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Wheel/tyre upgrade for weight/rolling

Hi all,

I have a Boardman Pro FS 2016 version, bought in 2018. Its 27.5" wheels, non-boost, tubed. Current tyres are Continental Trail King in 2.2" both ends.

Its served me well, great trail bike. Nothing wrong with it, so I'm thinking whether a wheel and tyre upgrade would shave off some weight and be a worthwhile upgrade. If I'm going to do it, I'd do it all at once - new wheel set, go tubeless, and choose some good rubber. I'd be tempted with something faster rolling on the back.

For it to be worth it I reckon I'll need to save at least 15-20% of the whole bike weight, any less than this and I don't think it will be noticeable really. My bike weighs a total of 14.3kg. Is it feasible to save 2-3kg by changing wheelset, tyres and going tubeless?

Budget around £500.

Thanks
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Posts

  • steve_sordysteve_sordy Posts: 2,311
    I doubt it, maybe if your wheels were carbon fibre. But that would blow your budget.

    If you cruise the internet for wheelsets, they all give you the weight, so you can compare your current weight with them. Don't make the mistake of going too light! Remember what Gary Fisher said (the guy behind the MTB revolution and Trek). He said "light, cheap, strong, pick two!" You have already said cheap, so I'd avoid light if you do any rough trails or are a heavy or aggressive rider.

    Reducing weight is not necessarily the best thing to do, I once paid £600 (and that was in a sale) for a 26" E13 wheelset that weighed 1806 gm for the Shimano XT wheelset (1846 gm) I was getting rid of. The difference was the internal rim width was wider and the wheel was a lot stiffer, the rim was a super light alloy, and the freehub had many more points of engagement. And it had cartridge bearings not the Shimano cup and cone! So, the wheel was more expensive and hardly any lighter at all, but WOW! what a difference on the trail! It was immediately noticeable that it picked up quicker, and went where it was pointed with less effort. This latter point was even more noticeable on rough corners.

    Tyres. The Continental Trail King is a particular favourite of mine, but only if you have the version with the black chilli compound (BCC). If the advert doesn't say BCC, then it doesn't have it! The BCC tyre has that amazing combination of grip, life and reduced drag that many tyre manufacturers find so hard. Amazingly, there are no indicators that I can see on the tyre wall that says "BCC" or similar, so you won't know what your tyre is. Unless of course it has a wire bead, in which case it isn't BCC. Conti make BCC tyres in other tread patterns and you may wish to pursue the RaceKing which is lighter and has a faster rolling pattern. But the grip is not so good as the TK.

    Tubes weigh about 200-300gm depending upon manufacturer, so lets say 250gm. To go tubeless, you will save that per wheel. To that you must add 100gm of sealant. You don't need tubeless tyres (UST or LUST), or even tubeless ready (TLR). All tyres except proper tubeless tyres need sealant to hold air and to stay up. But ALL tyres need sealant to survive a puncture. So you are recommended to add sealant, any latex based sealant is the one I'd go for. If you get the Cont tyres, you might as well get their Conti Revo sealant specially formulated for their rubber.
    Going tubeless will affect your ride in a very good way. Experiment with tyre pressure. Unless you go for a significantly lighter tyre than your existing Conti TK, then you will be able to reduce tyre pressure and gain a lot of extra grip, especially when climbing. And all without any pinch punctures!

    Anyway, tyre weight. You are looking at 150gm ish per wheel right at the rim where it does most good. I read somewhere that losing weight at the rim is where to spend your money because it feels like you have lost 3x as much. That 3x is due to the rolling moment of inertia of your wheel having changed, so acceleration, cornering and braking is improved noticeably. But you very soon get used to it!

