End of Tour Grades and Team of the Tour
Comments
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They were perhaps flattered with a c more c minusandyp said:Movistar were anonymous, bar a brief sight of Mas on the final mountain stage. A D at best as no-one, except them, give a tinker's cuss about the team classification.
"If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0 -
Combined jersey days . The giro points for teams went on well into the 90 s and that weird intergiro .RichN95. said:mididoctors said:
giro had a team point competition back in the day
So did the Tour de France from 1973-1988"If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0 -
Quintana's crash and allergic reaction to the nettle stings was a real shame - he looked like he'd recaptured a bit of his earlier self. Might have been good for fourth or fifth?0
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Is it just me that feels that Jumbo-Visma's "Become the New Sky" project might have a touch of the cargo-cult about it? "We built the magic tower, why won't the planes come?"
Tactically, I think they were too focused on Bernal/Ineos and maybe even Pinot going in to the race. Losing the ability to attack with Dumoulin after the first week was a huge blow to them later.
I also think they failed to prepare well enough for the TT. Pogacar had recced it multiple times, with multiple strategies before the race, which has got to be worth 30" at least. He didn't recce it in the morning, which is probably worth a few more seconds in saved energy. He probably won around 10" on the smooth bike change V Roglic's abysmal swap.
Roglic, in contrast, used a new TT helmet he'd never worn before, so already there were unknowns creeping in to his approach. I'd put a random guess on losing 15" on psychology alone.
Maybe Roglic just didn't have the legs on the day, he certainly didn't fail for lack of effort - but I can't help feeling that if he'd got his homework done properly he could have found close to a minute and the result would have been much, much tighter.Warning No formatter is installed for the format0 -
Remind me why this Tour was exciting again?mididoctors said:
2003 was kinda exciting but it never had the intricate tactics we are growing to appreciate I would down grade to 4 2019 and 2020 up graded to 4.5 . No one has 5 ... We need the rate the tour threadstailwindhome said:0 -
Yeah, plenty of people said at the time it was a mistake letting Dumoulin drop down - he showed pretty clearly afterwards that he was capable of keeping a good position. Even on that stage where he put in the big turn then dropped, he still didn't finish miles back.m.r.m. said:If the other guy is stronger or as strong as your guy, the tactic of increasing tempo with Kuss or the cascade of WVA, Bennett, Kuss will never work. He can sit on just like your leader.
You need to make him work more than your leader. This can be done over the course of the race in crosswinds like Ineos do every chance they get and you must find a way to make the strong opponent chase.
In this case you needed to make Pogacar chase Dumoulin early in the race as a viable GC threat and then counter. Otherwise he is only doing what Roglic is doing. If he is stronger, he is then expending less energy than your leader in comparison.
Only exception is if you are much stronger in the ITT. Then you can stay on the same time and build the gap via ITT's. This is what Froome does against pure climbers. Froome however, is able to put in 1-2 huge attacks to distance the balanced GC threats. Roglic never did.0 -
more intriguingly dramatic than exciting. vintage comes in many flavours to those with a good palettephreak said:
Remind me why this Tour was exciting again?mididoctors said:
2003 was kinda exciting but it never had the intricate tactics we are growing to appreciate I would down grade to 4 2019 and 2020 up graded to 4.5 . No one has 5 ... We need the rate the tour threadstailwindhome said:
"If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0 -
Not really sure how it was intriguing either tbh. While some were wise after the fact, most people thought it was a JV procession until Pogacar pulled the ride of his life on the time trial.mididoctors said:
more intriguingly dramatic than exciting. vintage comes in many flavours to those with a good palettephreak said:
Remind me why this Tour was exciting again?mididoctors said:
2003 was kinda exciting but it never had the intricate tactics we are growing to appreciate I would down grade to 4 2019 and 2020 up graded to 4.5 . No one has 5 ... We need the rate the tour threadstailwindhome said:0 -
Which they did...kindamididoctors said:The gravel day was a potential day for jumbo to have gone on a late offensive .
