Grand Prix 5000 tyres so hard to get over the rim

dazz_ni45 · June 2020

I had them fitted to a set of wheels I bought. The wheelset in question are notoriously difficult to fit clincher tyres too. I took the GP5000's off last night and fitted them to a set of Rovals. I was expecting it to be difficult, but they went on using my thumbs only so the other rims had obviously stretched them a little.

I would say after the initial struggle of fitting them when new, they wouldn't be as difficult to refit in the case of a puncture

pblakeney · June 2020

When fitting new tyres I have developed a strategy that if they are difficult to put on then I do so multiple times in the comfort of my house to break them in.
Seems to work.

thecycleclinic · June 2020

Why don't I have trouble. I mount them by hand to my wheels. Maybe all these complaints are because of skill level. Its not the tyre or the rim often. Many shop mechanics have trouble. But when you watch how they are mounting you can see why they are having trouble.

One can learn by doing only though if you remain open minded to improving your skill level. Many just blame the tyre or the rim and they never improve there skills.

pblakeney · June 2020

thecycleclinic said:
Why don't I have trouble. I mount them by hand to my wheels. Maybe all these complaints are because of skill level. Its not the tyre or the rim often. Many shop mechanics have trouble. But when you watch how they are mounting you can see why they are having trouble.

One can learn by doing only though if you remain open minded to improving your skill level. Many just blame the tyre or the rim and they never improve there skills.

Trust me, it is an issue. Some tyres* go onto some rims so easy that I worried about the integrity. Some tyres* needed levers the first time. Same fitter, same technique.
It might be a tolerance issue, a design issue, or a material issue, but it is an issue.

* Different makes of tyres on different makes of rims. A specific memory of difficulty was Bontrager Hardcase onto Campagnolo Scirocco. I think an easy one was Conti 4Seasons onto Mavic Open Pro.

PMark · June 2020

I suspect a lot of the issues people are facing are more rim issues. I have 2 wheel sets, one is tubeless compatible and the other isn't. The tubeless compatible ones are a lot harder to get the tyres on/off. For the non-tubeless ones, I can often get the same tyre on with my hands.

thepeopleschamp · June 2020

Last two posts some this up for me, one saying conti 4seasons are easy and the other saying tubeless rims are harder.

I've never had an issue with 4seasons on multiple rims but just got a new tubeless compatible set and I could have cried trying to get them on. That last section was murder, no amount of brute force or tyre lever would do. I had to take a break mid job to get my strength back. Finally got there after much cursing and took a good 15mins. On other rims I can do it in 1.

daniel_b · June 2020

I have fitted Marathon plus tyres before without levers, these were on the Kona cargo bike.

I recently fitted a pair of 25mm GP5000 tyres to some Mavic Ksyrium Exalith wheels.
I couldn't get them on solely by hand, and had to resort to levers towards the end, but managed to roll the last bit on using palms.

They didn't strike me as especially difficult, nor easy, somewhere in the middle.

I can't recall how tricky fitting GP4000s had been in comparison.

As long as you are careful with levers, I don't think it causes an issue.

Kaiser Sose · June 2020

thecycleclinic said:
Why don't I have trouble. I mount them by hand to my wheels. Maybe all these complaints are because of skill level. Its not the tyre or the rim often. Many shop mechanics have trouble. But when you watch how they are mounting you can see why they are having trouble.

One can learn by doing only though if you remain open minded to improving your skill level. Many just blame the tyre or the rim and they never improve there skills.

I followed all the videos and tips. I simply cannot get the tyre over the rim on the front wheel* without tyre levers despite this. I can just about (with lots of swearing and cursing) get the tyre over the rear without tools.

*To repeat my wheel set is Mavic Ksyrium Elite

Kaiser Sose · June 2020

thepeopleschamp said:
Last two posts some this up for me, one saying conti 4seasons are easy and the other saying tubeless rims are harder.

I've never had an issue with 4seasons on multiple rims but just got a new tubeless compatible set and I could have cried trying to get them on. That last section was murder, no amount of brute force or tyre lever would do. I had to take a break mid job to get my strength back. Finally got there after much cursing and took a good 15mins. On other rims I can do it in 1.

...and the worry is then what do you do if you get a flat? If you've got an understanding missus or mate that can rescue you then fair enough but that would get irritating to that person if it happened often and in my mind, other than a serious mechanical, you should be able to get yourself back on the road again without resorting to that.

