Pro cyclists ......

zest28

So we got pro cyclists like Dylan Groenewegen who cheats by pushing his opponents into the barriers (this is not the first time he has done it). What is even more crazy, is that other pro cyclists such as Simon Geschke from CCC are attacking the organizers rather than Dylan Groenewegen.

What the hell is wrong with these people? Dylan should be thrown in jail and every single pro cyclist who defends Dylan needs to be banned for life.

What is also disturbing is that Team ineos / sky still employs racists like Moscon who has abused black pro riders.

Luckly, Simon Geschke will be out of job soon hopefully considering that CCC will end their sponsership after 2020.

gsk82

No replied needed

zest28

gsk82 said:

No replied needed

Thanks for supporting criminal and racist behavior in pro cycling.

rick_chasey

What’s racism got to do with this?

gweeds

Nothing. Let's not feed this particular troll.

blazing_saddles

zest28 said:

So we got pro cyclists like Dylan Groenewegen who cheats by pushing his opponents into the barriers (this is not the first time he has done it). What is even more crazy, is that other pro cyclists such as Simon Geschke from CCC are attacking the organizers rather than Dylan Groenewegen.

What the hell is wrong with these people? Dylan should be thrown in jail and every single pro cyclist who defends Dylan needs to be banned for life.

What is also disturbing is that Team ineos / sky still employs racists like Moscon who has abused black pro riders.

Luckly, Simon Geschke will be out of job soon hopefully considering that CCC will end their sponsership after 2020.

You are a very disturbed individual.
Seek help.

zest28

blazing_saddles said:

zest28 said:

So we got pro cyclists like Dylan Groenewegen who cheats by pushing his opponents into the barriers (this is not the first time he has done it). What is even more crazy, is that other pro cyclists such as Simon Geschke from CCC are attacking the organizers rather than Dylan Groenewegen.

What the hell is wrong with these people? Dylan should be thrown in jail and every single pro cyclist who defends Dylan needs to be banned for life.

What is also disturbing is that Team ineos / sky still employs racists like Moscon who has abused black pro riders.

Luckly, Simon Geschke will be out of job soon hopefully considering that CCC will end their sponsership after 2020.

You are a very disturbed individual.
Seek help.

I suggest you seek help since you are fine with people smashing other people in the barriers at 50 mph in order to win. Fabio could have been killed yesterday with the criminal behavior of Dylan who has done this multiple times in the past.

And if you are also fine that Moscon is still in pro cycling despite being a clear racist and also has a history assaulting other pro cyclists, that says enough about you.

kingstongraham

Are you the pro-armstrong thread guy?

zest28

kingstongraham said:

Are you the pro-armstrong thread guy?

Taking substances which everybody was on and willing to kill other pro riders (and spectactors) for a win is not even on the same level.

50x11

I've been waiting for someone to be able to bring Ineos/Sky into this.


I agree DG deserves a ban, the rest of the season at least. Jackobsen may never race again, dependant on how bad the physical and mental scars are.

DeVlaeminck

Shorter bans imposed more consistently will be more effective in preventing sprinters blocking others than one massive ban imposed when the consequences are more severe. No sprinter expects their opponent to end up in hospital, they are hoping to squeeze them just enough that they back off yet it could be argued the gap was still there.

50x11

DeVlaeminck said:

Shorter bans imposed more consistently will be more effective in preventing sprinters blocking others than one massive ban imposed when the consequences are more severe. No sprinter expects their opponent to end up in hospital, they are hoping to squeeze them just enough that they back off yet it could be argued the gap was still there.

Very good point and I whole heartedly agree with it. Well said.

No_Ta_Doctor

Yep, the periodic freak out and call for life suspension /imprisonment /death penalty is pretty ridiculous. It only happens when the consequences are bad. Better to have regular smaller penalties that are meaningful

junglist_matty

DG only did what most sprinters do all the time, they barge and block one another all the time in bunch sprints to try and protect their position.

What surprises me is the lack of proper safety barriers at sprint finishes.... The usual choice is those metal barriers which are probably worse than if there was nothing there at all. Surely in this day and age, someone could come up with a decent safety barrier that would at least help to soften a sprinters fall. I.e just look at F1 where there's tyre walls to soften impacts after huge gravel pits. Trying to stop sprinters doing what they do (barge for position) is just not going to work, accidents will always happen.

