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TDF 2020 - Stage 14: Clermont-Ferrand - Lyon 194km *Spoilers*

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  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 62,367 Lives Here

    Front group not got message yet, CCC drilling it needlessly...

    Decent finish for both Trentin and GvA, no?
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 62,367 Lives Here
    Belgians also noting ‘most riders are putting out PB numbers’ and recon it’s down to the enforced corona break.
  • Pross said:

    inseine said:

    Pross said:

    It would feel like a bit of a travesty if Sagan took green by being the best rider over the first half of hilly stages before dropping back and finishing with the sprinters. Bennett, WVA and even Hirschi are more deserving assuming they go the full distance.

    Same problem with the climbers jersey
    Yeah, that's been devalued for years.
    The problem in the past was that if the actual Tour winner didn't also win the climber's jersey, he ended up pretty close and conversely the winner finished pretty high up on the GC. It was almost just like a variation on the GC. But it is supposed to be its own competition.

    I would upgrade cat 3 and 4 climbs (i.e. give them more points). This might make the competition, and the stages with the smaller climbs, more competitive, since those aspiring to win the polka dot jersey could then definitely not wait until the hors cat and cat 1 climbs, or a MTF, where one or two good days would leapfrog them over riders who had competed all the cat 3 and cat 4 climbs. After all, 70% of climbs are of the lower categories - the winner of the climber's jersey should be contesting them too.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 62,367 Lives Here
    jimmyjams said:

    Pross said:

    inseine said:

    Pross said:

    It would feel like a bit of a travesty if Sagan took green by being the best rider over the first half of hilly stages before dropping back and finishing with the sprinters. Bennett, WVA and even Hirschi are more deserving assuming they go the full distance.

    Same problem with the climbers jersey
    Yeah, that's been devalued for years.
    The problem in the past was that if the actual Tour winner didn't also win the climber's jersey, he ended up pretty close and conversely the winner finished pretty high up on the GC. It was almost just like a variation on the GC. But it is supposed to be its own competition.

    I would upgrade cat 3 and 4 climbs (i.e. give them more points). This might make the competition, and the stages with the smaller climbs, more competitive, since those aspiring to win the polka dot jersey could then definitely not wait until the hors cat and cat 1 climbs, or a MTF, where one or two good days would leapfrog them over riders who had competed all the cat 3 and cat 4 climbs. After all, 70% of climbs are of the lower categories - the winner of the climber's jersey should be contesting them too.
    Triple points for first climb of the day, double for the high point of the stage if it isn’t the finish.
  • mididoctorsmididoctors Posts: 12,501

    Disc brake wheel changes are slooooow

    I think someone will get a solution soonish thou ( not a disc fan)
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • mididoctorsmididoctors Posts: 12,501
    Bardet blood on the brain
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • mididoctorsmididoctors Posts: 12,501
    Ouffff
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • TheBigBeanTheBigBean Posts: 16,824

    The ITV commentary team annoys me.

    At least we have choice ... Imagine only having duffers for years on end punctuated with suitcase of courage sherwen and legget .. I think hours of listening to anyone is grating after a while truth be told
    "If WvA is allowed to go for the finish" . He's gone for every other one. Why wouldn't he? Why ask the Bora DS this after the usual five minute introductionary ramble to a question? What about asking about the main threats he sees today - that might elicit an interesting answer.

  • Yeah, just heard Boardman say that.
  • I keep waiting for Roglics legs to spin off his hips.
  • mididoctorsmididoctors Posts: 12,501
    Lot of relatively low profile wheels today
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • ProssPross Posts: 32,814

    jimmyjams said:

    Pross said:

    inseine said:

    Pross said:

    It would feel like a bit of a travesty if Sagan took green by being the best rider over the first half of hilly stages before dropping back and finishing with the sprinters. Bennett, WVA and even Hirschi are more deserving assuming they go the full distance.

    Same problem with the climbers jersey
    Yeah, that's been devalued for years.
    The problem in the past was that if the actual Tour winner didn't also win the climber's jersey, he ended up pretty close and conversely the winner finished pretty high up on the GC. It was almost just like a variation on the GC. But it is supposed to be its own competition.