The worry about being able to get the tyre back on at the side of the road would spoil cycling for me. That is why despite the difficulty I have taken the tyres on and off several times to practise what I'd do if [when] I get a roadside flat. I now feel that I can do it but it doesn't change the fact that this tyre/wheel combo is the hardest I've ever had.

johnnyfartpants · June 2020

Always found Conti tyres to be the most difficult to mount up, on various rims. I don't use 'em anymore and have moved to Specialized or Vredestein the last 5+ years, so much easier.

ibr17xvii · June 2020

thecycleclinic said:
Why don't I have trouble. I mount them by hand to my wheels. Maybe all these complaints are because of skill level. Its not the tyre or the rim often. Many shop mechanics have trouble. But when you watch how they are mounting you can see why they are having trouble.

One can learn by doing only though if you remain open minded to improving your skill level. Many just blame the tyre or the rim and they never improve there skills.

Perhaps you can share your skills with us then?

ibr17xvii · June 2020

johnnyfartpants said:
Always found Conti tyres to be the most difficult to mount up, on various rims. I don't use 'em anymore and have moved to Specialized or Vredestein the last 5+ years, so much easier.

When my 4000's are ready for the bin I think I'll be looking for alternatives judging by this thread.

lettingthedaysgoby · June 2020

ibr17xvii said:

When my 4000's are ready for the bin I think I'll be looking for alternatives judging by this thread.

It really is technique most of the time. I struggled to get a pair of 5000's onto my new wheels for a couple of hours, then was so annoyed I gave up and ended up taking them round to my pro mechanic mate. He got each one on without using levers in around 30 seconds flat without breaking a sweat. And now he's shown me how, I can do that too.

Practice practice practice...

shortfall · June 2020

ibr17xvii said:

thecycleclinic said:
Why don't I have trouble. I mount them by hand to my wheels. Maybe all these complaints are because of skill level. Its not the tyre or the rim often. Many shop mechanics have trouble. But when you watch how they are mounting you can see why they are having trouble.

One can learn by doing only though if you remain open minded to improving your skill level. Many just blame the tyre or the rim and they never improve there skills.

Perhaps you can share your skills with us then?

He has on his website.

shortfall · June 2020

shortfall said:

ibr17xvii said:

thecycleclinic said:
Why don't I have trouble. I mount them by hand to my wheels. Maybe all these complaints are because of skill level. Its not the tyre or the rim often. Many shop mechanics have trouble. But when you watch how they are mounting you can see why they are having trouble.

One can learn by doing only though if you remain open minded to improving your skill level. Many just blame the tyre or the rim and they never improve there skills.

Perhaps you can share your skills with us then?
He has on his website.

And here

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Mq_7EFJDwfo

He makes it look easy but then he would as he does it for a living. Getting the beads in the well is key as is chasing the slack round.

ibr17xvii · June 2020

shortfall said:

shortfall said:

ibr17xvii said:

thecycleclinic said:
Why don't I have trouble. I mount them by hand to my wheels. Maybe all these complaints are because of skill level. Its not the tyre or the rim often. Many shop mechanics have trouble. But when you watch how they are mounting you can see why they are having trouble.

One can learn by doing only though if you remain open minded to improving your skill level. Many just blame the tyre or the rim and they never improve there skills.

Perhaps you can share your skills with us then?
He has on his website.
And here https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Mq_7EFJDwfo

He makes it look easy but then he would as he does it for a living. Getting the beads in the well is key as is chasing the slack round.

Piece of cake!

junglist_matty · June 2020

They are not easy, but if you do it right it's not hard, you should never pinch a tube getting a tyre on, if you do, you're doing it wrong and makes getting tight tyres on very hard! And you should never need levers to get a tyre on.

You need to put a tiny bit of air in the tube, then seat the tyre most of the way round. Likelihood is the last bit of tyre now has inner tube squashed between rim and tyre, so trying to get it on (esp with levers) 2ill punch flat, you need to now start unseating the tyre (undo your work so far) so you seat the last bit of tyre and get the tube out the way.... Now as you seat the rest of the tyre your tube should be well out the way and won't pinch flat or make it impossible to get the tyre seated. Also deflate the tube before you seat the final bit of tyre

alex222 · June 2020

Interesting as I have always found my GP5000s easy to mount. Must be my wheel tyre combination.

bompington · June 2020

I can appreciate that there are potential advantages in not using tyre levers, but it still seems a bit odd to me complaining that you can't get tyres on when you haven't tried....

pinno · June 2020

pblakeney said:

thecycleclinic said:
Why don't I have trouble. I mount them by hand to my wheels. Maybe all these complaints are because of skill level. Its not the tyre or the rim often. Many shop mechanics have trouble. But when you watch how they are mounting you can see why they are having trouble.

