Cycling in Wales. Are we to take that "walking distance" crap seriously?
Due to being a regular night worker, a lot of my rides are at night anyway. One might call that socially distant. So no, I will not be taking the "walking distance" guidelines seriously, or at all for that matter. I will be keeping to social distancing. I am not encouraging anyone (including cycling groups) to meet up somewhere to go dogging or whatever it is people do. What ever it is you do, do it on your own and I don't see the problem in that.
I have read somewhere that it is just a guideline tho. Not set in actual law. Can anyone elaborate on that?
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Someone's taking it seriously!
https://road.cc/content/news/bristol-cyclist-flagged-strava-crossing-wales-2731870 -
Dogging on your own sounds difficult...shimanobottombracket said:I am not encouraging anyone (including cycling groups) to meet up somewhere to go dogging or whatever it is people do. What ever it is you do, do it on your own and I don't see the problem in that.
Grey area. They are guidelines, which are enforceable by the police via FP fines. Overall, the guidance in Wales on this topic has been an absolute mess, to the point where Welsh Cycling wrote to the Welsh Gov asking for clarification, but I don't think they got a reply.shimanobottombracket said:I have read somewhere that it is just a guideline tho. Not set in actual law. Can anyone elaborate on that?
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Glad you brought that up, I read about that earlier. That is absolutely shockingly pedantic.flasher said:Someone's taking it seriously!
https://road.cc/content/news/bristol-cyclist-flagged-strava-crossing-wales-273187
"Please have a word with him as the next time it is spotted the matter will be referred to the police. I have a screen shot of his ride today as proof should I need to take that step."
Yeah that'll give him the shivers!
This would have been more effective:
" I don't know who you are. I don't know what you look like . If you're continuing to ride a bike, I can tell you that you don't have much time left alive...I have are a very particular set of skills. Skills I have acquired over the internet. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you. If you stop riding now, that will be the end of it - I will not look for you, I will not pursue you... but if you don't, I will look for you, I will find you... and I will kill you. For I cannot be bargained with, I cannot be reasoned with. I do not feel fear, sympathy or remorse. And I absolutely will not stop ever, until I have run you over!"
But no he said that other thing instead.0 -
I follow a few guys who live in Wales, one has even a fairly public profile, having won several titles (no, it's not GT!)...
They don't seem to give a monkey about the walking distance thing... unless being 20 miles from home is OK. Haven't noticed any nasty comment either, so it's probably an accepted thing that nobody caresleft the forum March 20230 -
Living in Wales, the extra restrictions the FM announced really got to be as they all seemed to be against cyclists.
I have tried to stay within a reasonable distance from home when on the bike, but I know people who go off in the car every weekend (and some week days), drive to a location on the Rights of Way and then walk for hours. Nothing is said of them!
I heard last week that a club mate was the first cyclist in mid Wales to be fined for cycling further than 10 miles from his home, but I haven't spoken with him personally so not sure if the circumstances.
The 10 mile rule is yet another ridiculous decision by the First Minister who seems prejudice against cyclists and more concerned competing with/outdoing the government.0 -
In case it wasn't already clear, this has nothing to do with Welsh nationalism. The Welsh Labour gov is the ruling party - not Plaid Cymru. All it proves is that the Tories do not have a monopoly on stupidity.oxoman said:Typical of the Welsh nationalists, they believe only the English ride bikes. They will soon want us back for tourist revenue.
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If its any consolation it is worse in Scotland. We also have the "who can be most statesmanlike" contests - with the constant subtext of "we should be independent because we are better", leading to muddled nonsense like our mask-wearing advice and already guidance suggesting that we will be locked down for longer than England because somehow that must be better. While at the same time quietly relying on UK buying power to obtain PPE and testing kits. Bear in mind that the NHS is devolved.oxoman said:Typical of the Welsh nationalists, they believe only the English ride bikes. They will soon want us back for tourist revenue.
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I guess this crisis is showing the devolved governments are not really up to much. Looking at Scotland's numbers, they don't seem to fall as rapidly as elsewhere and Wales had a massive outbreak around Cardiff, which could have probably been contained better.
The walking distance rule is not a bad idea, but it came too late and I don't think anyone gives a damn about the devolved administration in Walesleft the forum March 20230 -
Really? I thought these were only 'guidelines', and not legally enforceable? How can someone be fined if they aren't breaking the law?redvision said:Living in Wales, the extra restrictions the FM announced really got to be as they all seemed to be against cyclists.
I have tried to stay within a reasonable distance from home when on the bike, but I know people who go off in the car every weekend (and some week days), drive to a location on the Rights of Way and then walk for hours. Nothing is said of them!
I heard last week that a club mate was the first cyclist in mid Wales to be fined for cycling further than 10 miles from his home, but I haven't spoken with him personally so not sure if the circumstances.
The 10 mile rule is yet another ridiculous decision by the First Minister who seems prejudice against cyclists and more concerned competing with/outdoing the government.0 -
Whereas, central government is doing a cracking job..? If anyone has learnt anything from all this, it is that politicians should not be allowed anywhere near crisis management.ugo.santalucia said:I guess this crisis is showing the devolved governments are not really up to much.