    Personally, having actually done what you want to do I would not change the wheelset right away. Instead I would focus on the tyres and go tubeless. The tyres will cost about £48 each. Yes you can get what appears to be the same tyre for less than half the price , but it won't be BCC I would get this:
    https://www.wiggle.co.uk/continental-cross-king-folding-mtb-tyre-protection/?lang=en&curr=GBP&dest=1&sku=100596445&kpid=100596445&utm_source=google&utm_term=&utm_campaign=Shopping+-+All+Products&utm_medium=base&utm_content=mckv|sQn4nWuZw_dc|mcrid|295270531587|mkw||mmt||mrd|100596445uk|mslid||&mkwid=sQn4nWuZw_dc&pcrid=295270531587&prd=100596445uk&pgrid=60973737802&ptaid=pla-522417750384&gclid=Cj0KCQjwirz3BRD_ARIsAImf7LM9HsCseoPllfH_sWB3cdbUHIBYtkie28Yzhcnjc2bj4e7oyh9mAakaAp_AEALw_wcB

    Remember what I said, if it doesn't actually say "black chill compound", then it isn't. It is the reason they cost twice as much.

    Then a pair of tubeless valves, about £12
    Some sealant Conti Revo sealant is about £6 for 240ml, which is enough for two tyres of your size plus some spillage.

    So that is 2 x £48 + £12 + £6 = £114

    Then read up on going tubeless.
    The next bit is optional, spend £47 on an Airshot tubeless tyre inflator. If you are going to go tubeless and stay tubeless, then you will bless the day you bought one of these.
    https://www.tweekscycles.com/uk/airshot-tyre-inflator-aisairshot/?istCompanyId=56f52ebf-49f3-492a-9cbb-cb6ab0fc1bf0&istFeedId=33b89177-5114-4491-9c2a-09a3a7cb23b2&istItemId=wiltaxqpm&istBid=t&gclid=Cj0KCQjwirz3BRD_ARIsAImf7LPENAjXYuhCv2X8zelfhCqxyfZIN_KsSREV0UtLGo_yjDIoaaeT6toaAkkYEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

    If you insist on changing your wheelset straight away...
    So you have now spent £161 of your £500 budget. You have saved £331. That leaves you enough money for a Mavic Crossmax Elite wheelset for less than £300 in the sale. Make sure your bike is suitable for the hub widths (these are boost). The weight at 1630gm looks a bit XC to me, but if that is what you do then they will be perfect.
    https://www.wiggle.co.uk/mavic-crossmax-elite-boost-mtb-wheelset/?lang=en&curr=GBP&dest=1&sku=100423134&kpid=100423134&utm_source=google&utm_term=&utm_campaign=Shopping+-+All+Products&utm_medium=base&utm_content=mckv|s35BMWyZl_dc|mcrid|295270531587|mkw||mmt||mrd|100423134uk|mslid||&mkwid=s35BMWyZl_dc&pcrid=295270531587&prd=100423134uk&pgrid=60973737802&ptaid=pla-576454153327&gclid=Cj0KCQjwirz3BRD_ARIsAImf7LPim4tIQ44cBThTeuajjKkYfUJ7GsfchYWebgWjEBdlJjlY1KgpSVwaAmEGEALw_wcB

    Have fun and let us know what you end up doing and whether it was all worth it.
  • wavey1000wavey1000 Posts: 59
    I am no expert but trying to get your fs boardman down by 2 or 3kg with wheels would be pretty impossible. Trying to get a fs down to 11_ 12kg would be a mean feat.
  • danlightbulbdanlightbulb Posts: 701
    Thanks both.

    Yeah perhaps 2-3kg is too optimistic then, and as you say Steve, maybe saving a few hundred grams at the wheels would in fact be noticeable.

    The current wheelset is Mavic XM319 so only 19mm internal width. I was concerned that I would struggle making this narrow rim tubeless, and its width really limits me to 2.2" width tyres as a maximum. I note alot of the modern wheel sets (including the highly rated Hunt Trail Wide which is the set I was looking at) are 30mm internal width.