One can learn by doing only though if you remain open minded to improving your skill level. Many just blame the tyre or the rim and they never improve there skills.

Trust me, it is an issue. Some tyres* go onto some rims so easy that I worried about the integrity. Some tyres* needed levers the first time. Same fitter, same technique.
It might be a tolerance issue, a design issue, or a material issue, but it is an issue.

* Different makes of tyres on different makes of rims. A specific memory of difficulty was Bontrager Hardcase onto Campagnolo Scirocco. I think an easy one was Conti 4Seasons onto Mavic Open Pro.

Ditto - Michelin Pro 4's on Campag Eurus. Pig, absolute pig.
Gave up on them bacause although they are a lovely tyre (coupled with latex inner tubes), they're soft, not much mileage out of them and all you had to do was fart and they would puncture.
I'm now on Vittoria's (Roubaix winter, Corsa summer), 2 punctures in 3 seasons, which isn't bad though they don't roll as nicely as the Michelin's.
Most tyres I can get on by hand but surely given tolerances between rims and tyres, sometimes you get a really tight fit.
I've heard other say that Campag and Fulcrum rims can be that little bit 'big'.
Even the Cycling weekly review said the GP5000's can be hard to fit.

No idea where to go next though. GP5000's or Vittoria Corsa Control G+ Isotech...?

junglist_matty · June 2020

pinno said:
No idea where to go next though. GP5000's or Vittoria Corsa Control G+ Isotech...?

Go Tubeless

Kaiser Sose · June 2020

I ordered a Crank Brothers lever tool and I will report how I get on with it when it arrives.
I have fitted tyres literally thousands of times guys over 33 years of road cycling - this is not new to me. I know all about the well and getting the bead into there to help get the last bit over the rim. Despite all that, I still cannot get GP5000 on my Kysrium Elite rims by hand alone.

pinno · June 2020

junglist_matty said:

pinno said:
No idea where to go next though. GP5000's or Vittoria Corsa Control G+ Isotech...?
Go Tubeless

I could. All my wheelsets are tubeless compatible.
It's taking that plunge innit?

pblakeney · June 2020

pinno said:

pblakeney said:

thecycleclinic said:
Why don't I have trouble. I mount them by hand to my wheels. Maybe all these complaints are because of skill level. Its not the tyre or the rim often. Many shop mechanics have trouble. But when you watch how they are mounting you can see why they are having trouble.

One can learn by doing only though if you remain open minded to improving your skill level. Many just blame the tyre or the rim and they never improve there skills.

Trust me, it is an issue. Some tyres* go onto some rims so easy that I worried about the integrity. Some tyres* needed levers the first time. Same fitter, same technique.
It might be a tolerance issue, a design issue, or a material issue, but it is an issue.

* Different makes of tyres on different makes of rims. A specific memory of difficulty was Bontrager Hardcase onto Campagnolo Scirocco. I think an easy one was Conti 4Seasons onto Mavic Open Pro.
Ditto - Michelin Pro 4's on Campag Eurus. Pig, absolute pig.
Gave up on them bacause although they are a lovely tyre (coupled with latex inner tubes), they're soft, not much mileage out of them and all you had to do was fart and they would puncture.
I'm now on Vittoria's (Roubaix winter, Corsa summer), 2 punctures in 3 seasons, which isn't bad though they don't roll as nicely as the Michelin's.
Most tyres I can get on by hand but surely given tolerances between rims and tyres, sometimes you get a really tight fit.
I've heard other say that Campag and Fulcrum rims can be that little bit 'big'.
Even the Cycling weekly review said the GP5000's can be hard to fit.

No idea where to go next though. GP5000's or Vittoria Corsa Control G+ Isotech...?

I have experience of Vittoria Pave on Campag rims, should be comparable.
A pig to put on initially but ease off after 3 goes. I’d recommend doing this in the comfort of your house before your first ride.

pinno · June 2020

pblakeney said:

pinno said:

pblakeney said:

thecycleclinic said:
Why don't I have trouble. I mount them by hand to my wheels. Maybe all these complaints are because of skill level. Its not the tyre or the rim often. Many shop mechanics have trouble. But when you watch how they are mounting you can see why they are having trouble.

One can learn by doing only though if you remain open minded to improving your skill level. Many just blame the tyre or the rim and they never improve there skills.

Trust me, it is an issue. Some tyres* go onto some rims so easy that I worried about the integrity. Some tyres* needed levers the first time. Same fitter, same technique.
It might be a tolerance issue, a design issue, or a material issue, but it is an issue.

