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Jockey wheel replacement

prcodyprcody Posts: 67
in Workshop
I am changing my chain-rings, rear cassette and chain on my Ultegra 6800. Looking at changing the jockey wheels as well and just curios is there much to be gained from using a jockey wheel like the below with more teeth or should I just use the standard 6800 jockey wheels.

https://www.bike-discount.de/en/buy/kcnc-jockey-wheel-system-763161

Would I actually gain anything performance wise or would it be more of a look to have?

Posts

  • bondurantbondurant Posts: 858
    Apparently they will make a modicum of difference, which you will not notice.
  • brundonbianchibrundonbianchi Posts: 689
    They’ll increase chain wrap, which could be advantageous, depending on how you ride.
  • darkhairedlorddarkhairedlord Posts: 7,178
    It'll look different, I wouldn't say better though. You'll probably need a longer chain too.
  • prcodyprcody Posts: 67
    I ordered the standard 6800 wheels. Doubt I would get much more out of the bigger ones seeing as I run a basic enough pair of wheels. I'd be better off spending money on better wheels and getting an improvement there.
  • imposter2.0imposter2.0 Posts: 11,982
    brundonbianchi said:

    They’ll increase chain wrap, which could be advantageous, depending on how you ride.

    In what way would 'chain wrap' ever be advantageous, Nick? Doesn't sound like you understand the term...
  • webboowebboo Posts: 5,241
    Is this a popcorn moment.
  • brundonbianchibrundonbianchi Posts: 689
    edited August 2020
    imposter2.0 said:

    brundonbianchi said:

    They’ll increase chain wrap, which could be advantageous, depending on how you ride.

    In what way would 'chain wrap' ever be advantageous, Nick? Doesn't sound like you understand the term...
    The TGC is increased as well, but here’s a nice little piece that explains the ideas behind oversized jockey wheels
    https://www.velonews.com/gear/tour-de-france-pros-are-using-oversize-rear-derailleur-pulleys-should-you/

    Specifically this bit.

    “Technically, it would. But when you think of how a drivetrain operates — a chain winding its way over chainrings and then around a cassette, and finally, through the serpentine pulley system of a rear derailleur — the more significant cause of friction is actually the angle the chain reaches as it wraps through the rear derailleur.
    So by opening up those angles and making them less sharp, the chain can articulate less than it would when it passes around smaller pulley wheels. Voila! Less friction”

    And particularly the bit that says.
    “ the more significant cause of friction is actually the angle the chain reaches as it wraps through the rear derailleur.”

    I think it’s you that may not understand what chain wrap is, or how it effects efficiency. Have a read and then come back and comment.

    And from another bike forum.
    “Most derailleurs that use oversized pulley wheels are doing so to increase chain wrap with less compromise to ground clearance than a longer cage would have, because most derailleurs that use oversized pulley wheels are Shimano Altus variants”.
  • darkhairedlorddarkhairedlord Posts: 7,178
    brundonbianchi said:



    imposter2.0 said:

    brundonbianchi said:

    They’ll increase chain wrap, which could be advantageous, depending on how you ride.

    In what way would 'chain wrap' ever be advantageous, Nick? Doesn't sound like you understand the term...
    The TGC is increased as well, but here’s a nice little piece that explains the ideas behind oversized jockey wheels
    https://www.velonews.com/gear/tour-de-france-pros-are-using-oversize-rear-derailleur-pulleys-should-you/

    Specifically this bit.

    “Technically, it would. But when you think of how a drivetrain operates — a chain winding its way over chainrings and then around a cassette, and finally, through the serpentine pulley system of a rear derailleur — the more significant cause of friction is actually the angle the chain reaches as it wraps through the rear derailleur.
    So by opening up those angles and making them less sharp, the chain can articulate less than it would when it passes around smaller pulley wheels. Voila! Less friction”

    And particularly the bit that says.
    “ the more significant cause of friction is actually the angle the chain reaches as it wraps through the rear derailleur.”

    I think it’s you that may not understand what chain wrap is, or how it effects efficiency. Have a read and then come back and comment.

    And from another bike forum.
    “Most derailleurs that use oversized pulley wheels are doing so to increase chain wrap with less compromise to ground clearance than a longer cage would have, because most derailleurs that use oversized pulley wheels are Shimano Altus variants”.
    Can we get this reply moved to directory of complete tools?
  • pblakeneypblakeney Posts: 22,372
    edited August 2020
    It explains why a 34 tooth chainring is easier than a 50 tooth chainring.
    Less teeth, less friction, innit. 😉
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • imposter2.0imposter2.0 Posts: 11,982
    webboo said:

    Is this a popcorn moment.