    I weighed my front wheel and its 2.2kg all in, including brake disc.
  • danlightbulbdanlightbulb Posts: 701
    edited June 2020
    These are £322 in non-boost size, 26mm width. It doesn't say what size axles they are designed for though. I need 15mm front 12mm rear through axles.
    https://www.wiggle.co.uk/stans-no-tubes-arch-s1-mtb-wheelset

    Or £400 for this one also in non-boost size, 30mm width.
    https://www.wiggle.co.uk/stans-no-tubes-flow-mk3-mtb-wheelset

    I think 26mm width would be enough for what I ride and aiming for 2.3" wide tyres?

    Im also a bit confused what hubs I need. I have SRAM GX 11 speed. Is that SRAM XD hub?
  • steve_sordysteve_sordy Posts: 2,311

    .............The current wheelset is Mavic XM319 so only 19mm internal width. I was concerned that I would struggle making this narrow rim tubeless, and its width really limits me to 2.2" width tyres as a maximum. I note alot of the modern wheel sets (including the highly rated Hunt Trail Wide which is the set I was looking at) are 30mm internal width.

    I weighed my front wheel and its 2.2kg all in, including brake disc.

    Who told you that the tyre width is limited to 2.2"?
    I have just checked on line with WTB and Schwalbe. For a 19mm internal rim width, WTB say that the ideal is 47-52mm for an mtb tyre, but perfectly OK up to 62mm (2.44"). Schwalbe just say 24-63mm and don't differentiate what sort of use the tyre is put to.

    I used to have a Mavic wheelset with 19mm internal rims and I was happy with the Maxxis Ignitor 26 x 2.35", first with tubes and then later tubeless. Once I discovered the Conti TKs on a trip to the Alps, I switched to the TKs 26 x 2.2" an stayed with them for quite a few years.

    Later, as first of all fat tyres came out requiring very wide internal rims, then mid fat, bikes started to come with wider and wider rims. My rim progression went from 17 to 19, then 21, 25 and now 30mm. A 2.4" wide tyre on a 17mm was dangerous, but OK on 19mm. I stuck with the 2.2" TKs through the 19, 21 and 25 era. It was only when my current bike came with 29 x 2.6" that the rim width expanded to 30 mm. As you say, modern rims are wider. That is only because tyres have become wider. The professional riders of only a few years ago didn't have the wide rims of today and they got on perfectly well without them.

    Try going tubeless and with better tyres before you spend the big money on a new wheelset.

    Wheel weight is quoted without tyre, valve or disc, so to compare your current set, you need to either find out by looking it up or to remove the tyre, tube and disc and weigh it.

    PS: Mavic wheelsets are very good, don't ditch it for something inferior. There is more to a wheelset than just the rim width. My Mavic wheelset lasted three years before I even had to change a spoke! No freehub or bearing problems at all. It was still going strong several years later when I lost touch with the guy that bought the wheelset.

    This is useful:
    https://www.wtb.com/pages/tire-rim-fit-chart
  • danlightbulbdanlightbulb Posts: 701
    edited June 2020
    I had seen that chart yes. Limited to was probably the wrong word however i felt that pushing to a higher tyre width on 19mm rims and going tubeless was likely to lead to problems with tyre stability.

    I get what you mean about the wheels. Theres nothing actually wrong with the current set, they are solid and the tyres still have life in them.

    The bike just feels so draggy on the trails.

    I dont know if the xm319 is tubeless ready? Dont want to go ghetto.


    I ran black chilli mountain kings on my old bike for a few years, so know the compound is good. There are so many combinations of tyres I could choose, its hard to know what to get. The trail kings are heavy by comparison, between 900-990g each depending on what website you look at. Its hard to get past the marketing speil because the wiggle site says the trail king is fast rolling, but it certainly doesn't feel it to me.

    Would cross king on the back and mountain king on the front work well? I notice there is quite a difference in range between mountain king and trail king tyres according to conti's website:

    Mountain king:


    Trail king:


    Cross king:


  • danlightbulbdanlightbulb Posts: 701
    edited June 2020
    Just took my front wheel apart.