    I would upgrade cat 3 and 4 climbs (i.e. give them more points). This might make the competition, and the stages with the smaller climbs, more competitive, since those aspiring to win the polka dot jersey could then definitely not wait until the hors cat and cat 1 climbs, or a MTF, where one or two good days would leapfrog them over riders who had competed all the cat 3 and cat 4 climbs. After all, 70% of climbs are of the lower categories - the winner of the climber's jersey should be contesting them too.
    Triple points for first climb of the day, double for the high point of the stage if it isn’t the finish.
    It still encourages the philosophy of a small group going, fighting for the points and then sitting up dropping out of the back once caught (or worse still, riders that should be targeting the overall deliberately shipping time so they can chase the jersey).
  • mididoctorsmididoctors Posts: 12,501

    The ITV commentary team annoys me.

    At least we have choice ... Imagine only having duffers for years on end punctuated with suitcase of courage sherwen and legget .. I think hours of listening to anyone is grating after a while truth be told
    "If WvA is allowed to go for the finish" . He's gone for every other one. Why wouldn't he? Why ask the Bora DS this after the usual five minute introductionary ramble to a question? What about asking about the main threats he sees today - that might elicit an interesting answer.

    Send them a strongly worded email ...
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 62,367 Lives Here
    Pross said:

    jimmyjams said:

    Pross said:

    inseine said:

    Pross said:

    It would feel like a bit of a travesty if Sagan took green by being the best rider over the first half of hilly stages before dropping back and finishing with the sprinters. Bennett, WVA and even Hirschi are more deserving assuming they go the full distance.

    Same problem with the climbers jersey
    Yeah, that's been devalued for years.
    The problem in the past was that if the actual Tour winner didn't also win the climber's jersey, he ended up pretty close and conversely the winner finished pretty high up on the GC. It was almost just like a variation on the GC. But it is supposed to be its own competition.

    I would upgrade cat 3 and 4 climbs (i.e. give them more points). This might make the competition, and the stages with the smaller climbs, more competitive, since those aspiring to win the polka dot jersey could then definitely not wait until the hors cat and cat 1 climbs, or a MTF, where one or two good days would leapfrog them over riders who had competed all the cat 3 and cat 4 climbs. After all, 70% of climbs are of the lower categories - the winner of the climber's jersey should be contesting them too.
    Triple points for first climb of the day, double for the high point of the stage if it isn’t the finish.
    It still encourages the philosophy of a small group going, fighting for the points and then sitting up dropping out of the back once caught (or worse still, riders that should be targeting the overall deliberately shipping time so they can chase the jersey).
    Would make the beginning more fun.

    Don’t think it’s realistic to expect anything else. It’s a different competition so it’ll have different tactics
  • ProssPross Posts: 32,814

    Pross said:

    Bora aren't going to be popular with the GC teams if they keep this going to the finish.

    Ha Kennaugh saying same as I type!

    Maybe but all this patron GC priority stuff is so last century now .. no ... Make em fight it out and increase the number of variables GC tacticians have to contend with . You have a team help you win yellow and strategise round don't you? This new evolving format creates unpredictability. I am in favour
    Sure, I'm quite happy about it as I'm not a fan of semi-rest days. It's the attrition that will hopefully make the last week interesting. I just suspect those challenging for GC won't be enjoying it. Seems to have calmed down now though anyway.
  • ProssPross Posts: 32,814

    Belgians *scathing* of ineos tactics yesterday.

    Any particular reason? It did seem an odd day to ride on the front with that finish climb. Maybe they knew Bernal wasn't at his best and wanted to control things a bit.
  • TheBigBeanTheBigBean Posts: 16,824

    The ITV commentary team annoys me.

    At least we have choice ... Imagine only having duffers for years on end punctuated with suitcase of courage sherwen and legget .. I think hours of listening to anyone is grating after a while truth be told
    "If WvA is allowed to go for the finish" . He's gone for every other one. Why wouldn't he? Why ask the Bora DS this after the usual five minute introductionary ramble to a question? What about asking about the main threats he sees today - that might elicit an interesting answer.

    Send them a strongly worded email ...
    I'm fighting a losing battle. "Expert" pundits have contaminated every sport.

    I found it really interesting when Strauss retired and joined the Sky cricket commentary team. He was able to explain the tactics rather than declare them wrong.

