End of Tour Grades and Team of the Tour

24

Comments

  • ajkerr73
    ajkerr73 Posts: 318
    Rider most tipped by Millar and Boulting to do something who ultimately did nothing - Cees Bol
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 18,941
    One of these things is not like the others
    One of these things just doesn't belong
    Can you tell which thing is not like the others
    By the time I finish my song?

    Final GC

    11 Guillaume Martin (FRA) + 16' 58"
    12 Alejandro Valverde (ESP). + 17' 41"
    13 Richard Carapaz (ECU) + 25' 53"
    14 Warren Barguil (FRA) + 31' 04"
    15 Sepp Kuss (USA) + 42' 20"
    16 Pello Bilbao (ESP) + 55' 56"
    17 Nairo Quintana (COL) + 1h 03' 07"
    18 Pierre Rolland (FRA) + 1h 08' 26"
    19 Carlos Verona (ESP) + 1h 19' 54"
    20 Wout van Aert (BEL) + 1h 20' 31"
    21 Marc Soler (ESP) + 1h 31' 53"
    22 Gorka Izagirre (ESP) + 1h 36' 12"
    23 Esteban Chaves (COL) + 1h 38' 45"
    24 Sébastien Reichenbach (SUI) + 1h 39' 27"
    25 Kenny Elissonde (FRA) + 1h 40' 06"

    Wowsers
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • Lanterne_Rogue
    Lanterne_Rogue Posts: 4,091
    ajkerr73 said:

    Rider most tipped by Millar and Boulting to do something who ultimately did nothing - Cees Bol

    I take your Cees Bol and raise you Thomas de Gendt.
    Twitter: @canocola @thedreadships
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 16,861
    bobmcstuff said:

    If NTT deserve an F then Movistar at best an E. NTT were in the break a few times, I genuinely don't remember seeing Movistar do anything besides Mas name being mentioned a couple of times.

    Soler had a good go . And they were active in the pyranees
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • Lanterne_Rogue
    Lanterne_Rogue Posts: 4,091
    Lanterne_Rogue said:

    ajkerr73 said:

    Rider most tipped by Millar and Boulting to do something who ultimately did nothing - Cees Bol

    I take your Cees Bol and raise you Thomas de Gendt.
    Nothing against TdG, by the way - he gave it a go a few days. The ratio of hype to achievement was way out of whack though - it wasn't his tour.
    Twitter: @canocola @thedreadships
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 18,941
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • lettingthedaysgoby
    lettingthedaysgoby Posts: 1,732
    Nah, this was a 5 glass tour. The best for a long time.
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,196
    No_Ta_Doctor said:

    Lanterne_Rogue said:

    Lots of people criticise the team competition (though nowhere near as many as ignore it totally), but I've not seen any suggestions to improve it. Any thoughts?

    I was actually wondering if a team points competition would work.
    Something like that maybe.

    I think the main thing is you have to have a couple of teams really targeting it and therefore making some discernable difference to the race on account of it. So whatever they were to do needs to focus on encouraging teams to compete for it - the actual mechanics of the competition are only important insofar as they encourage that.
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 18,941
    edited September 2020
    Continued a fine tradition of the BR Pro Race forum calling the race too soon
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,196
    takethehighroad said:

    The team competition is big for Movistar as a company, as it means they can boast about it in corporate team building circles.

    Sky did something similar when they won it a few years ago.

    And also, 5th on GC ain't bad really, when you think about it

    They're supposed to be a big GC team though right.
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,196
    RichN95. said:

    lettingthedaysgoby said:

    Nah, this was a 5 glass tour. The best for a long time.


    It was a Tour directed by M. Night Shyamalan. A big twist at the end overshadowing a fairly pedestrian script up to that point.
    Probably agree with that. 4 glasses seems fair. Some good stages for sure, but not a whole lot really on GC, until *that* stage.

    Sounds like I need to review the 2003 tour... before my time.
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 16,861
    edited September 2020
    tailwindhome said:

    2003 was kinda exciting but it never had the intricate tactics we are growing to appreciate I would down grade to 4 2019 and 2020 up graded to 4.5 . No one has 5 ... We need the rate the tour threads
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • DeadCalm
    DeadCalm Posts: 4,100
    bobmcstuff said:

    The team competition, like the green jersey competition, is only a competition if people are actually competing for it.

    EF were competing for it. They actually were leading after stage 14 but imploded on the Grand Colombier.

    Team My Man 2022:

    Antwan Tolhoek, Sam Oomen, Tom Dumoulin, Thymen Arensman, Remco Evenepoel, Benoît Cosnefroy, Tom Pidcock, Mark Cavendish, Romain Bardet
  • takethehighroad
    takethehighroad Posts: 6,648
    bobmcstuff said:

    takethehighroad said:

    The team competition is big for Movistar as a company, as it means they can boast about it in corporate team building circles.

    Sky did something similar when they won it a few years ago.

    And also, 5th on GC ain't bad really, when you think about it

    They're supposed to be a big GC team though right.
    They were, but then ditched Landa and Quintana and Valverde has finally realised his age.

    They're an up and coming team of young/inexperienced GC riders who I would say competed above what they would see as par for the Tour
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 21,813
    bobmcstuff said:

    takethehighroad said:

    The team competition is big for Movistar as a company, as it means they can boast about it in corporate team building circles.

    Sky did something similar when they won it a few years ago.

    And also, 5th on GC ain't bad really, when you think about it

    They're supposed to be a big GC team though right.
    They were supposed to be a big GC team, but this year?
    The ancient one and the young one, desperately searching for some form............any form.
    Despite them having 3 leaders for the past couple of editions, this was their best result since Valverde's podium, 5 years ago.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 13,328
    Hold on peeps, this isn't the rate the race poll thread (which doesn't exist yet).
    Warning No formatter is installed for the format
  • DeadCalm
    DeadCalm Posts: 4,100
    RichN95. said:


    AG2R: Peters got a stage win and Cosnesfroy had two weeks in the Dots. Bardet looked decent until he didn’t.