    Wheel 1.11kg (with brake disc)
    Tyre - 750g (a good chunk lower than it is supposed to be)
    Tube - 240g.

    The rim has standard cloth rim tape so I'll need to change that.

    The Mountain King I'm planning on putting on is 705g. With 100g of sealant that will give me a total front wheel weight of 1.9kg.


    Just ordered this gorilla tape
    https://www.halfords.com/motoring/paints-and-body-repair/adhesives/gorilla-tape-handy-711180.html

    Right one? Rim is 19mm internal, 25mm ext so this tape is 25mm wide.
  • danlightbulbdanlightbulb Posts: 701
    Right Ive ordered everything I need except the tyres now. I just can't decide what to go for.

    At the moment I have Trail King folding (750g) front and rear - non-black chilli. They are exactly 2.2" wide as they should be.

    When I ran Mountain Kings a few years back on my old 26" bike, the 2.2" tyre was exactly 2" wide (Ive just been to the garage to measure it). Im concerned if I go for Mountain King again that I will lose width.

    And Ive no idea about the Cross Kings.

    On the other hand I could go for Schwalbe or Maxxis?

    Too much choice and uncertainty.
  • steve_sordysteve_sordy Posts: 2,311
    I can assure you that a 2.4" tyre will run on a 19mm internal rim without the tyre rolling off on corners. I ran 2.35" Maxxis Igniters for years on a 19mm rim. (OK, it's not 2.4" exactly, but it's only 25 thousandths of an inch smaller on either side).

    I use Gorilla tape to do my rims. When you strip off the old tape make sure that you get rid of the old adhesive if there is any. 25mm wide tape might just do the job OK without running up the sides of the rim wall too far. If it does it will make it harder to get the tyre on. This in turn will make the tyre harder to get off,especially if you have to do it trailside. Be warned that some riders that use Gorilla tape report that once on, it is very difficult to remove. I've not had that problem yet. But the Sherwood Pines Bike shop recommends its use.

    You ought to start a separate thread on tyre choice. State where you ride, what wheel dia, what rims, what sort of rider you are (fast, aggressive cornering and big jumps, or a long distance cruiser over mostly smooth (ish) trails. What you a re looking for, light or robust, grippy or smooth rolling etc.
  • danlightbulbdanlightbulb Posts: 701
    Thanks Steve. Ive been out to Halfords and picked up the Stans fluid and some gorrila tape. The tubeless valves are sitting in my chain reaction basket ready to order with the tyres once I decide.

    Re the tyres, its such a common issue I don't really want to create yet another thread on the subject. Like almost everyone, i need a tyre that is balanced with a good mix of all those properties for general UK trail centre riding.

    I mostly ride at Cannock chase, which is a mix of medium packed gravel with largish pebbles in, with some rock gardens. If its wet, the pebbles can be slippy and some sections are prone to storing a bit of mud. If its very dry, it can be loose and dusty especially in the corners.

    I also travel occasionally to North Wales and ride at Llandegla and occasionally the Marin, and Penmachno. Llandegla has quite an aggressive rocky section at the top but then turns into smooth dirt. But its quite far away so only go a few times a year.

    My current tyres handle Cannock just fine, they just feel draggy - this is the problem I started with. But if I'm changing tyres then that brings up a whole load of other choice, all of which would probably be fine but there is no point spending £100 to swap rubber and getting no improvement.

    I've just been to Halfords and I measured the crossking 2.3". Its about right. But the Mountain King (albeit cheap wired version) they had in was on the narrow side only coming in at just over 2.1" in 2.3" size.

    The Cross King does look a good tyre but its less agressive tread makes me think i might lose some grip on the trails and will it handle the sharp rocky bits.
  • danlightbulbdanlightbulb Posts: 701
    There's alot of love for Maxxis tyres (particularly High Roller II, DHF and DHR) on a facebook group I'm on. However their compounds confuse me (3C, DD, TR, WT, EXO). Plus they are quite a bit heavier than my current tyres are.

