Will you continue cycling as normal during coronavirus?

ugo.santalucia

Seriously, this is not the time for mixed messages and personal opinions from the likes of police, NHS, Fire Services, Councils and whatnot... they should silence their Twitter accounts for the time being, to avoid confusion

First.Aspect

Give police powers. Some police misuse them. 'Twas ever thus.

I know a gardener who was sent home by the police yesterday. My understanding is that you are specifically allowed to do this (outdoors, solo working). But has anyone tried reasoning with a policeman who is clearly in the wrong?

fenix

I don't think gardening is an essential. From your description it was a tradesman ?

This virus is killing people. My father in law included. A bloke going From house to house could easily be a carrier. I'm completely with the police.

pblakeney

fenix said:

I don't think gardening is an essential. From your description it was a tradesman ?

This virus is killing people. My father in law included. A bloke going From house to house could easily be a carrier. I'm completely with the police.

A carrier does not spread unless they come into contact/distance though.
No contact and social distancing = no spread = no problem.

kingstongraham

fenix said:

I don't think gardening is an essential. From your description it was a tradesman ?

This virus is killing people. My father in law included. A bloke going From house to house could easily be a carrier. I'm completely with the police.

If he is working solo, and not coming within 2 metres of anyone else, then there is no reason for him to stop.

DeVlaeminck

fenix said:

I don't think gardening is an essential. From your description it was a tradesman ?

This virus is killing people. My father in law included. A bloke going From house to house could easily be a carrier. I'm completely with the police.

Not sure how a gardener works from home? The govt have said people can carry in working - you don't have to be a key worker.

fenix

And who is there to check he's not taking cash off little old dears - then onto the next house - oh yes - cup of tea would be lovely. Thanks - there's the cup back.

Already I know of 2 people on ventilators.

The less contact/movement - the better.

N0bodyOfTheGoat

First.Aspect said:

Give police powers. Some police misuse them. 'Twas ever thus.

I know a gardener who was sent home by the police yesterday. My understanding is that you are specifically allowed to do this (outdoors, solo working). But has anyone tried reasoning with a policeman who is clearly in the wrong?

Remember this heated discussion between a cyclist and close passing police officer from a few years back?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=79&v=2Gkk9J0ItZ0&feature=emb_logo

The current lockdown rules are very vague in many respects, perhaps to slow down the spread of COVID-19, without stopping the spread altogether. As far as I'm aware, we currently have no clear-cut rule stating how far cyclists can ride away from home for their exercise. Heck, it's not even clear-cut about whether it's wrong to drive out of suburbia before starting your ride, Gove MP was apparently practically encouraging it the other day!

poweredbyidris

The problem is that the government guideline is quite clearly an allowance to get out of the house once a day and get some exercise.

People have taken this to mean that they can continue to do full training / long rides and that's not really the spirit of the allowance.

Whilst we're aware that going for a solo ride is probably going to be fine in terms of social distancing, for those looking on it appears that it's 'business as usual', and therefore it's fine to drive to a beauty spot and go for a walk for 4 hours, or just not staying at home.

We all have a responsibility to understand what the government are trying to do, not push the boundaries because we think 'it'll be fine', and accept that things have changed

DeVlaeminck

fenix said:

And who is there to check he's not taking cash off little old dears - then onto the next house - oh yes - cup of tea would be lovely. Thanks - there's the cup back.

Already I know of 2 people on ventilators.

The less contact/movement - the better.

What if the gardener needs to work to eat ? I'm not sure what support there is for a self employed gardener who is allowed to work but decides not to. Serious point - if the govt have forbidden him to work except for emergency stuff then you are right - if not then it's really up to the govt. to do so if they don't want him to otherwise he could be looking at going into debt, losing regular customers to competitors etc. I mean it sounds like I'm putting money before life but we could all give everything we have to save lives not many of us actually choose to do it.

Charlie_Croker

N0bodyOfTheGoat said:

Remember this heated discussion between a cyclist and close passing police officer from a few years back?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=79&v=2Gkk9J0ItZ0&feature=emb_logo

The current lockdown rules are very vague in many respects, perhaps to slow down the spread of COVID-19, without stopping the spread altogether. As far as I'm aware, we currently have no clear-cut rule stating how far cyclists can ride away from home for their exercise. Heck, it's not even clear-cut about whether it's wrong to drive out of suburbia before starting your ride, Gove MP was apparently practically encouraging it the other day!

I'd forgotten this sort of institutionalized prejudice existed, but yes, it does

Longshot

poweredbyidris said:

The problem is that the government guideline is quite clearly an allowance to get out of the house once a day and get some exercise.

People have taken this to mean that they can continue to do full training / long rides and that's not really the spirit of the allowance.

