Ultegra Di2 8050 v Dura Ace 9100
Got my eye on 2 bikes & can't decide between them.
Plus points for the Di2 bike is it's cheaper by £400 & has the gearing setup (52/36 & 11/28) I want. Minus points are that it only comes with a cheap pair of aluminium wheels (Mavic Aksiums).
Plus points for the DA is that aesthetically I really like the look of the frame colour much more than the Di2 bike & it comes with an (albeit cheapish set) of carbon wheels. Minus points are that the gearing isn't ideally what I want (50/34 & 11/30 although this isn't a dealbreaker) & it comes with external cabling on the downtube which I'm not a massive fan of on higher end bikes although I do concede it's easier to maintain.
Bear in mind I'm used to 105 so either will be a massive step up.
I did pretty much have my heart set on the Di2 as I thought it was a great price until I spotted the DA which I instantly liked the look of so then my thoughts turned to buying that & upgrade to Di2 in a year or 2. Flip side is I could have Di2 now!
Would you say that the real world difference in performance (not too fussy about weight although I do consider it) between the 2 is minimal given that 1 is top end mechanical & the other is 2nd tier electronic?
Thoughts please?
Comments
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I'd go Di2, superior experience to mechanical for me.1
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If you live somewhere hilly and you're built like a climber go Dura-ace.
Else go for Di2.
If you go for the Di2 bike, you can always change the wheels at a later date. There are also DI2 upgrade kits you can get if you go the other way but they may not work well / look a bit crap on a bike with external cabling.1 -
I don't live somewhere super hilly but I do like to hit the hills now & again and I am a skinny runt.super_davo said:If you live somewhere hilly and you're built like a climber go Dura-ace.
Else go for Di2.
If you go for the Di2 bike, you can always change the wheels at a later date. There are also DI2 upgrade kits you can get if you go the other way but they may not work well / look a bit censored on a bike with external cabling.
I've seen those Di2 upgrade kits where you get the shifters, front / rear mechs & cabling, they review well & are pretty easy to install apparently but as you say not quite sure it would look right even though you could get it to work.
Another downside of DA is high cost of replacement bits such as cassettes etc which are extortionately priced.
I guess it's a simple case of aesthetics of the DA bike v getting Di2.
I should add I’m not a racer or anything like that, I’m just someone who enjoys riding their bike as often as possible & I have this nagging doubt that anything DA is just too “good” for me if that makes sense.0 -
Get Di2 Ultegra. Electronic shifting is a far better upgrade then the few grams you might save with mechanical Dura Ace.1
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I have both dura ace di2 on my best bike and ultegra r8000 on my training bike. I know you're asking about ultegra di2 and mech dura ace but still...
In all honesty, I was swayed by the hype but di2 isn't the amazing experience that it's made out to be.
Yes you get nice crisp shifting, but I get that on my mechanical ultegra as well.
I was told that once you go electrical groupset you will never go back mechanical but for me this wouldn't be the case - the only reason I will be sticking to di2 on my best bike, and will probably install it on my training bike, is because I have nerve damage in my left arm following a crash 18 months ago and it can be very difficult changing gear with mechanical shifters. This is definitely where, in my opinion, di2 excels.
So my advice, don't be swayed by the hype and go with which one you like the look of best. I seriously doubt you will notice any difference in performance between the groupsets and will be very happy with which ever one you go for.
Oh, one other thing to note, dura ace components are expensive to replace but di2 components are also. Tip, if you go dura ace, when it's time to change cassette don't bother going dura ace, go ultegra. Half the price and only a few grams heavier.1 -
Mmmmm very interesting thanks for that.
If I knew for a fact that Dura Ace was on a par with the Di2 in terms of performance I'd go for that as I just like the look of the DA bike far better.
I've always hankered after Di2 (probably swayed by the hype) but I guess you don't miss what you've never had & as I've said I'm used to 105 so either would be a vast step up.
I just get that nagging feeling in the back of my mind though as much as I like the look of the DA bike better I could get Di2 & still have change....0 -
Dura Ace performs the same as Ultegra and 105. The only difference is weight (and how it looks).
Di2 is superior due to:
1. Requires no maintance as it keeps shifting like it is new
2. You can go semi-automatic were it will automatically change your front gear (so almost as if you have a 1X setup): Also you hold the button were it keeps shifting up or down until you release it.
3. Shifting the front with mechanical is annoying as you have to trim it. With electronic shifting this is not as issue.
Now I got mechanical shifting on my gravel bike as I use it under hard conditions so it must be cheap if something breaks.
But for the fully integrated aero bike, Di2 is the only option due to maintance as I do not want to open it up regularly to fix the gearing.1 -
With all due respect but if you are having to adjust a mechanical gearing constantly them something is wrong with your set up.zest28 said:Dura Ace performs the same as Ultegra and 105. The only difference is weight (and how it looks).
Di2 is superior due to:
1. Requires no maintance as it keeps shifting like it is new
2. You can go semi-automatic were it will automatically change your front gear (so almost as if you have a 1X setup): Also you hold the button were it keeps shifting up or down until you release it.