The last 2 days Roglic put Pogacar under pressure and dropped him by 10-15 secs.
It's one of the things that made the story twist so epic.
To be honest I don't think Dumolin ever sat up to save energy, he did it because he was spent. Those are the moments they needed to use Sepp Kuss to put the skinny climbers in trouble. But I'm honestly not sure Roglic ever really had the legs...or maybe the head...for that.We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
But the GC in any GT is rarely that exciting - it's taken me 10y to realise but it's all about who the protagonists on the day are and watching that unravel. It also helps having good commentators and Millar has really helped bring that part to life, for me.
I would say in this tour the individual stages were really exciting with lots of drama for all the right reasons.
Hirschi's near miss I watched from the start and it was brilliant. The subsequent win was also excellent to watch.0 -
Can't believe Kwiato wasn't in the team of the year, consistently looked stronger than his team mates, and was clearly riding slower than he could when Bernal was still there.0
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There's a strong bias to every GT immediately it ends. There were even people who rated the 2012 tour highly.phreak said:
Remind me why this Tour was exciting again?mididoctors said:
2003 was kinda exciting but it never had the intricate tactics we are growing to appreciate I would down grade to 4 2019 and 2020 up graded to 4.5 . No one has 5 ... We need the rate the tour threadstailwindhome said:
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The team competition prize is 50,000 € (and being leader in the team competition brings in 2,800 € per stage, wearing yellow only brings in 500 € per stage). This makes it more valuable than winning the green, polkadot or white jerseys, or than winning 4 stages. Only being in the GC top 4 at the end is worth more.bobmcstuff said:The team competition, like the green jersey competition, is only a competition if people are actually competing for it.
If the green had been another Sagan processional then it would have been rubbish as well. But at least it comes with a jersey and a few appearances on the podium. The team competition is worthless because Movistar are the only team who care about it and it is therefore never a competition. If a few teams were really going for it, and anyone else outside the tour cared, then maybe it would be interesting.
It may not be appear to the viewer that it's being competed for, since the media give it little coverage (just occasionally may comment when 3 riders of the same team finish a stage in the top 20), but I'd bet several teams (not just Movistar), knowing its (financial) value, regard it as more than just incidental, and do actually care about it.0 -
Glad to see Caruso in the Team of the Tour – did good work for Landa, had his occasional moment in a break, excellent ride up La Planche.RichN95. said:
TEAM OF THE TOUR
Tadej Pogacar
Søren Kragh Andersen
Damiano Caruso
Marc Hirschi
Sepp Kuss
Michael Mørkøv
Wout Van Aert
Sam Bennett
Honourable mentions: Bilbao, De Clercq, Oss, M.Pedersen, Laengen, Carapaz, Ewan, Roche
Also he was one of only two riders to constantly improve their position in the GC, i.e. never slip down the GC after any stage. For example, after stages 1, 5, 10, 15 and 21 he was respectively in positions 162, 22, 16, 14 and 10. The only other rider to do much the same was Barguil.
In the honourable mentions I think I would have therefore perhaps included Barguil. And also, Kämna for a couple of stirring performances and even Cosnefroy, because no matter how one judges him as a climber, once having got the polkadot jersey he tried to hold on to it with tenacity.0 -
They're definitely not going to find anything performance enhancing there.mrb123 said:0 -
Oh I just put that in a separate thread, sorry. Probably better than derailing this one though.mrb123 said:0 -
Thought I'd look at the best value riders on Velogames (most points per unit of cost). These should be those that outperformed expectations.