    Anyway, I'll stop ranting!
  • ProssPross Posts: 32,814

    Pross said:

    jimmyjams said:

    Pross said:

    inseine said:

    Pross said:

    It would feel like a bit of a travesty if Sagan took green by being the best rider over the first half of hilly stages before dropping back and finishing with the sprinters. Bennett, WVA and even Hirschi are more deserving assuming they go the full distance.

    Same problem with the climbers jersey
    Yeah, that's been devalued for years.
    The problem in the past was that if the actual Tour winner didn't also win the climber's jersey, he ended up pretty close and conversely the winner finished pretty high up on the GC. It was almost just like a variation on the GC. But it is supposed to be its own competition.

    I would upgrade cat 3 and 4 climbs (i.e. give them more points). This might make the competition, and the stages with the smaller climbs, more competitive, since those aspiring to win the polka dot jersey could then definitely not wait until the hors cat and cat 1 climbs, or a MTF, where one or two good days would leapfrog them over riders who had competed all the cat 3 and cat 4 climbs. After all, 70% of climbs are of the lower categories - the winner of the climber's jersey should be contesting them too.
    Triple points for first climb of the day, double for the high point of the stage if it isn’t the finish.
    It still encourages the philosophy of a small group going, fighting for the points and then sitting up dropping out of the back once caught (or worse still, riders that should be targeting the overall deliberately shipping time so they can chase the jersey).
    Would make the beginning more fun.

    Don’t think it’s realistic to expect anything else. It’s a different competition so it’ll have different tactics
    Yeah, it's probably rose tinted glasses but it feels like it used to genuinely be the best climber that won it until Virenque came along. Probably being unfair though.
  • Time the climbs and points for fastest riders. A few people breaking out of the bunch as they try to get the best time might shake things up. Might make it harder for the GC boys to control, as well.



  • Ouch. Hope he gets better soon.

    Presumably this happens to loads of people though, and not being top sportspeople they just don't get scanned?
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 62,367 Lives Here
    Pross said:

    Pross said:

    jimmyjams said:

    Pross said:

    inseine said:

    Pross said:

    It would feel like a bit of a travesty if Sagan took green by being the best rider over the first half of hilly stages before dropping back and finishing with the sprinters. Bennett, WVA and even Hirschi are more deserving assuming they go the full distance.

    Same problem with the climbers jersey
    Yeah, that's been devalued for years.
    The problem in the past was that if the actual Tour winner didn't also win the climber's jersey, he ended up pretty close and conversely the winner finished pretty high up on the GC. It was almost just like a variation on the GC. But it is supposed to be its own competition.

    I would upgrade cat 3 and 4 climbs (i.e. give them more points). This might make the competition, and the stages with the smaller climbs, more competitive, since those aspiring to win the polka dot jersey could then definitely not wait until the hors cat and cat 1 climbs, or a MTF, where one or two good days would leapfrog them over riders who had competed all the cat 3 and cat 4 climbs. After all, 70% of climbs are of the lower categories - the winner of the climber's jersey should be contesting them too.
    Triple points for first climb of the day, double for the high point of the stage if it isn’t the finish.
    It still encourages the philosophy of a small group going, fighting for the points and then sitting up dropping out of the back once caught (or worse still, riders that should be targeting the overall deliberately shipping time so they can chase the jersey).
    Would make the beginning more fun.

    Don’t think it’s realistic to expect anything else. It’s a different competition so it’ll have different tactics
    Yeah, it's probably rose tinted glasses but it feels like it used to genuinely be the best climber that won it until Virenque came along. Probably being unfair though.
    Tactics were different then too.
  • david37david37 Posts: 1,313
    Bora still nailing this and the time to bennet is going out all the time
  • TheBigBeanTheBigBean Posts: 16,824
    Pross said:

    Pross said:

    jimmyjams said:

    Pross said:

    inseine said:

    Pross said:

    It would feel like a bit of a travesty if Sagan took green by being the best rider over the first half of hilly stages before dropping back and finishing with the sprinters. Bennett, WVA and even Hirschi are more deserving assuming they go the full distance.

    Same problem with the climbers jersey
    Yeah, that's been devalued for years.
    The problem in the past was that if the actual Tour winner didn't also win the climber's jersey, he ended up pretty close and conversely the winner finished pretty high up on the GC. It was almost just like a variation on the GC. But it is supposed to be its own competition.

