Foome and Thomas non Tour selection

2

Comments

  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,701
    A lot
    Pross said:

    ugo.santalucia said:

    Pross said:

    ugo.santalucia said:

    Pross said:

    ugo.santalucia said:

    They're old. Ineos have stronger, younger GC men, simples, really

    It's a lot of podium experience to leave out that could be supporting these 'stronger, younger GC men'. OK Froome might not offer much in a support role but I'm pretty sure Geraint would have done so if that was the role he was given.
    I'm not sure... I have the impression last year GT was doing his own race and would have been quite keen for Bernal to go down and leave him the top spot in the team. Traditionally, having two (or in this case 4) GC men has been more problematic, rather than less. There are exceptions, but 1996, 2009 and 2012 tour, as well as 1994 Giro spring to mind as cases where the team had to step in to make sure things didn't spin out of control... and then of course Movistar proves again and again how having too many GC men is in nobody's interest
    He went in as reigning champion and joint leader last year and was in with a chance to win right up to the final mountain stage so was entitled to do his own thing.
    If I remember correctly, he was only still in the race because one stage was shortened due to freak weather. Either way, your team mate is in yellow, you work for him, you don't seek your chances, end of the story. I think Bernal will be relieved not to have internal competition
    I don't think you remember correctly.

    I think if Thomas had been asked to go as support for Bernal he would have gone as support. He's shown plenty of times before that he's willing to give up any personal ambitions for the designated team leader.
    Agreed.
    Some very unfair criticism floating around this forum today.
    Is there anyone better in that Tour team who can climb, deal with crosswinds and keep Bernal in position when the going gets rough and tough?

    He did a pretty fair job of getting rid of riders like Kruijswijk on the HC Col de Porte last week and when Sivakov took over, he lasted less than a km.
    Give him another two weeks and he'd be better.
    This team is carrying an extra rouleur because he isn't there to double up and I think that will be a decision that comes back to haunt DB in the final week of the Tour.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,148
    It's going to look reckless to have left two riders behind with 5 wins and 3 second places between them over the past 8 years of Ineos fail to take the win.

    I think I agree with DeVlaemink though and it's better for Thomas that he goes to the Giro with the possibility of competing for the win than going to the Tour to be third man in a mountain train.
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,447
    DeVlaeminck said:

    If I were Thomas I'd be quite happy with this decision. I get that riders want to ride the Tour but they also want to win races and not be made to look like they are past their sell by date. The Giro gives him a bit of time to show he's still the rider of the last few years, maybe win the race and go into 2021 in a strong position.

    Sky/Ineos have a pretty awful record at the Giro though.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 26,969
    andyp said:

    DeVlaeminck said:

    If I were Thomas I'd be quite happy with this decision. I get that riders want to ride the Tour but they also want to win races and not be made to look like they are past their sell by date. The Giro gives him a bit of time to show he's still the rider of the last few years, maybe win the race and go into 2021 in a strong position.

    Sky/Ineos have a pretty awful record at the Giro though.
    Currently have the past 2 winners on their roster though.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • gsk82
    gsk82 Posts: 3,570
    pblakeney said:

    andyp said:

    DeVlaeminck said:

    If I were Thomas I'd be quite happy with this decision. I get that riders want to ride the Tour but they also want to win races and not be made to look like they are past their sell by date. The Giro gives him a bit of time to show he's still the rider of the last few years, maybe win the race and go into 2021 in a strong position.

    Sky/Ineos have a pretty awful record at the Giro though.
    Currently have the past 2 winners on their roster though.
    And a couple of other podium finishes with Uran Uran Uran
    "Unfortunately these days a lot of people don’t understand the real quality of a bike" Ernesto Colnago
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,447
    They've had two Giro podiums in ten years - Froome's win in 2018 and Uran's second place, when he was very definitely plan B, in 2013.

    For the best GT team of the past ten years, that's a pretty poor return.
  • N0bodyOfTheGoat
    N0bodyOfTheGoat Posts: 6,033
    Surprising news, but without knowing what Thomas and Froome were supposed to do in the recent races to get a TDF spot, it's all speculative.
    ================
    2020 Voodoo Marasa
    2017 Cube Attain GTC Pro Disc 2016
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  • Matti66
    Matti66 Posts: 190
    Maybe Worth reminding that they had a lot of bad luck with crashes , and illnesses , time penalty’s .
  • mrb123
    mrb123 Posts: 4,787
    Matti66 said:

    Maybe Worth reminding that they had a lot of bad luck with crashes , and illnesses , time penalty’s .

    I think G was potentially in the form to win it the year he was wiped out on the Blockhaus stage.
  • zest28
    zest28 Posts: 403
    edited August 2020
    ugo.santalucia said:

    Pross said:

    ugo.santalucia said:

    Pross said:

    ugo.santalucia said:

    They're old. Ineos have stronger, younger GC men, simples, really

    It's a lot of podium experience to leave out that could be supporting these 'stronger, younger GC men'. OK Froome might not offer much in a support role but I'm pretty sure Geraint would have done so if that was the role he was given.
    I'm not sure... I have the impression last year GT was doing his own race and would have been quite keen for Bernal to go down and leave him the top spot in the team. Traditionally, having two (or in this case 4) GC men has been more problematic, rather than less. There are exceptions, but 1996, 2009 and 2012 tour, as well as 1994 Giro spring to mind as cases where the team had to step in to make sure things didn't spin out of control... and then of course Movistar proves again and again how having too many GC men is in nobody's interest
    He went in as reigning champion and joint leader last year and was in with a chance to win right up to the final mountain stage so was entitled to do his own thing.
    If I remember correctly, he was only still in the race because one stage was shortened due to freak weather. Either way, your team mate is in yellow, you work for him, you don't seek your chances, end of the story. I think Bernal will be relieved not to have internal competition
    Bernal is the one who benefited from that shorted stage as Thomas was preparing for an attack later.