Pross

Again, the problem with cycling road racing is that it is on public roads and all barriers and other finish infrastructure has to be of a type that can be erected and dismantled in a few hours to minimise the time the road is closed. Riders regularly hit the barriers but this is the first time I've seen anything like that.

junglist_matty

Sure, but there must be possibilities for something safer, that's quick to erect.... Inflatable crash mats/padding, custom linkable barriers etc... I'm no safety expert, but surely it can be done.

rick_chasey

junglist_matty said:

Sure, but there must be possibilities for something safer, that's quick to erect.... Inflatable crash mats/padding, custom linkable barriers etc... I'm no safety expert, but surely it can be done.

If you make it that onerous to have a sprint finish they just won’t have a sprint finish.

How about things that are already done like the right kind of fences and hoardings that stay solid?

siddy1972

I would have thought something resembling ice hockey fencing could work- walls rather than railings, a bit taller with a transparent section. Any rider hitting that stuff would glance off rather then the catapult effect we see all to often.
Not a nice for the fans, but rider safety has to come first- they’re being treated like roman gladiators at present.

blazing_saddles

I am amazed by the response of many fans.
Blame the course, blame the barriers, blame the organizers, blame the UCI, talk about modernisation and rider safety, but don't apportion any blame to the rider because he was "only doing what riders have always done and you can't stop top sprinters from doing it..."

Wrong, you can stop riders doing it and we all know how. As DeVlaeminck has suggested:

"Short bans imposed more consistently will be more effective."

After all, what punishment is "relegation to the back of the group," to a sprinter, who only thinks in terms of coming first?

That's why they do it all the time.

zest28

junglist_matty said:

DG only did what most sprinters do all the time, they barge and block one another all the time in bunch sprints to try and protect their position.

What surprises me is the lack of proper safety barriers at sprint finishes.... The usual choice is those metal barriers which are probably worse than if there was nothing there at all. Surely in this day and age, someone could come up with a decent safety barrier that would at least help to soften a sprinters fall. I.e just look at F1 where there's tyre walls to soften impacts after huge gravel pits. Trying to stop sprinters doing what they do (barge for position) is just not going to work, accidents will always happen.

Do you know that moves like this is illegal according to UCI? So the excuse that everybody is doing it is not a valid reason, it is illegal for good reason.

Also, you do not see world class athletes like Lewis Hamilton smashing his competitors into the walls in order to win in Formula 1.

So cyclists like Dylan (who has done this many times in the past) is not a true athlete as he is a cheat who repeatedly puts the lives other competitors in danger and should be kicked out permanently (and this also holds true for other pro cyclists who do this).

This sort behavior (which happens to be also illegal according to UCI) is inexcusable.

zest28

You also don’t shoot people (which is also illegal) because you see other people doing it?

People who commit such offenses are removed from society often permanently for good reason as they are a danger to others.

pblakeney

zest28 said:

Also, you do not see world class athletes like Lewis Hamilton smashing his competitors into the walls in order to win in Formula 1.

Oh yes you do!
Too early for panto?

redvision

Is there a rider penalty point system? If not then the UCI need to implement one similar to f1 - so a rider accumulates points for every infraction of the rules, including dangerous riding/ causing an accident, and when a certain number is hit they are suspended.

It has been pretty successful in f1 and I think, over time, would work in cycling and help to increase fair riding and improve safety.

Pross

zest28 said:

You also don’t shoot people (which is also illegal) because you see other people doing it?

People who commit such offenses are removed from society often permanently for good reason as they are a danger to others.

You seem to have a problem understanding the difference between something be illegal i.e. a criminal act and something being against the rules of a sport so it's hard to take your opinions seriously.

Pross

zest28 said:

junglist_matty said:

DG only did what most sprinters do all the time, they barge and block one another all the time in bunch sprints to try and protect their position.

What surprises me is the lack of proper safety barriers at sprint finishes.... The usual choice is those metal barriers which are probably worse than if there was nothing there at all. Surely in this day and age, someone could come up with a decent safety barrier that would at least help to soften a sprinters fall. I.e just look at F1 where there's tyre walls to soften impacts after huge gravel pits. Trying to stop sprinters doing what they do (barge for position) is just not going to work, accidents will always happen.

Do you know that moves like this is illegal according to UCI? So the excuse that everybody is doing it is not a valid reason, it is illegal for good reason.

Also, you do not see world class athletes like Lewis Hamilton smashing his competitors into the walls in order to win in Formula 1.

So cyclists like Dylan (who has done this many times in the past) is not a true athlete as he is a cheat who repeatedly puts the lives other competitors in danger and should be kicked out permanently (and this also holds true for other pro cyclists who do this).