    It seems a bit simpler with Conti. It's black chilli protection, and that's it.

    But even in Conti I could go for any of the following combos:
    * Trail King front & rear
    * Trail king front / mountain king rear
    * Mountain king front & rear
    * Mountain king front / cross king rear

    Trail king is available in 2.2" (795g) and 2.4" (905g).
    Mountain King 2.3" is 705g.
    Cross king 2.3" is also 705g.

    A Minion DHF (2.3" 3C MAXX TERRA) is 1.08kg!
    A Minion DHRII also just over 1kg.

    That is heavy.
  • JBAJBA Posts: 2,790
    I have been running Schwalbe Nobby Nic tyres set up tubeless on my Trance since 2016 with no problems. An Evolution 2.35" snake skin Speedgrip comes in at 720g.
    I have ridden at Cwmcarn, FoD, Ashton Court, Cannock, Llandegla as well as my local trails, canal paths and road and they have been fine.
    “Life has been unfaithful
    And it all promised so so much”

    Giant Trance 2 27.5 2016 ¦ Sonder Broken Road 2021¦ Giant Revolt Advanced 2 2019 ¦ Giant Anthem 3 2015 ¦ Specialized Myka Comp FSR 2009
  • danlightbulbdanlightbulb Posts: 701
    Thanks JBA. Another tyre that's definitely an option yes. Its very similar in tread pattern to the previous version Mountain King and reasonably priced.

    I think where I am is the following:
    * Any of these tyres would be fine for reasonably quick riding at trail centres
    * But so are my current ones...
    * So what's the point spending £100 on new ones?
    * What am I getting for the money?

    The Trail King are at the more aggressive end of trail, but they drag a little. They will be more rugged on the rockier trails.

    The Mountain King/Nobby Nic will be somewhere in the middle. I would probably gain some speed but would I lose some aggressive cornering grip?

    I could possibly go Hans Dampf front and nobby nic rear?

    I just don't know.

    Maybe a Trail King front and Mountain King rear would be good, but then I think a 2.4" Trail King is going to be quite heavy and I wouldn't want to put a 2.2" trail king front and a 2.3" Mountain King rear.
  • danlightbulbdanlightbulb Posts: 701
    edited June 2020
    I've had all my wheels apart and weighed them now.

    Front: 0.95kg
    Rear: 1.12kg
    Total: 2.07kg

    The Hunt Trail Wide set is 1.76kg so I'd be saving 310g, and getting a wider wheel as well.

    There doesn't seem to be alot of saving to be had with tyres themselves, depending what I choose I could be getting heavier ones (eg the Maxxis), but going tubeless would save me about 300g (-500g for tubes, +200g for sealant).

    So I'm on to save about 0.6kg in total. 4% of total bike weight. Or 300g if I just went tubeless.

    Its not much is it.
  • danlightbulbdanlightbulb Posts: 701
    edited June 2020
    Well after all the faffing I made a choice.

    Alot of people on the facebook group were riding Maxxis, and I've never tried them. My mate rides a Minion SS on the rear as well.

    So I've gone for a 2.3" DHF and a 2.3" Minion SS.

    If we get a reasonable dry summer then I think the SS should be fine to ride and I can then get another more capable rear tyre later for the autumn/winter months.

    I was torn between this combo and the Trail King 2.4 / Cross King 2.3 combo.


    Its still not ideally what I wanted though. I feel forced into giving up downhill traction to try and improve my climbing.

  • steve_sordysteve_sordy Posts: 2,311
    I have ridden all those places with Conti TK 2.2" front and rear. I have ridden them on 26" wheels and 27.5" wheels and I found them a superb all year round tyre. Not as good as mud tyre in the mud, but what trail is mud all the way? I found them to be particularly good on wet rock and wet roots. I had absolute confidence in them and that enabled me to attack obstacles with more elan (and success!)

    I can't recall whether you said your existing TKs are the black chilli compound or not, but it does make a difference.