3. Shifting the front with mechanical is annoying as you have to trim it. With electronic shifting this is not as issue.
Now I got mechanical shifting on my gravel bike as I use it under hard conditions so it must be cheap if something breaks.
But for the fully integrated aero bike, Di2 is the only option due to maintance as I do not want to open it up regularly to fix the gearing.
Set a mechanical groupset up correctly and there is as little adjustment needed as di2. Both can have issues but both can also run trouble free.0 -
Maybe you simply don’t ride enough.0
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My mechanic skills are next to none so no maintenance is a big tick for me.zest28 said:Dura Ace performs the same as Ultegra and 105. The only difference is weight (and how it looks).
Di2 is superior due to:
1. Requires no maintance as it keeps shifting like it is new
2. You can go semi-automatic were it will automatically change your front gear (so almost as if you have a 1X setup): Also you hold the button were it keeps shifting up or down until you release it.
3. Shifting the front with mechanical is annoying as you have to trim it. With electronic shifting this is not as issue.
Now I got mechanical shifting on my gravel bike as I use it under hard conditions so it must be cheap if something breaks.
But for the fully integrated aero bike, Di2 is the only option due to maintance as I do not want to open it up regularly to fix the gearing.
Having said that apart from maybe the odd 1/2 turn of a barrel adjuster here & there I’ve never really needed to play with my mechanical setup either.
I can’t help feeling I’m just paying the extra for DA just to save weight no matter how much I prefer the look of it.
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zest28 said:
Maybe you simply don’t ride enough.
Of course, mechanical groupsets are known to be awful and unreliable, that's why they only lasted a few decades and a significant number of riders still use them/ bikes are supplied with them.
Like I said, di2 is great, but mechanical groupsets can be as well.
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I pooh-poohed Di2 for years being an avid SRAM mechanical fan boy. Owing to a vascular problem with the artery to the left upper body, my left arm goes numb after around 30-60 minutes of riding, so I bought R8050 Di2. Now, I would never go back to mechanical.
The one advantage of mechanical is the satisfaction of setting it up and doing a good job of the indexing.
Di2 needs virtually no tinkering other than charging the battery when near depletion. You can program the shifting to whatever you like. If you like how SRAM etap works, you can program the rear shifting to work the same. I use the semi auto shift function to automatically change gear on the front solving the problem of my numb left hand.I ride a bike. Doesn't make me green or a tree hugger. I drive a car too.1 -
Unless you are a pro, a well set up high end mechanical groupset is far better than any electronic one and will benefit you more.
The only way electronic groupset will make you better is in the willy waving contest outside the cafe.1 -
Unashamedly into gadgets so being able to program the shifting & see info on the headunit really appeals.StillGoing said:I pooh-poohed Di2 for years being an avid SRAM mechanical fan boy. Owing to a vascular problem with the artery to the left upper body, my left arm goes numb after around 30-60 minutes of riding, so I bought R8050 Di2. Now, I would never go back to mechanical.
The one advantage of mechanical is the satisfaction of setting it up and doing a good job of the indexing.
Di2 needs virtually no tinkering other than charging the battery when near depletion. You can program the shifting to whatever you like. If you like how SRAM etap works, you can program the rear shifting to work the same. I use the semi auto shift function to automatically change gear on the front solving the problem of my numb left hand.0 -
Curious to know in what way is it better & how will it benefit me more?jollygiant said:Unless you are a pro, a well set up high end mechanical groupset is far better than any electronic one and will benefit you more.
The only way electronic groupset will make you better is in the willy waving contest outside the cafe.0 -
How very constructive. Off you go.jollygiant said:Unless you are a pro, a well set up high end mechanical groupset is far better than any electronic one and will benefit you more.
The only way electronic groupset will make you better is in the willy waving contest outside the cafe.
I ride a bike. Doesn't make me green or a tree hugger. I drive a car too.0 -
I'm curious to know what new bike, especially one kitted with R9100 has external cabling in this day and age????ibr17xvii said:
Plus points for the DA is that aesthetically I really like the look of the frame colour much more than the Di2 bike & it comes with an (albeit cheapish set) of carbon wheels. Minus points are that the gearing isn't ideally what I want (50/34 & 11/30 although this isn't a dealbreaker) & it comes with external cabling on the downtube which I'm not a massive fan of on higher end bikes although I do concede it's easier to maintain.
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I'd look at what bottom bracket it has. Choose the one that ISN'T pushfit....
Sometimes. Maybe. Possibly.
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Supersix Evo older model.mugensi said:
I'm curious to know what new bike, especially one kitted with R9100 has external cabling in this day and age????ibr17xvii said:
Plus points for the DA is that aesthetically I really like the look of the frame colour much more than the Di2 bike & it comes with an (albeit cheapish set) of carbon wheels. Minus points are that the gearing isn't ideally what I want (50/34 & 11/30 although this isn't a dealbreaker) & it comes with external cabling on the downtube which I'm not a massive fan of on higher end bikes although I do concede it's easier to maintain.