Whilst we're aware that going for a solo ride is probably going to be fine in terms of social distancing, for those looking on it appears that it's 'business as usual', and therefore it's fine to drive to a beauty spot and go for a walk for 4 hours, or just not staying at home.

We all have a responsibility to understand what the government are trying to do, not push the boundaries because we think 'it'll be fine', and accept that things have changed

You can't "push the boundaries" when none have been defined.

It is absolutely logical that if you ride for longer then there is a greater mathematical chance of being in an accident that requires and ties up NHS resources.

Other than that, as long as you obey the guidance on 2 metres, what difference does it make?

For the record, I'm using my turbo.

neeb

One issue is that different people have very different views of what constitutes a sensible amount of daily exercise necessary to maintain physical and mental health, as well as, in fact, different needs. If you are a keen road cyclist a 90 minute ride at a good pace doesn't seem excessive, but many people might see a 30 mile cycle as a blatant infringement of the spirit of the lockdown. So if "boundaries" were to be set they would really need to be relative to fitness and lifestyle differences. Those would be impossible to define, so discretion and common sense need to come into the personal choices people make and, importantly, the way the rules are enforced. So (to be a devil's advocate) you could say that vagueness in definitions is necessary to some extent.

poweredbyidris

"You can't "push the boundaries" when none have been defined."

This is the problem - we're supposed to be adults capable with rational thought, but unless it's spelled out to the nth degree, there's people who's first reaction is "Well, Boris didn't say don't do that"

As I mentioned above, if we carry on as normal, we will be seen to and it goes against the stay at home message. Therefore other people will think "well, if he's out of his house for 6-7 hours a day, why can't I?"

I realise this mindset isn't our fault, but we have to be aware of what the impacts of carrying on as normal may be. And if people start thinking they can be out all day for their 'daily exercise', then the government will have no option but to enforce a total lockdown. So it's in our interests to try to understand what the government are trying to do and curtail outdoor activity.

(not having a go at you here Longshot - apologies if it comes across like that. Fair play for resigning yourself to the turbo)

fenix

There was a pro triathlete on strava yesterday clocking up a 9 and a half hour ride round Norfolk. So literally 10;s of miles away from his home base. That's just taking the pee.

ugo.santalucia

poweredbyidris said:

The problem is that the government guideline is quite clearly an allowance to get out of the house once a day and get some exercise.

People have taken this to mean that they can continue to do full training / long rides and that's not really the spirit of the allowance.

changed

not true, all my Audax friends have gone from doing 200-300 km to doing 40 or so... I used to do 4 or 5 hours on a nice sunny day like today, I am down to under 2 hours, as the weather turns colder in the next few days, most people will probably be happy with an hour

poweredbyidris

ugo.santalucia said:

poweredbyidris said:

The problem is that the government guideline is quite clearly an allowance to get out of the house once a day and get some exercise.

People have taken this to mean that they can continue to do full training / long rides and that's not really the spirit of the allowance.

changed

not true, all my Audax friends have gone from doing 200-300 km to doing 40 or so... I used to do 4 or 5 hours on a nice sunny day like today, I am down to under 2 hours, as the weather turns colder in the next few days, most people will probably be happy with an hour

I wasn't suggesting everyone was carrying on as normal, or even the majority.

Yep, am doing about 1-1.5hrs when I go out too. Tis plenty.

Longshot

poweredbyidris said:

"You can't "push the boundaries" when none have been defined."

This is the problem - we're supposed to be adults capable with rational thought, but unless it's spelled out to the nth degree, there's people who's first reaction is "Well, Boris didn't say don't do that"

As I mentioned above, if we carry on as normal, we will be seen to and it goes against the stay at home message. Therefore other people will think "well, if he's out of his house for 6-7 hours a day, why can't I?"

I realise this mindset isn't our fault, but we have to be aware of what the impacts of carrying on as normal may be. And if people start thinking they can be out all day for their 'daily exercise', then the government will have no option but to enforce a total lockdown. So it's in our interests to try to understand what the government are trying to do and curtail outdoor activity.

(not having a go at you here Longshot - apologies if it comes across like that. Fair play for resigning yourself to the turbo)

Didn't take it that way at all.

bianchimoon

I hope your relative gets well soon Fenix, it is recoverable at any age, stay positive.
Also totally with Ugo in that solo cycling certainly where I live I can do 40 miles and come across perhaps 10-15 other cyclist at most, the chances of passing anything on or catching anything are negligible, the chances of accidents soloing are much reduced from anytime in the past, yes I appreciate it is still a possibility.
The alternative is to stay at home, eat too much, drink too much, binge watch crap on Netflix Which I mentally can't do anyway or do DIY/Gardening which if you've seen the way I approach these things would likely be far more of drain on the NHS. Staying physically fit is a good way to fight off the virus if the worse happens and the mental benefits go without saying.
So glad the government still have no restrictions on cycling/exercising and time distance covered. Might change but while I can I will... sensibly and responsibly.

ugo.santalucia said:

fenix said:

bianchimoon said:

Hey mr angry, the government admitted they learnt a lot of lessons about the over zealous reaction to F&M and would handle it totally different if/when it happens again. read the post properly instead of just ranting

fenix said:

This isn't foot and mouth. It's not spreading to livestock. F&M was completely different and nobheads walking in the country were a risk. No wonder the farmers were annoyed.