The walking distance rule is a stupid idea and is being universally ignored, as far as I can tell. Principally because it is both absurd and unworkable in equal measure.ugo.santalucia said:The walking distance rule is not a bad idea, but it came too late and I don't think anyone gives a damn about the devolved administration in Wales
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Walking distance? Well, I know a couple of guys who run 100 miles for fun.
How far could they walk? A very vague and stupid idea.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Nobody can, in theory, be fined for being more than '10 miles from home' - because no such limit on distance has been specified by the Welsh Gov. The guidelines only say 'walking distance', which is massively open to interpretation. The Western Mail was the only paper stupid enough to try to quantify the walking distance rule by suggesting it ought to be 10 miles. But that is just a newspaper talking bollox, as opposed to the official guidance. So if anyone has been fined for being further than 10 miles away, it would be highly unlikely to stand up to a legal challenge.lakesluddite said:Really? I thought these were only 'guidelines', and not legally enforceable? How can someone be fined if they aren't breaking the law?
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The Welsh Government stated last week that further than 10 miles from your home is an unreasonable distance and considered in breach of coronavirus lockdown restrictions.imposter2.0 said:
Nobody can, in theory, be fined for being more than '10 miles from home' - because no such limit on distance has been specified by the Welsh Gov. The guidelines only say 'walking distance', which is massively open to interpretation. The Western Mail was the only paper stupid enough to try to quantify the walking distance rule by suggesting it ought to be 10 miles. But that is just a newspaper talking bollox, as opposed to the official guidance. So if anyone has been fined for being further than 10 miles away, it would be highly unlikely to stand up to a legal challenge.lakesluddite said:Really? I thought these were only 'guidelines', and not legally enforceable? How can someone be fined if they aren't breaking the law?
This is why cycling associations and campaigners have sought clarity from WG, which so far has not been forthcoming.
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redvision said:
The Welsh Government stated last week that further than 10 miles from your home is an unreasonable distance and considered in breach of coronavirus lockdown restrictions.imposter2.0 said:
Nobody can, in theory, be fined for being more than '10 miles from home' - because no such limit on distance has been specified by the Welsh Gov. The guidelines only say 'walking distance', which is massively open to interpretation. The Western Mail was the only paper stupid enough to try to quantify the walking distance rule by suggesting it ought to be 10 miles. But that is just a newspaper talking bollox, as opposed to the official guidance. So if anyone has been fined for being further than 10 miles away, it would be highly unlikely to stand up to a legal challenge.lakesluddite said:Really? I thought these were only 'guidelines', and not legally enforceable? How can someone be fined if they aren't breaking the law?
This is why cycling associations and campaigners have sought clarity from WG, which so far has not been forthcoming.
And I think this is why, not just in Wales, there has been widespread confusion around the exercise 'situation'. As far as I can tell, there are 'guidelines', and then there is 'the law' (regulation). I would not have thought anyone could be fined for breaking 'guidelines' - only for breaking the law. We have seen countless authority figures - Govt ministers, Welsh Govt ministers, police chiefs, PPCs etc give their own interpretations, and even their own personal opinion on what the guidelines are, but them giving their interpretations/opinions does not mean this is the law. The Social Media exercise vigilantes don't seem to able to tell the difference.0 -
Sorry, but the Welsh Gov has stated nothing of the sort. As I said earlier, they have not specified any acceptable distance from home - and perpetuating this sort of misinformation is not helpful.redvision said:
The Welsh Government stated last week that further than 10 miles from your home is an unreasonable distance and considered in breach of coronavirus lockdown restrictions.
This is why cycling associations and campaigners have sought clarity from WG, which so far has not been forthcoming.
The latest guidance is here, for info: https://gov.wales/leaving-home-exercise-guidance
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Which is exactly what has caused the confusion because at the ministers press conference last week, when asked what defined walking distance, he stated clearly 10 miles.imposter2.0 said:
Sorry, but the Welsh Gov has stated nothing of the sort. As I said earlier, they have not specified any acceptable distance from home - and perpetuating this sort of misinformation is not helpful.redvision said:
The Welsh Government stated last week that further than 10 miles from your home is an unreasonable distance and considered in breach of coronavirus lockdown restrictions.
This is why cycling associations and campaigners have sought clarity from WG, which so far has not been forthcoming.
The latest guidance is here, for info: https://gov.wales/leaving-home-exercise-guidance
British cycling, Welsh cycling, cycling UK, sustrans, plus others have all asked for clearer guidance but the FM has so far refused to provide it and just refers to anything beyond 10 miles considered unreasonable.
And clearly his comments are what the police are adhering to, hence the first cyclist in mid Wales being fined by dyfed powys police for riding further than 10 miles from his home.0 -
On the wider subject of the restrictions, last night I read a blog by a UK lawyer who claimed that even with the emergency laws passed any fines could be challenged in court as they are technically against human rights.