    You have probably found this:
    https://conti-tyres.co.uk/mtb

    But have you found this, all about the BCC and its impact on tyres?
    https://conti-tyres.co.uk/technical/black-chili-compound

    When I first came across the TKs I was lent a pair of 2.4" for a trip to the Alps. They were great, but heavy. OK for lift assited biking but not for my usual riding. When I got back, I experimented by swapping out the rear for my usual tyre (Maxxis Igniter 2.35") and I was no different down my favourite test track. So I bought 2.2" TK and retested, swapping out front and rear with the Igniters. The TK 2.2 on the front was a definite improvement. The plan was to go with that combo and use up the Igniters. But I became impatient and bought another TK 2.2" and sold the Igniter 2.35". The TK 2.2 front and rear was the best combo. I had the grip and the speed without the weight of the 2.4" TK, which is a beast of a tyre!

    When you boil it down, you are facing the exact same dilemma facing all cyclists. You want maximum grip but you don't want them to drag, oh and you want them to last too! You will not get that combination! What mostly gives the tyre the grip is the soft compound and this is what makes them draggy. If you go for a smaller knob pattern, you lose traction and cornering no matter what the compound. You have to decide what is more important to you, grip or speed. They are at opposite ends of the continuum.

    Where I ride, which is zero commuting, as little tarmac & towpath as I can get away with, and is mostly in the woods and hills.
    When I ride, which is all year round; I don't mind snow but I prefer not to ride in sub zero conditions. Apart from that, snow, rain or sun, mud or dust, I'll be out there.
    What I ride these days is mostly trail centres of various kinds. In which case I want grip first of all, the last thing I want is to crash out at the first corner. I still have to get up the hills, so I don't want the super sticky tyres. The Conti BCC is not in that super sticky class, it's more like the Maxxis "Maxx Terra", as opposed to the "Maxx Grip".

    For years I rode the Conti TK in BCC format, tubeless. I would be using them now, but they don't make the tyre size I want which is 29 x 2.5 or 2.6. What I have right now is the Maxxis High Roller II Maxx Terra, 3C, WT, EXO, TR 29 x 2.5" front and rear.
    Maxx Terra describes the overall softness and grippiness of the tyre and as I said before, it's one down from the Maxx Grip, which is a "no compromise" grippy tyre.
    3C means triple compound. The tyre body is a hard compound, the centre knobs are softer and the corner knobs are softer still.
    WT means wide tyre. It is simply that the tyre is designed to be at its best on the wider rims being sold today. It doesn't mean it won't work at all on narrower rims.
    EXO offers more sidewall protection from cuts and other damage.
    TR means tubeless ready and is suitable for going tubeless. It indicates that the tyre walls are less porous to air than non-TR tyres. But latex sealant still seals the non-TR tyre wall, it just takes longer.
    What my bike came with was Maxxis Rekon 29 x 2.6" 3C EXO Maxx Terra TR on the front and a 1C on the rear. They were a good tyre when it was dry and firm, or on tarmac & towpaths, but offered little grip on the trails. The rear would not get me out of damp bombholes and the front was sliding on corners. I could not ride across the face of a steep sloping hill in dry conditions without the rear sliding down the hill. So I changed to the HR IIs. The HR IIs are slightly draggier, but I very much prefer them as they inspire confidence and get me where I want to go.

    You have to choose the tyre for what you ride and how you ride.
  • danlightbulbdanlightbulb Posts: 701
    My current 2.2" TKs are not black chilli - they are the OEM versions that came with the bike. But what surprised me is when I weighed them - only 750g each. This was less than all the websites say they should be.

    So that then gave me a dilemma because the black chilli versions of the 2.2" are 795g each - heavier! If I buy the exact same tyre but just in black chilli version, I'm not gaining much in my eyes.

    Yes otherwise they are very good trail tyres but I am noticing significant drag on the climbs and flats with this bike & these current tyres.

    I'd have thought the Mountain Kings (MKs) would have been a better compromise but write ups were poor and no-one seems to be using them.

