TdF 2020 Alaphillipe and Pinot

FreddieVonRost

Is there any way back after blowing up on the first big mountain stage? Will France be disappointed again?

Yes and yes IMHO, what does everybody else think? Is there a potential light at the end of the talent tunnel in the near future?

salsiccia1

No, especially not a blow up that big
No, they love a gallant loser more than a winner

Matti66

I don’t think the French are any different to the rest if us regarding winning the Tour de france , the Press may spin the gallant loser story as well thats their job i suppose. Lot of pressure on any emerging talent cannot help. The french seem to do well in pro conti level stuff , and have a ton of good races we would love to have . I think if the talent pool is big its hard to nurture it all , England Rugby or Football might have similar issues . Unless a once in a generation type rider emerges . Also way more competition now globally which must have an impact . Sorry for long post !

pblakeney

Nans Peters and Romain Bardet gave plenty for the French to cheer about today.

bobmcstuff

Alaphilippe was never really going to win.

Pinot, well. He was never going to win either but for different reasons.

salsiccia1

Matti66 - No apology needed, they're good points.

My post was bit tongue in cheek, but in seriousness there will be disappointment in Pinot especially.

One thing that came through in some of the autobiographies of English-speaking riders from the 80s was the lack of hunger in the French amateurs when they rode for ACBB or whoever. I wonder if that perpetuated for a while which has informed their relative lack of success until recent times, alongside an unwillingness to adapt to changing methods etc. I don't know if there's anything in that but it's a theory.

Thankfully they seem to be coming back to the top table. There's no French rider I have great affection for but it would be great to see a French winner of the Tour.

orraloon

Wasn't there a poll on here some time / years ago about the next French winner of TdF? I think (or perhaps thought about) voting for the 'hasn't been born yet' option. Yip, still of that opinion. Either a French rider needs to join and believe in a properly managed team or alt a French team needs to get their sh1t together.

RichN95.

The problem is there are six French teams in this race, five with mostly French riders. ASO have indulged them too much for too long.
They'll always get a Tour slot, the sponsors will keep stumping up the cash, so the riders aren't under pressure to perform. Plus three of the teams have been run by the same three people for nearly a quarter of a century with little success.

Matti66

salsiccia1 said:

Matti66 - No apology needed, they're good points.

My post was bit tongue in cheek, but in seriousness there will be disappointment in Pinot especially.

One thing that came through in some of the autobiographies of English-speaking riders from the 80s was the lack of hunger in the French amateurs when they rode for ACBB or whoever. I wonder if that perpetuated for a while which has informed their relative lack of success until recent times, alongside an unwillingness to adapt to changing methods etc. I don't know if there's anything in that but it's a theory.

Thankfully they seem to be coming back to the top table. There's no French rider I have great affection for but it would be great to see a French winner of the Tour.

I don't have any affection for any either if I’m honest . And as you say cruising on a good salary type of thing . Also as we know cycling has been dragged into the modern world of evidence based performance and coaching and French Cycling generally didn't appear take to that or appreciate it.

davidof

orraloon said:

Wasn't there a poll on here some time / years ago about the next French winner of TdF? I think (or perhaps thought about) voting for the 'hasn't been born yet' option. Yip, still of that opinion. Either a French rider needs to join and believe in a properly managed team or alt a French team needs to get their censored together.

My poll!

Pinot says today's collapse is a turning point in his career.

blazing_saddles

Alaphilippe will unload his entire wardrobe of panache over the next two weeks and probably bag another stage win at least.
For the GC, they still have what appears to be a resurgent Romain and the gallant Guillaume.

Pinot? He's a lost cause I'm afraid.
He just doesn't have the strength of character and belief. His hissy fit at the Dauphine was a clear indicator of the inability to cope with the pressure at the first sign of adversity.

RichN95.

orraloon said:

Wasn't there a poll on here some time / years ago about the next French winner of TdF? I think (or perhaps thought about) voting for the 'hasn't been born yet' option. Yip, still of that opinion. Either a French rider needs to join and believe in a properly managed team or alt a French team needs to get their censored together.

Or maybe someone of a different nationality, let's say Russian, decides that he's actually French. There were reports in the French media today suggesting this will happen after the Olympics.

bobmcstuff

davidof said:

orraloon said:

Wasn't there a poll on here some time / years ago about the next French winner of TdF? I think (or perhaps thought about) voting for the 'hasn't been born yet' option. Yip, still of that opinion. Either a French rider needs to join and believe in a properly managed team or alt a French team needs to get their censored together.

My poll!

Pinot says today's collapse is a turning point in his career.

Hasn't he said that before?

ddraver

Turning Point in so far that journos might stop calling him a favourite and thus he will stop being called a favourite even though he hasn't been a genuine contender...ever?

DeadCalm

RichN95. said:

orraloon said:

Wasn't there a poll on here some time / years ago about the next French winner of TdF? I think (or perhaps thought about) voting for the 'hasn't been born yet' option. Yip, still of that opinion. Either a French rider needs to join and believe in a properly managed team or alt a French team needs to get their censored together.

Or maybe someone of a different nationality, let's say Russian, decides that he's actually French. There were reports in the French media today suggesting this will happen after the Olympics.

In fairness, Sivakov is more French than Froome is British. Sivakov was born in France and has (and continues) to pay French taxes.