* Different makes of tyres on different makes of rims. A specific memory of difficulty was Bontrager Hardcase onto Campagnolo Scirocco. I think an easy one was Conti 4Seasons onto Mavic Open Pro.
Ditto - Michelin Pro 4's on Campag Eurus. Pig, absolute pig.
Gave up on them bacause although they are a lovely tyre (coupled with latex inner tubes), they're soft, not much mileage out of them and all you had to do was fart and they would puncture.
I'm now on Vittoria's (Roubaix winter, Corsa summer), 2 punctures in 3 seasons, which isn't bad though they don't roll as nicely as the Michelin's.
Most tyres I can get on by hand but surely given tolerances between rims and tyres, sometimes you get a really tight fit.
I've heard other say that Campag and Fulcrum rims can be that little bit 'big'.
Even the Cycling weekly review said the GP5000's can be hard to fit.

No idea where to go next though. GP5000's or Vittoria Corsa Control G+ Isotech...?
I have experience of Vittoria Pave on Campag rims, should be comparable.
A pig to put on initially but ease off after 3 goes. I’d recommend doing this in the comfort of your house before your first ride.

Yep - first 2 go's were a pain.
Snapped my lovely recycled milk bottle Pedro's tyre levers.
[Aaah that's them - I have Pave's, not Roubaix. Logo's are gone].

mr.b-campag · June 2020

Honestly buy some of these, I'm surprised they are not much more popular:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Kool-Stop-Tyre-Mate-Remove-Tyres-Easily-From-Deep-Rims-On-Bicycles-Bikes-Cycle/253370855723?hash=item3afe14712b:g:WfAAAOSw8UZaKnd~

And no I'm not in any way related to that company or anyone else in the cycle trade for that matter. Look on the 'bay at the American sellers to see the reviews.

Seriously this product is a game changer, wouldn't be without mine.

pblakeney · June 2020

I be seeing sharp bits!

pinno · June 2020

mr.b-campag said:
Honestly buy some of these, I'm surprised they are not much more popular:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Kool-Stop-Tyre-Mate-Remove-Tyres-Easily-From-Deep-Rims-On-Bicycles-Bikes-Cycle/253370855723?hash=item3afe14712b:g:WfAAAOSw8UZaKnd~

And no I'm not in any way related to that company or anyone else in the cycle trade for that matter. Look on the 'bay at the American sellers to see the reviews.

Seriously this product is a game changer, wouldn't be without mine.

Same idea as the VAR levers on p1 of this thread.

Ben6899 · June 2020

I'll get involved. A month ago, I fitted some brand new 23mm GP5000 to a pair of carbon rims with tubeless tape, tubes and 19mm internal width. They were a swine to get on. A SWINE. Haven't ridden them yet.

On another bike, I had some handbuilts on Ambrosio 15mm internal width rims, normal tape, tubes and some 25mm Vittoria Corsas. They went on extremely easily, if I recall correctly.

This morning, I swapped types between the bikes. Used a lever to start getting the bead off and then unpeeled with thumbs and fingers - for both tyres/rims.

The GP5000 went onto the Ambrosio rims easily and the same can be said for the Vittoria Corsas onto the carbon rims. No levers, no swearing, just some feeding of the slack technique on the carbon/Vittoria combination. But I had all four tyres swapped over and inflated within 30/40mins and I wasn't particularly rushing.

Reassuring because I did this simply so I don't have any prolonged periods sat changing a tube in the coming months.

Moral of this story repeats what's been said already: there's lots to be said for technique, but also some combinations are just really difficult (and some are really easy).

N0bodyOfTheGoat · June 2020

After seeing this thread revived again today, I finally decided to attempt to fit the 23mm front to my 622-17 Hunt Aero Disc Light front, before I head out for a pootle in the sauna (so I go quicker for less effort, in theory

)...

From starting with inflated ~75PSI tube inside 28mm https://www.merlincycles.com/vittoria-rubino-pro-control-g-isotech-folding-road-tyre-700c-87393.html , it took ~14mins to switch over to the 23mm GP5000 and a Supersonic tube inflated to ~95PSI. Very tight for final ~12" of bead, but after one effort of "slack push" from opposite side, my quite feable thumbs just about did the section in one go.

So much smoother transition from the Hunt rim to the tyre sidewall, measures ~24mm tyre width, it looks so much smaller than the 28mm GP4000S II on the Fulcrum Racingsport 77DB rear (~31mm wide tyre).

Going to leave fitting the 25mm GP5000 to my rear Hunt wheel for another day, as it also needs the 11-34 cassette fitting, which then means I need to also fit the new KMC X11 chain and new R7000 GS rear mech.

Grand Prix 5000 tyres so hard to get over the rim

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