    Everyone I ask (except here) seems to be running super aggressive tyres for trail riding.

    I don't really understand why enduro riders want super aggressive tyres because they have alot of interstage riding to contend with.

    The main problem is misinformation. There is no universal rolling resistance scale, and when you look on the websites of Maxxis or Conti, their 'use' scales don't match what reviewers are saying. For example, TK no good in the wet, according to Conti. MK is best all round, from dry to wet to a bit of mud, according to Conti. But reviews don't match this.

    What I want is a trail tyre that can handle the sharp rocks I occasionally visit, loose pebbly corners in the dry, splashy braking puddles and slippery rock gardens in the wet. But one which doesn't feel like its dragging me back on climbs and flat singletrack.


    The strange thing is people say they have no problems on the climbs or whatever, but then I find out they are running 2.5" wide 1.2kg tyres! Those two things don't go together very well so I don't know who to believe.
  • steve_sordysteve_sordy Posts: 2,311
    One reason that your existing TK tyres "weigh less than all the websites say they should be" is wear! They are about two years old and there will be less tread on them now. Whether that accounts for the weight difference I cannot say. But tyres are moulded not machined and the weight will vary anyway.

    Conti say that the BCC reduces rolling resistance by 25%. I'm sure you would notice that.
  • danlightbulbdanlightbulb Posts: 701
    Maybe. Its tough to know without buying them. Cant really be spending £50 a pop trying 5-10 different tyre pairs.

    Actually come to think of it, the TK in 2.2 was the most expensive on my list - £56 each. Most of the Maxxis and Conti's had been discounted quite a bit, even the 2.4 TKs, but not those ones.

    I got the two Maxxis for £74.

    I think the TK is a very good tyre, and yeah I agree with you it would be better in BCC. But my current version of that tyre is draggy and I notice it, so its a risk to spend the money.

    When I had MK's previously (26" hard tail XC oriented bike) they were good tyres but I got punctures a few times on the rocky sections. This was 5 years ago though.

    All I can do now is try the Maxxis. If the Minion SS rear turns out to be too slippy I'll have to then buy either a DHR or HR2.

    The review sites are not alot of help. They are either enduro or XC oriented I find. The enduro sites I saw were recommened Der Kaiser up front and TK on the rear. There's a hell of alot of weight in that combo.

  • steve_sordysteve_sordy Posts: 2,311
    You ought to try some of the emtb websites, weight appears to be a total non issue!
    It is still an issue for me, but less of one.
  • danlightbulbdanlightbulb Posts: 701
    Ah well the rise of eMTB makes it not important I guess. Easy to run 1.2kg tyres when you have electric power behind you. Its quite annoying at times on the trails have the ebikes come up behind you at speed on a narrow climb. I'd only look at an ebike if I was older and couldn't get round on my own steam any more. i see alot of younger people on them though.
  • steve_sordysteve_sordy Posts: 2,311
    I started with knee problems six years ago (turned out to be arthritis), before that I felt like superman! Slowly I dropped down the pack until I was always last up the hill. Then I stopped riding with my mates in the hills because I just could not keep up. I went 12-speed, but even with a massive 50t gear that the back, I still had to put a 30t on the front just to climb out of bombholes! Gradually the distance I could ride in one go declined until I could only manage 10 miles and with three days off afterwards!
    So at the back end of 2018 I started testing emtbs and rode eight different ones. I did not expect the motors to be so different! I really liked the 7th one I tested; it was the first emtb where I just forgot I was o an emtb and just had fun! I opted for the 29er carbon version and took delivery in Jan'19. What a brilliant buy that was; I wish I'd done it years before and saved all the pain.
    This is the beast!