This sort behavior (which happens to be also illegal according to UCI) is inexcusable.

I don't think many are doing that. It's more a case of why this example of bad riding led to a more severe crash than in all the other examples. We've had examples before where a poor finish layout has contributed to a crash or made the effect worse (Abdu with the giant coke can for example) and officials learned from them and made improvements.

Pross

siddy1972 said:

I would have thought something resembling ice hockey fencing could work- walls rather than railings, a bit taller with a transparent section. Any rider hitting that stuff would glance off rather then the catapult effect we see all to often.
Not a nice for the fans, but rider safety has to come first- they’re being treated like roman gladiators at present.

Well organised events have the rails of a barrier in the finish straight faced with solid advertising hoardings that provide a decent alternative. In most cases a rider hitting the barriers will get stopped and gently deflected in the right direction although they will often still fall as balance is obviously quite precarious on a bike at 30mph plus. It's the same way a motorway safety fence works.

TheBigBean

I'll say it again. Paint a hard shoulder. Job done.

kingstongraham

Yes, there's no way a crash is going to end brilliantly for everyone, but you can reduce the worst case scenario, as well as trying to reduce the number of crashes.

A Cote d'Azur down each side has been mentioned as a possibility, with entering/pushing someone into the blue having the same penalty as pushing into the barriers.

david37

zest28 said:

blazing_saddles said:

zest28 said:

So we got pro cyclists like Dylan Groenewegen who cheats by pushing his opponents into the barriers (this is not the first time he has done it). What is even more crazy, is that other pro cyclists such as Simon Geschke from CCC are attacking the organizers rather than Dylan Groenewegen.

What the hell is wrong with these people? Dylan should be thrown in jail and every single pro cyclist who defends Dylan needs to be banned for life.

What is also disturbing is that Team ineos / sky still employs racists like Moscon who has abused black pro riders.

Luckly, Simon Geschke will be out of job soon hopefully considering that CCC will end their sponsership after 2020.

You are a very disturbed individual.
Seek help.

I suggest you seek help since you are fine with people smashing other people in the barriers at 50 mph in order to win. Fabio could have been killed yesterday with the criminal behavior of Dylan who has done this multiple times in the past.

And if you are also fine that Moscon is still in pro cycling despite being a clear racist and also has a history assaulting other pro cyclists, that says enough about you.

oh god hes one of those cancel cretins

rick_chasey

blazing_saddles said:

I am amazed by the response of many fans.
Blame the course, blame the barriers, blame the organizers, blame the UCI, talk about modernisation and rider safety, but don't apportion any blame to the rider because he was "only doing what riders have always done and you can't stop top sprinters from doing it..."

Wrong, you can stop riders doing it and we all know how. As DeVlaeminck has suggested:

"Short bans imposed more consistently will be more effective."

After all, what punishment is "relegation to the back of the group," to a sprinter, who only thinks in terms of coming first?

That's why they do it all the time.

Honest question is what Groenewegen did really that bad?

I see it happen *a lot*. Most sprints in fact. It’s only that Fabio decided to go round rather than squeeze the brakes.

DQ seems reasonable, no?

blazing_saddles

rick_chasey said:

blazing_saddles said:

I am amazed by the response of many fans.
Blame the course, blame the barriers, blame the organizers, blame the UCI, talk about modernisation and rider safety, but don't apportion any blame to the rider because he was "only doing what riders have always done and you can't stop top sprinters from doing it..."

Wrong, you can stop riders doing it and we all know how. As DeVlaeminck has suggested:

"Short bans imposed more consistently will be more effective."

After all, what punishment is "relegation to the back of the group," to a sprinter, who only thinks in terms of coming first?

That's why they do it all the time.

Honest question is what Groenewegen did really that bad?

I see it happen *a lot*. Most sprints in fact. It’s only that Fabio decided to go round rather than squeeze the brakes.

DQ seems reasonable, no?

Did you read my post?
For someone who for months has been arguing about the need for regular re-evaluation of "historical" acts, you are doing the opposite here.

I haven't got the knives out for Groenewegen.
I am saying it is no longer acceptable to deny rider culpability on the grounds of: " he did nothing wrong because sprinting has always been like that..."
You of all people should recognise the need for change, not just in terms of safety precautions, but in using the actual rules as a deterrent to potentially dangerous acts.

I can't help but think that if this had been Nacer Bouhanni, this debate would have taken a much more straightforward line.