    Bardet looked decent until he got concussion in the same crash that seemed to badly affect Quintana who was also looking good up to that point.

    Team My Man 2022:

    Antwan Tolhoek, Sam Oomen, Tom Dumoulin, Thymen Arensman, Remco Evenepoel, Benoît Cosnefroy, Tom Pidcock, Mark Cavendish, Romain Bardet
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 21,813
    Eddy Merckx certainly not going to be giving Jumbo an "A" grade.
    He thinks they rode a stupid race:

    https://cyclingtips.com/2020/09/merckx-jumbo-visma-rode-stupidly-at-the-tour/
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 26,261
    How should they have blown it up?

    They already managed to get him behind in echelons, should they have worked for more of that?
  • takethehighroad
    takethehighroad Posts: 6,648
    kingstongraham said:

    How should they have blown it up?

    They already managed to get him behind in echelons, should they have worked for more of that?

    For one thing, maybe using Sep Kuss on the Grand Colombier? That seemed an own goal at the time, even more so now
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 26,261
    takethehighroad said:

    kingstongraham said:

    How should they have blown it up?

    They already managed to get him behind in echelons, should they have worked for more of that?

    For one thing, maybe using Sep Kuss on the Grand Colombier? That seemed an own goal at the time, even more so now
    Can you explain? My memory isn't great. He went to the front towards the very end didn't he, not looking like he was in any trouble and I don't think Pogacar was in danger of being distanced that day?
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,729
    You do wonder if that Pog ride up the Peyrsourde, which was what, fastest ever IIRC, put the frighteners on Jumbo and so they kept it together to stop it being man v man?
    _
  • takethehighroad
    takethehighroad Posts: 6,648
    kingstongraham said:

    takethehighroad said:

    kingstongraham said:

    How should they have blown it up?

    They already managed to get him behind in echelons, should they have worked for more of that?

    For one thing, maybe using Sep Kuss on the Grand Colombier? That seemed an own goal at the time, even more so now
    Can you explain? My memory isn't great. He went to the front towards the very end didn't he, not looking like he was in any trouble and I don't think Pogacar was in danger of being distanced that day?
    He mostly sat on Rog's wheel all the way up, then covered Lopez's move at the end. If he'd done the last 2k hard, the gap could've been more.

    Of course, this assumes that a) Pog would've been distanced and b) Rog had the legs (which I sort of suspect he might not have)
  • m.r.m.
    m.r.m. Posts: 3,342
    If the other guy is stronger or as strong as your guy, the tactic of increasing tempo with Kuss or the cascade of WVA, Bennett, Kuss will never work. He can sit on just like your leader.

    You need to make him work more than your leader. This can be done over the course of the race in crosswinds like Ineos do every chance they get and you must find a way to make the strong opponent chase.

    In this case you needed to make Pogacar chase Dumoulin early in the race as a viable GC threat and then counter. Otherwise he is only doing what Roglic is doing. If he is stronger, he is then expending less energy than your leader in comparison.

    Only exception is if you are much stronger in the ITT. Then you can stay on the same time and build the gap via ITT's. This is what Froome does against pure climbers. Froome however, is able to put in 1-2 huge attacks to distance the balanced GC threats. Roglic never did.
    PTP Champion 2019, 2022 & 2023
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 16,861
    Arkea undershot by a long way . They were never proactive . Just followed .
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 16,861
    edited September 2020
    m.r.m. said:

    If the other guy is stronger or as strong as your guy, the tactic of increasing tempo with Kuss or the cascade of WVA, Bennett, Kuss will never work. He can sit on just like your leader.

    You need to make him work more than your leader. This can be done over the course of the race in crosswinds like Ineos do every chance they get and you must find a way to make the strong opponent chase.

    In this case you needed to make Pogacar chase Dumoulin early in the race as a viable GC threat and then counter. Otherwise he is only doing what Roglic is doing. If he is stronger, he is then expending less energy than your leader in comparison.

    Only exception is if you are much stronger in the ITT. Then you can stay on the same time and build the gap via ITT's. This is what Froome does against pure climbers. Froome however, is able to put in 1-2 huge attacks to distance the balanced GC threats. Roglic never did.

    Totally agree and people did mention it at the time .
    Jumbo needed dumoulin on GC for strategic reasons. just making the pace high so pogacar can come over the top.and drop everyone who mattered kinda eliminated himself from the equation. JV just thought they were too strong for everyone .
    Did alaphillppe win the tour for pogacar that day ?
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 16,861
    edited September 2020
    rick_chasey said:

    You do wonder if that Pog ride up the Peyrsourde, which was what, fastest ever IIRC, put the frighteners on Jumbo and so they kept it together to stop it being man v man?

    Should have been a warning what he could do in the TT in hindsight . But you felt he didn't have too many performances like that in him. It was too late to do anything else by the time he (pog) attacked ... They had eliminated dumoulin themselves who should have been attacking earlier in the race . After that all they could do was hold it together . Sending SEP kuss up the road was viable but super risky especially if you are in yellow or presumptive . Who would do that ... Super nerve
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 16,861
    The gravel day was a potential day for jumbo to have gone on a late offensive .
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 16,861
    DeadCalm said:

    RichN95. said:


    AG2R: Peters got a stage win and Cosnesfroy had two weeks in the Dots. Bardet looked decent until he didn’t.

    Bardet looked decent until he got concussion in the same crash that seemed to badly affect Quintana who was also looking good up to that point.

    Was a shame
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm

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