    I have since converted the Rockshox Revelation RC fork to a Pike Ultimate, changed the tyres (see previous) and I'm in process of experimenting with the shock. It came without tokens and I added one on Sunday and rode it for the first time yesterday, it's looking promising. Next step will be to explore a big increase in the negative volume by exchanging the air can for a MegNeg. I love this sort of stuff. :)

    Apart from the assistance to my knees, which is liberating, I find that emtbs are over- rated. You don't get any assistance beyond 15.5mph, after that you are on a big heavy bike with big heavy tyres. The motor provides no assistance when descending, unless you want to accelerate up to the cutoff speed. The battery choice and how you ride can give you "range anxiety", ie do I have enough juice left to get me home?
    The bikes are HEAVY. Mine is quite light at 20.4kg, many weigh over 24kg and some over 25kg (yes 55lbs!!!!). Getting them over a five barred gate or a style requires technique and strength. Getting them up on to a roof rack is do-able, but not if you have injured one arm during the ride. Most emtbrs go for a tow bar rack (add together cost of a rack and a tow bar - ouch!). With those sort of weights, it seems picky to be worrying about saving 45gms (1-1/2 ounces) on a component.

    By the way I am not overall negative on emtbs. They are a life changer and so much fun! <3
  • steve_sordysteve_sordy Posts: 2,311
    PS: Guys that expect slower riders to give way without as much as an "excuse me" have been around since the dawn of bicycling. They were 4rses then and are 4rses now. It is just that a the power of"e" makes them more noticeable. People don't become 4rses just because they bought an emtb, they already were an 4rse! :s
  • danlightbulbdanlightbulb Posts: 701
    Yeah I think there are scenarios where ebikes are warranted, such as for health or age related issues certainly. Didn't realise how heavy they were though - wow.

    Im probably making a mountain out of a molehill regarding tyres. Its just there is too much choice which in some circumstances is good but in others not. Its mattering more recently because I'm faster than I used to be on the FS compared to the old HT.

  • JBAJBA Posts: 2,790
    You are overthinking things, @danlightbulb.
    You can have a tyre with very low rolling resistance or a tyre with superb grip. You can't have both. In MTBing tyres are always a compromise.
    Put your new Maxxis tyres on, ride your bike and stop worrying. :)
    “Life has been unfaithful
    And it all promised so so much”

    Giant Trance 2 27.5 2016 ¦ Sonder Broken Road 2021¦ Giant Revolt Advanced 2 2019 ¦ Giant Anthem 3 2015 ¦ Specialized Myka Comp FSR 2009
  • danlightbulbdanlightbulb Posts: 701
    I'm regretting the choice a bit now. Maybe should have just gone for black chilli trail kings and put up with being a bit slow on the climbs.

  • steve_sordysteve_sordy Posts: 2,311
    Well I put a lot of effort into trying to persuade you to go with the TKs. Maybe I tried too hard and it was counter productive? :*
  • danlightbulbdanlightbulb Posts: 701

    Well I put a lot of effort into trying to persuade you to go with the TKs. Maybe I tried too hard and it was counter productive? :*

    No it wasn't that, it was because I already had TKs (albeit not BCC), and if I was spending some money I wanted to see something different for it I guess. Plus concerns about sizing and weight of the TKs. Oh and price - £56 each compared to £34/£39 I have paid for these two Maxxis.

    Anyway they have arrived today so now to try and get tubeless!

    The first thing I can tell you is that according to Maxxis website, the DHF was supposed to weigh 825g - it actually weighs 895g.

    The Minion SS rear is supposed to weigh 765g - it actually weighs 785g.

  • danlightbulbdanlightbulb Posts: 701
    Sorry for running commentary lol.

    On a test inflation after adding gorilla tape, front tyre just inflated immediately tubeless, no sealant at all added yet. Bodes well.
  • danlightbulbdanlightbulb Posts: 701
    All done! It was quite easy to mount the tyres really. The rear was more tricky than the front, had to take the valve core out to get more air volume moving but it worked ok. Then once both tyres were seated I added the sealant through the valve hole with a syringe. Now will leave at 30psi for a few hours and see if they hold pressure, fingers crossed.

    I've hardly saved any weight at all though. About 150g in total.
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