    I would upgrade cat 3 and 4 climbs (i.e. give them more points). This might make the competition, and the stages with the smaller climbs, more competitive, since those aspiring to win the polka dot jersey could then definitely not wait until the hors cat and cat 1 climbs, or a MTF, where one or two good days would leapfrog them over riders who had competed all the cat 3 and cat 4 climbs. After all, 70% of climbs are of the lower categories - the winner of the climber's jersey should be contesting them too.
    Triple points for first climb of the day, double for the high point of the stage if it isn’t the finish.
    It still encourages the philosophy of a small group going, fighting for the points and then sitting up dropping out of the back once caught (or worse still, riders that should be targeting the overall deliberately shipping time so they can chase the jersey).
    Would make the beginning more fun.

    Don’t think it’s realistic to expect anything else. It’s a different competition so it’ll have different tactics
    Yeah, it's probably rose tinted glasses but it feels like it used to genuinely be the best climber that won it until Virenque came along. Probably being unfair though.
    That was in the days that best TTer won the tour.
  • davidofdavidof Posts: 2,835

    Bardet blood on the brain

    He needs a tap on the head
    BASI Nordic Ski Instructor
    Instagramme
  • Pross said:

    Pross said:

    jimmyjams said:

    Pross said:

    inseine said:

    Pross said:

    It would feel like a bit of a travesty if Sagan took green by being the best rider over the first half of hilly stages before dropping back and finishing with the sprinters. Bennett, WVA and even Hirschi are more deserving assuming they go the full distance.

    Same problem with the climbers jersey
    Yeah, that's been devalued for years.
    The problem in the past was that if the actual Tour winner didn't also win the climber's jersey, he ended up pretty close and conversely the winner finished pretty high up on the GC. It was almost just like a variation on the GC. But it is supposed to be its own competition.

    I would upgrade cat 3 and 4 climbs (i.e. give them more points). This might make the competition, and the stages with the smaller climbs, more competitive, since those aspiring to win the polka dot jersey could then definitely not wait until the hors cat and cat 1 climbs, or a MTF, where one or two good days would leapfrog them over riders who had competed all the cat 3 and cat 4 climbs. After all, 70% of climbs are of the lower categories - the winner of the climber's jersey should be contesting them too.
    Triple points for first climb of the day, double for the high point of the stage if it isn’t the finish.
    It still encourages the philosophy of a small group going, fighting for the points and then sitting up dropping out of the back once caught (or worse still, riders that should be targeting the overall deliberately shipping time so they can chase the jersey).
    Would make the beginning more fun.

    Don’t think it’s realistic to expect anything else. It’s a different competition so it’ll have different tactics
    Yeah, it's probably rose tinted glasses but it feels like it used to genuinely be the best climber that won it until Virenque came along. Probably being unfair though.
    Think you underrate Virenque (albeit his tactic in his last 2 years was to go for the smaller climbs, a tactic he learnt from Jalabert's successes in 2001 and 2002).
    But there were occasionally others before him who did similar, several in the 1970s, Vallet in 1982, even Claveyrolat in 1990, who was a competent climber but not the best, used the same tactic.
  • alan_aalan_a Posts: 1,458

    The ITV commentary team annoys me.

    At least we have choice ... Imagine only having duffers for years on end punctuated with suitcase of courage sherwen and legget .. I think hours of listening to anyone is grating after a while truth be told
    "If WvA is allowed to go for the finish" . He's gone for every other one. Why wouldn't he? Why ask the Bora DS this after the usual five minute introductionary ramble to a question? What about asking about the main threats he sees today - that might elicit an interesting answer.

    Send them a strongly worded email ...
    I'm fighting a losing battle. "Expert" pundits have contaminated every sport.

    I found it really interesting when Strauss retired and joined the Sky cricket commentary team. He was able to explain the tactics rather than declare them wrong.

    Anyway, I'll stop ranting!
    Is this not exactly what David M does, he fortells possible tactics and explains them as they are happening. I love his input, possibly best sports expert broadcasting just now.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 62,367 Lives Here
    Mmm little nervous in the peloton in the town
  • Tony Martin drilling it on the front now
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 62,367 Lives Here
    Looking forward to this finale
  • Anyone else getting "massive crash" vibes here?
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