1. Pogacar - obviously
2. Hirschi - a stage win, a 2nd and a 3rd.
3. Porte - 3rd overall, not past it after all
4. Kragh Andersen - 2 late breakaway wins and a 3rd.
5. Bennett - underpriced for clearly the best sprinter in the field
Next on the list was Carlos Verona, who I'll admit I didn't even notice being at the race.1 -
I suppose that might almost cover one rider on minimum wage...jimmyjams said:
The team competition prize is 50,000 € (and being leader in the team competition brings in 2,800 € per stage, wearing yellow only brings in 500 € per stage). This makes it more valuable than winning the green, polkadot or white jerseys, or than winning 4 stages. Only being in the GC top 4 at the end is worth more.bobmcstuff said:The team competition, like the green jersey competition, is only a competition if people are actually competing for it.
If the green had been another Sagan processional then it would have been rubbish as well. But at least it comes with a jersey and a few appearances on the podium. The team competition is worthless because Movistar are the only team who care about it and it is therefore never a competition. If a few teams were really going for it, and anyone else outside the tour cared, then maybe it would be interesting.
It may not be appear to the viewer that it's being competed for, since the media give it little coverage (just occasionally may comment when 3 riders of the same team finish a stage in the top 20), but I'd bet several teams (not just Movistar), knowing its (financial) value, regard it as more than just incidental, and do actually care about it.
I didn't really mean worthless in a financial sense, worthless in terms of spending ym time and attention on it. If it's a foregone conclusion that one team is going to win it, then it is not very interesting (like Sagan winning green every year for a while - and the same reason people complained about Sky so much). I do think if it had a bit more visibility it might become a bit more exciting as teams might be more keen to go for it. I had forgotten that EF had it for a while though.0 -
Verona was an absolute bargain.kingstongraham said:Thought I'd look at the best value riders on Velogames (most points per unit of cost). These should be those that outperformed expectations.
1. Pogacar - obviously
2. Hirschi - a stage win, a 2nd and a 3rd.
3. Porte - 3rd overall, not past it after all
4. Kragh Andersen - 2 late breakaway wins and a 3rd.
5. Bennett - underpriced for clearly the best sprinter in the field
Next on the list was Carlos Verona, who I'll admit I didn't even notice being at the race.
Just 4 credits for over 510 points scored and he came with a free cloak of invisibility."Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
He's only 27 so still has the potential and the time to become the new Haimar Zubeldia.blazing_saddles said:
Verona was an absolute bargain.kingstongraham said:Thought I'd look at the best value riders on Velogames (most points per unit of cost). These should be those that outperformed expectations.
1. Pogacar - obviously
2. Hirschi - a stage win, a 2nd and a 3rd.
3. Porte - 3rd overall, not past it after all
4. Kragh Andersen - 2 late breakaway wins and a 3rd.
5. Bennett - underpriced for clearly the best sprinter in the field
Next on the list was Carlos Verona, who I'll admit I didn't even notice being at the race.
Just 4 credits for over 510 points scored and he came with a free cloak of invisibility.0 -
Awwwwwe little DQS bubba baby needs to have a dodo on his mammies tummy
BASI Nordic Ski Instructor
Instagramme0 -
Won a stage and wore yellow.
Fair play to him.
I know everyone likes to treat him like he's a sort of teenage Voeckler who's had a lot of sugar, but the difference is he *regularly* delivers. Guy's a serious A lister.
(I seem to find myself defending one day racers all the time).0 -
Definite A lister. People claim he's having a poor season, but he was still second at Milan-San Remo, won a Tour stage and had a stint in yellow. For most riders, that's a great season.0
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Cofidis deserve better for Perez Martin and Herrada . Direct Energie? Once Calmejane went ( for what reason) they had half of nothing0
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He also properly gives it a go. He'll give you a massive attack or a massive chase and either he'll get there or he'll park it - and he can do the same the next day too.andyp said:Definite A lister. People claim he's having a poor season, but he was still second at Milan-San Remo, won a Tour stage and had a stint in yellow. For most riders, that's a great season.
The hyper-activity is annoying and you wonder how much energy that uses up.
He does have a tendency when he knows it's a lost cause to rile up the break for no obvious reason (hence the Voeckler comparison).0 -
Is there a link for the podcast, please?0