Not sure if this is accurate but food for thought.0 -
I can't find any record of any minister making such a statement, unless you can help with that. But what individual ministers say in ad-hoc commentary outside of the officially-approved guidance is not relevant and should have no bearing. The point I'm making is that the official guidance has not changed and does not specify any particular distance.redvision said:
Which is exactly what has caused the confusion because at the ministers press conference last week, when asked what defined walking distance, he stated clearly 10 miles.imposter2.0 said:
Sorry, but the Welsh Gov has stated nothing of the sort. As I said earlier, they have not specified any acceptable distance from home - and perpetuating this sort of misinformation is not helpful.redvision said:
The Welsh Government stated last week that further than 10 miles from your home is an unreasonable distance and considered in breach of coronavirus lockdown restrictions.
This is why cycling associations and campaigners have sought clarity from WG, which so far has not been forthcoming.
The latest guidance is here, for info: https://gov.wales/leaving-home-exercise-guidance
British cycling, Welsh cycling, cycling UK, sustrans, plus others have all asked for clearer guidance but the FM has so far refused to provide it and just refers to anything beyond 10 miles considered unreasonable.
And clearly his comments are what the police are adhering to, hence the first cyclist in mid Wales being fined by dyfed powys police for riding further than 10 miles from his home.
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Can't find the minutes/ briefing transcript, only the press releases (which were published nationally).
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/new-lockdown-rules-issued-people-18141144
No exact distance is stated, you are right on that, but WG have 'suggested' 10 miles from home being the max for cyclists and this is the distance police forces in Wales appear to be enforcing.0 -
You are linking to the Walesonline/Western Mail website, which is where the disinformation originated in the first place. No other news organisation has been stupid enough to second guess what the Welsh Gov meant, which is why Welsh Cycling queried the guidance in the first place. Like I said before, this is nothing more than misinformation.redvision said:Can't find the minutes/ briefing transcript, only the press releases (which were published nationally).
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/new-lockdown-rules-issued-people-18141144
No exact distance is stated, you are right on that, but WG have 'suggested' 10 miles from home being the max for cyclists and this is the distance police forces in Wales appear to be enforcing.0 -
I don't agree with the new rulings in Wales but it's quite obvious what the law implies/states ;
don't cycle more than walking distance from home (which is about 10 miles) which I wouldn't want to walk in cleats!
Don't cycle more than once a day for exercise and not for extended periods. ie don't do 100 milers. MD stated 4-5 hour rides were "out of the question".0 -
I'd have thought the law in Wales is the same as the law in England, given that it is the same statute and the same legal system. In which case, I'm not sure what a statement from a local government official actually amounts to?
The guidance issued by the MET seems more likely to be relevant to me, since it was based on what "reasonable" might be interpreted to mean in a court.0 -
The other problem in Scotland is that they are struggling to get enough people to track and trace, plus testing numbers are proportionately low. Quietly, they've actually done worse even than Boris. The only time Sturgeon actually moved faster was to leg it out of the COBRA meeting and down the corridor to gazump the UK government to the first press conference announcing social restrictions.ugo.santalucia said:I guess this crisis is showing the devolved governments are not really up to much. Looking at Scotland's numbers, they don't seem to fall as rapidly as elsewhere and Wales had a massive outbreak around Cardiff, which could have probably been contained better.
The walking distance rule is not a bad idea, but it came too late and I don't think anyone gives a damn about the devolved administration in Wales0 -
There are laws, rules, guidance and advice. All 4 are different and can be interpreted differently. Result, confusion and differences of opinion. Arguing here won't help.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
It's not 'the law' - it's guidance - and it's not 'obvious' what it states. If it was obvious, we wouldn't need to be having this discussion.masjer said:I don't agree with the new rulings in Wales but it's quite obvious what the law implies/states ;
don't cycle more than walking distance from home (which is about 10 miles) which I wouldn't want to walk in cleats!
I personally wouldn't want to walk any more than half a mile pushing a bike while wearing a pair of Bonts with Look cleats on.
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It's very obvious what the law states if your not a pedant.
The idea behind the law is to stop people having to be picked up by friends or family members in the event of an accident/breakdown. If you can only walk half a mile, then that would have to be the maximum distance from home (If you actually even live in Wales).0 -
It's 'guidance' - not the law. It self-evidently is NOT obvious, because there is no mention of distance specified anywhere within it. The guidance also contains phrases like 'rule of thumb' and 'reasonable' distance, both of which are open to individual interpretation. Which is why people are still going out and doing pretty much what they like, when they like.masjer said:It's very obvious what the law states if your not a pedant.
The idea behind the law is to stop people having to be picked up by friends or family members in the event of an accident/breakdown. If you can only walk half a mile, then that would have to be the maximum distance from home (If you actually even live in Wales).
And yes, I do live in Wales - if that's even relevant.
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Well if the police are issuing fines to cyclists for breaching lockdown restrictions by riding further than 10miles from their home then I think that speaks volumes.0
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Imposter- If you are many miles from home and are questioned by the police, you'll have to explain that you don't understand the law or just tell them it's only guidance and cycle on your merry way. They may take pity but I doubt it.0
Yes I am bored looking forward to bike this afternoon.