DeadCalm

RichN95. said:

The problem is there are six French teams in this race, five with mostly French riders. ASO have indulged them too much for too long.
They'll always get a Tour slot, the sponsors will keep stumping up the cash, so the riders aren't under pressure to perform. Plus three of the teams have been run by the same three people for nearly a quarter of a century with little success.

You've been banging this drum for a while now. It's hard to argue against given the evidence, but I do believe that it is a tad more complex than that.

Dorset_Boy

I like Allaphillippebut he's not a GT GC contender.
Pinot has always been too fragile - that first showed when he had the descending skills of a Zakarin a few years back, and he makes his own ill-fortune far too often. Slightest bit of pressure and he crumples.

I agree there are too many french teams granted entry to the Tour and so they don't have the hunger, and seem stuck in their outdated ways.

RichN95.

DeadCalm said:

In fairness, Sivakov is more French than Froome is British. Sivakov was born in France and has (and continues) to pay French taxes.

Definitely. He's about as Russian as Froome is British though.

gweeds

Pinot has never shown he has the durability to win a GT. Much like Porte. This year is no different.

Alaphillipe had an outlier year last year for me. Stunning ride after a stunning spring but it’s meant he came into this year with an unfair amount of expectation on his shoulders.

With the third week being as
tough as it is it made Pinot an even more unlikely challenger.

gsk82

RichN95. said:

DeadCalm said:

In fairness, Sivakov is more French than Froome is British. Sivakov was born in France and has (and continues) to pay French taxes.

Definitely. He's about as Russian as Froome is British though.

I've got a mate who moved to Oz a few years ago. His son will never live in Britain, but he's bringing him up as British and as far as I'm concerned he'll always be British

orraloon

Why did Alaphilippe pull that 4 sec break away stunt today? Surely you know your state and ride accordingly? Didn't even have the camera bike full on at the time.

mididoctors

Alaphillppe attacked himself and blew the race apart ... Top score . Pinot very disappointing. Who knows .

RichN95.

gsk82 said:

I've got a mate who moved to Oz a few years ago. His son will never live in Britain, but he's bringing him up as British and as far as I'm concerned he'll always be British

On the other hand, the son of a British sporting legend




It's 2020. Plenty of people have more than one nationality, even more than one passport. Sports people only pick one because they have to, and they largely do for sporting reasons. I'm half Welsh, half English. I support England at football but Wales at rugby.

ddraver

Because that's what he does...

There are two things in cycling fandom that should die

( a) The road is not the be all and end all in some countries with rich cycling traditions)

And in thic case

b) Being a GC rider is not the only worthwhile approach to a pro-cycling career.

Alaphilippe had a glorious summer last year and we should enjoy it for what it was. He is not a GC rider and it would massively decrease the pleasure of watching cycling if he was made to do so. Hopefully this year may kill that off and next year he can lose 15 minutes on stage 1 and go back to doing what he does best.

(See also Tommy Voeckler, Fabian Cancellara, Thomas De Gendt etc)

Edit: 3 things - Pinot as a GT 'contender'

RichN95.

ddraver said:

Alaphilippe had a glorious summer last year and we should enjoy it for what it was. He is not a GC rider and it would massively decrease the pleasure of watching cycling if he was made to do so. Hopefully this year may kill that off and next year he can lose 15 minutes on stage 1 and go back to doing what he does best.

I admired Alaphilippe's little attack today before immediately getting dropped. It was almost to say I'm an attacking rider, but I'm not a GC rider.

pinno

TBH, is Deceuninck Quick step really a GT team? Could they really challenge for a GT? It's a dyed in the wool classics squad surely.

Pross

I'm hoping Bardet has got over the stage hunting / KoM chasing phase and realises he's got the potential to do it if he knuckles down and works on his time trialling.

It's interesting to see how Cofidis have gone from being one of those teams Rich talks about enjoying the guaranteed entry to the Tour and have become one of the more visible teams in this race. Long may it continue.

Pross

RichN95. said:

ddraver said:

Alaphilippe had a glorious summer last year and we should enjoy it for what it was. He is not a GC rider and it would massively decrease the pleasure of watching cycling if he was made to do so. Hopefully this year may kill that off and next year he can lose 15 minutes on stage 1 and go back to doing what he does best.

I admired Alaphilippe's little attack today before immediately getting dropped. It was almost to say I'm an attacking rider, but I'm not a GC rider.

For me he showed that last year he wasn't pushed hard enough for most of his time in yellow.

Edit - and that the field wasn't very strong.

m.r.m.

Alaphilippe's attack today was comically stupid. Even great riders can screw up from time to time and do stupid things (see Cancellara + Flag + Roubaix )

Lanterne_Rogue

RichN95. said:

I admired Alaphilippe's little attack today before immediately getting dropped. It was almost to say I'm an attacking rider, but I'm not a GC rider.

Sometimes when your body's feeling lethargic you can kick it into gear by just getting stuck in physically, or by getting angry. It felt to me like Alaphilippe knew he wasn't on it and wanted to find out if giving it a dig would shake him out of it. It didn't, but sitting on the back of the group until it kicked off wasn't going to sort it out either.

jimmyjams

I'll generously suggest Alaphilippe's short-lived attack was an attempt to break the constant hard rhythm being set by, I think, Jumbo at the time – he is a rider who is more suited to alternating changes of pace. So I think he hoped a few would follow him, and thus the little Jumbo train at the front would be dismantled. But nobody followed.