    Once the stage was called off, Bernal pretty much had the TdF in the bag.
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,701
    I am just as disappointed by the fact that the decision torpedoes Thomas's classics opportunity.
    He should have had great form to first ride the Ardennes doubles and then had a couple of weeks to slightly beef up for the cobbles.
    That possibility went out the window, yesterday.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 26,969
    Classics spring 2021?
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • m.r.m.
    m.r.m. Posts: 3,455
    I just don't get the impression he has any real interest in the classics unfortunately. Think he is only thinking Tour, Tour, Tour...
    PTP Champion 2019, 2022 & 2023
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,660
    ddraver in the same, but different, thread said:

    Thomas v Kruiswijk has the making of a fun 10 days.

    Throw a Yates in there too...


    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,660
    edited August 2020
    Doub
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,701
    edited August 2020
    Kruijswijk's reaction ( or maybe it was Rick's)




    Geraint's.





    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,625
    Yeah I like Kruiswijk a lot.

    Wouldn't say he has panache however.
    _
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,701
    rick_chasey said:

    Yeah I like Kruiswijk a lot.

    Wouldn't say he has panache however.

    Panache is overrated...........well by the French at least.
    Steve is as solid as his shoulders.

    Wout is currently working on improving your mood, via the Belgian champs.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,625
    I say that he did throw in a very early attack on a stage that finished up the Alp.

    _
  • brundonbianchi
    brundonbianchi Posts: 689
    I’m not surprised Froome got the heave ho. He was refusing ( I very much doubt he was unable ) to take his turn at the head of the train. So it’s a mutual ‘up yours’. His mind is with Israel Start-Up Nation, so that’s that as far as Intravenous and Froome are concerned.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,241
    blazing_saddles said:



    Panache is overrated...........well by the French at least.


    I remember the rugby player Will Greenwood said the opposition he disliked the most was France because when the lost they still tried to claim victory on a moral or artistic level
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • gsk82
    gsk82 Posts: 3,570
    blazing_saddles said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Yeah I like Kruiswijk a lot.

    Wouldn't say he has panache however.

    Panache is overrated...........well by the French at least.
    Steve is as solid as his shoulders.

    Wout is currently working on improving your mood, via the Belgian champs.
    As solid as his broken shoulder? :s
    "Unfortunately these days a lot of people don’t understand the real quality of a bike" Ernesto Colnago
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,701
    gsk82 said:

    blazing_saddles said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Yeah I like Kruiswijk a lot.

    Wouldn't say he has panache however.

    Panache is overrated...........well by the French at least.
    Steve is as solid as his shoulders.

    Wout is currently working on improving your mood, via the Belgian champs.
    As solid as his broken shoulder? :s
    Who has a broken shoulder?
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • m.r.m.
    m.r.m. Posts: 3,455
    Kruijswijk with dislocated and fractured shoulder.
    PTP Champion 2019, 2022 & 2023
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 14,535
    blazing_saddles said:

    I am just as disappointed by the fact that the decision torpedoes Thomas's classics opportunity.
    He should have had great form to first ride the Ardennes doubles and then had a couple of weeks to slightly beef up for the cobbles.
    That possibility went out the window, yesterday.

    Thomas hasn't ridden cobbles since 2018 (P-R: DNF). Before that, Flanders is 2016.

    He's not just going to swap back to the classics now.

    Warning No formatter is installed for the format
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,701
    No_Ta_Doctor said:

    blazing_saddles said:

    I am just as disappointed by the fact that the decision torpedoes Thomas's classics opportunity.
    He should have had great form to first ride the Ardennes doubles and then had a couple of weeks to slightly beef up for the cobbles.
    That possibility went out the window, yesterday.

    Thomas hasn't ridden cobbles since 2018 (P-R: DNF). Before that, Flanders is 2016.

    He's not just going to swap back to the classics now.

    I think you are missing my point but never mind.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,790
    Thomas showed something but the giro makes more sense ...froome is way off still I guess
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • inseine
    inseine Posts: 5,788
    Too early to make the perennial speculation about Ineos winning all three GTs? I guess it's going to be harder than ever to muster teams for all three, especially to help Froome , or to find a home who wants to.
    http://cyclinganddesign.blogspot.fr/
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,148
    Is Dunbar scheduled for any of the GT squads? He seems a bit of a forgotten entity on the Ineos squad but I could see him doing well at the Vuelta given a chance.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,241
    Pross said:

    Is Dunbar scheduled for any of the GT squads? He seems a bit of a forgotten entity on the Ineos squad but I could see him doing well at the Vuelta given a chance.


    He was doing all the races with Carapaz so I'd assume the Giro
    Twitter: @RichN95

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