Well seeing as a housebound relative now has Coronavirus and at his age - its very doubtful we will ever see him again, I think I'm allowed to be 'angry'. We should be like France and really clamp down. No cycling. No walking more than 1km from your home.
No setting off up Snowdon.

I am sorry to hear that, but bear in mind even > 80 YO have a 90% chance to survive, so don't write them off just yet.

As for solo cycling: the problem, as I see it, is that if you take away a bit of outdoor exercise every day, then you move the issue to the GP practices, which will see more people with anxiety, depression, high blood pressure, low vitamin D3 etc... so then you have to make a decision if the low risk of ending up in A&E + the almost zero risk of contracting Covid-19 while exercising alone outdoors outweighs the above mentioned risks... GP practices are of course stretched to the limit too.
It is possible extra measures might be necessary in London, where there are too many people and possibly not enough space to exercise outdoor safely, although I don't believe this is the case, but elsewhere it's not really an issue

There is also a lot of talk of people behaving badly, but let's talk about people behaving well, for a change. Since Monday, I haven't seen anyone cycling other than solo or in a mixed gender couple. I went to the supermarket this morning and all customers were queuing keeping > 2 m apart calmly and without an issue.

joe_totale-2

Statement has been put out by The Royal Parks stating that cycling in Richmond Park has now been banned.
This is due to crowds of cyclists at the park gates who are not observing social distancing.

Have to think of something else for tomorrow now...

monkimark

It's closed from saturday i think - it's a shame for the family groups i saw cycling around nicely spaced out on monday evening but I guess it's a lot busier during the day now (i haven't cycled in since monday)

I did see something on an email about the distance apart you should be when cycling at speed and I think it was 16m at 20km/h so the social distancing becomes a bit more difficult in a relatively small space like a park that a lot of people are travelling to.

Charlie_Croker

Folk just don't listen do they, we'll be banned from cycling the roads period, if we don't behave like responsible adults : if it's crowded just don't go there

warned: https://www.cyclist.co.uk/news/7923/richmond-park-closed-to-cars-bikes-next-if-cyclists-fail-to-ride-solo

ugo.santalucia

Closing Richmond park is almost inevitable, it's such a magnet for cyclists and even more so if it's closed to other forms of traffic. Londoners will have to find somewhere else to ride their bike...
The problem of London is... well, it's London. Containing epidemics in large cities is almost impossible, as Madrid and Milan showed and New York is showing on a bigger scale.
Even locking people inside has a marginal effect, when people still have to share elevators and staircases inside high rise buildings and condos. Not to speak about busier shops, which need to be busier than elsewhere to pay for the higher rent...

Dorset_Boy

With regards to the amount of exercise, I'm pretty sure the guidance is your normal amount. so if you do 15 hours per week outdoors on the bike, you are ok carrying on doing so.

Clearly there are a lot of people going from zero to 4 hours per week!

ugo.santalucia

Dorset_Boy said:

Clearly there are a lot of people going from zero to 4 hours per week!

... which is great!

imposter2.0

fenix said:

There was a pro triathlete on strava yesterday clocking up a 9 and a half hour ride round Norfolk. So literally 10;s of miles away from his home base. That's just taking the pee.

I don't see why that's taking the pee. Gove is on record saying "just do whatever you would normally do" or words to that effect. In any case, as long as said triathlete is social distancing, riding alone and not stopping at cafes, etc, then it really doesn't matter if he is out for 9.5 minutes, 9.5 hours or 9.5 days, does it?

fenix

Funny that so many people are only interested in keeping healthy when there's a pandemic on !

diamonddog

Cycling Weekly reporting Belgium looking to limit cycling to 50k max.

joe2019

imposter2.0 said:

fenix said:

There was a pro triathlete on strava yesterday clocking up a 9 and a half hour ride round Norfolk. So literally 10;s of miles away from his home base. That's just taking the pee.

I don't see why that's taking the pee. Gove is on record saying "just do whatever you would normally do" or words to that effect. In any case, as long as said triathlete is social distancing, riding alone and not stopping at cafes, etc, then it really doesn't matter if he is out for 9.5 minutes, 9.5 hours or 9.5 days, does it?

Government are saying 'Stay Local' when exercising.

neeb

diamonddog said:

Cycling Weekly reporting Belgium looking to limit cycling to 50k max.

That's not unreasonable. Is that 50k max per trip, or to keep within 50k of your home?