    Every post of milemuncher's is a popcorn monent...
  • imposter2.0imposter2.0 Posts: 11,982
    edited August 2020
    brundonbianchi said:



    I think it’s you that may not understand what chain wrap is, or how it effects efficiency. Have a read and then come back and comment.

    The usual 'copy n paste' nonsense from you, I see. So, two things:

    1 - Can you quantify the 'advantage'? (ideally without resorting to more tedious copy n pasting).

    2 - Specifically, how would any advantage depend on 'how someone rode' ?

    Or, alternatively, you could spare us yet more of your incessant narcissistic drivel by going back to trolling the beginner's section on cyclechat, where you clearly belong.
  • junglist_mattyjunglist_matty Posts: 1,728
    imposter2.0 said:


    The usual 'copy n paste' nonsense from you, I see. So, two things:
    2 - Specifically, how would any advantage depend on 'how someone rode' ?

    Who knows!? Maybe he thinks those who ride at high cadence will see the benefits as the chain runs through the "looser" angles (from the larger wheels) more frequently haha!?
  • First.AspectFirst.Aspect Posts: 11,762
    How many of the people scoffing at "chain wrap" (or however you want to express reduced friction from larger jockey wheels) have shelled out on ceramic bearings or aerodynamic cleats, or some other performance boost of similar magnitude?

    I'm just wondering whether you are having a playground pop against gullibility per se or a specific form of it...
  • pblakeneypblakeney Posts: 22,372
    First.Aspect said:

    How many of the people scoffing at "chain wrap" (or however you want to express reduced friction from larger jockey wheels) have shelled out on ceramic bearings or aerodynamic cleats, or some other performance boost of similar magnitude?

    I'm just wondering whether you are having a playground pop against gullibility per se or a specific form of it...

    Nope. Not me.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • First.AspectFirst.Aspect Posts: 11,762
    pblakeney said:

    First.Aspect said:

    How many of the people scoffing at "chain wrap" (or however you want to express reduced friction from larger jockey wheels) have shelled out on ceramic bearings or aerodynamic cleats, or some other performance boost of similar magnitude?

    I'm just wondering whether you are having a playground pop against gullibility per se or a specific form of it...

    Nope. Not me.
    Don't you even use a dry lube?
  • ballysmateballysmate Posts: 15,903
    Suppliers of equipment for any hobby would soon go bust if it weren't for the gullible.
    Cycling is no different.
  • pblakeneypblakeney Posts: 22,372
    First.Aspect said:

    pblakeney said:

    First.Aspect said:

    How many of the people scoffing at "chain wrap" (or however you want to express reduced friction from larger jockey wheels) have shelled out on ceramic bearings or aerodynamic cleats, or some other performance boost of similar magnitude?

    I'm just wondering whether you are having a playground pop against gullibility per se or a specific form of it...

    Nope. Not me.
    Don't you even use a dry lube?
    Nope.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • First.AspectFirst.Aspect Posts: 11,762
    pblakeney said:

    First.Aspect said:

    pblakeney said:

    First.Aspect said:

    How many of the people scoffing at "chain wrap" (or however you want to express reduced friction from larger jockey wheels) have shelled out on ceramic bearings or aerodynamic cleats, or some other performance boost of similar magnitude?

    I'm just wondering whether you are having a playground pop against gullibility per se or a specific form of it...

    Nope. Not me.
    Don't you even use a dry lube?
    Nope.
    How can you possibly keep up on group rides?
  • pblakeneypblakeney Posts: 22,372
    First.Aspect said:

    pblakeney said:

    First.Aspect said:

    pblakeney said:

    First.Aspect said:

    How many of the people scoffing at "chain wrap" (or however you want to express reduced friction from larger jockey wheels) have shelled out on ceramic bearings or aerodynamic cleats, or some other performance boost of similar magnitude?

    I'm just wondering whether you are having a playground pop against gullibility per se or a specific form of it...

    Nope. Not me.
    Don't you even use a dry lube?
    Nope.
    How can you possibly keep up on group rides?
    Sit on the back, obviously. 😉
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
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