be the real victims in about another ten posts. The words 'racist' and 'bigot' might appear too.1
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So it's not specific to the far right?rick_chasey said:
Other way aroundnickice said:
Those who are concerned about cancel culture and free speech are on the far right?rick_chasey said:
look, it's clearly something that is specific to the far right both in terms of Islamophobia concerns about multicultralism as well as concerns around cancel culture and free speech.Dorset_Boy said:
It is a feature of the extremes on both sides surely.rick_chasey said:
Islamophobia is a feature of the far right not left is it not?Dorset_Boy said:
Why is it always only a far right dream story in your view?rick_chasey said:Far right's dream this story - makes it doubly unfortunate
I'm sure far left regimes are just as keen to clamp down on islamist extremeists.
Perhaps you need to start looking both ways, not just one all the time!
For the sake of integration and living comfortably side by side, various cultures in the west, such as lampooning religion needs to be accepted by those choosing to make their homes in western Europe.
And regligous based terrorism concerns plenty in the centre too as the extremist aim is to overturn the way life is led.
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