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photonic69 said:
I'd look at what bottom bracket it has. Choose the one that ISN'T pushfit....
It does have a pressfit BB but I'm on a Cannondale at the minute & haven't had any issues touch wood.1 -
I've recently tried electronic shifting Di2 and AXS. I haven't had any major issues but I don't love either of them and I will be selling the bike with AXS to go back mechanical shifting. Clearly it's a preference thing as some prefer electronic shifting but I prefer the smoother changing and extra control over changing that mechanical gives you. I've never found maintenance to be a problem and I know that whenever I go to use my bike it's ready to go and there won't be any problems with batteries or software.1
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Interesting that you found mechanical smoother than either electronic groupset.daver1 said:I've recently tried electronic shifting Di2 and AXS. I haven't had any major issues but I don't love either of them and I will be selling the bike with AXS to go back mechanical shifting. Clearly it's a preference thing as some prefer electronic shifting but I prefer the smoother changing and extra control over changing that mechanical gives you. I've never found maintenance to be a problem and I know that whenever I go to use my bike it's ready to go and there won't be any problems with batteries or software.
As you say I guess it comes down to personal preference, I'd like to try both before I purchased to see what I preferred but that won't be possible so I'll just have to make my mind up!
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I have both, and hand on heart perfer the 9100.
I also have Ultegra 6800, and after some minor adjustments, unless I mode the height of the stem or change it, it literally needs zero adjustments, it's rock solid.
Same for the dura ace, which has even allowed me to run 53\36 which technically it shouldn't, but it shifts like it was made that way, no hesitation, nothing short of perfect.
ILook is not everything for me, but if it's a Sunday best bike, rather than commuter, than I have to like the look of it, otherwise I'll be slightly irked each time.
Admittedly you could get the frame resprayed, but that's a big expense, and time consuming stripping and refitting all the parts.
The DA bike you can upgrade to Di2 later presumably, though you'll likely need a different battery accommodating seatpost.
Oh and re Ultegra cassettes, spot on, Dura-ace are silly money, and I am lead to believe prone to rattling, so I flogged mine on from new for good money, and bought an R8000 one from Halfords for something like £42 after various discounts.Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
Scott CR1 SL 12
Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
Scott Foil 181 -
Must admit I am surprised about how many people still prefer mechanical even after having had Di2.daniel_b said:I have both, and hand on heart perfer the 9100.
I also have Ultegra 6800, and after some minor adjustments, unless I mode the height of the stem or change it, it literally needs zero adjustments, it's rock solid.
Same for the dura ace, which has even allowed me to run 53\36 which technically it shouldn't, but it shifts like it was made that way, no hesitation, nothing short of perfect.
ILook is not everything for me, but if it's a Sunday best bike, rather than commuter, than I have to like the look of it, otherwise I'll be slightly irked each time.
Admittedly you could get the frame resprayed, but that's a big expense, and time consuming stripping and refitting all the parts.
The DA bike you can upgrade to Di2 later presumably, though you'll likely need a different battery accommodating seatpost.
Oh and re Ultegra cassettes, spot on, Dura-ace are silly money, and I am lead to believe prone to rattling, so I flogged mine on from new for good money, and bought an R8000 one from Halfords for something like £42 after various discounts.
I was expecting most to say once you've had Di2 you won't go back so food for thought.0 -
You're conversing with a handful on Bike Radar, hardly a good pool.
I have both mechanical and Di2. Mechanical on my winter trainer (SRAM) and TT (Ultegra with Dura Ace shifters) bikes, and Di2 (R8050) on the best bike. I'd go Di2 on the TT bike in a heartbeat if I could justify the cost. A charge lasts for days with prolonged use, so I don't get the argument of worrying about flat batteries. I check the charge on mine the evening before use and charge it if it needs it. Of them all, the Di2 is the smoothest changing of the them all and as someone that builds and services bikes for others, I'm no hack at indexing. I use 105 cassettes as they're even cheaper than Ultegra.I ride a bike. Doesn't make me green or a tree hugger. I drive a car too.1 -
ibr17xvii said:
I wouldn't worry too much about that- even most Pro Conti' teams run Ultegra cassettes due to cost vs reliability issues with the DA cassettes (unless they solved the exploding carbon carrier bodies that plagued 9000 series?)super_davo said:
Another downside of DA is high cost of replacement bits such as cassettes etc which are extortionately priced.
Otherwise sure, if you race and go down dirty-side-down, it could potentially be expensive. I learnt that a few years ago on a day-old bike with Di2 (ffs)1 -
I've not had much experience with Di2, just a few days of a hire bike in Gran Canaria.
However, long enough for me to observe a couple of things...
Changing gear becomes addictive on Di2 - just to hear the sounds it makes (I'm sure this addiction wears off over time) :-)
The gears changes were silky smooth, but not necessarily any better than a well set up Ultegra/DA group.
Being able to change the way the gears shift is useful.
However, something I did notice, but couldn't try out, was that Di2 might be a bit more fiddly in the winter with full finger gloves. The buttons are not as obviously as a separate lever. If you don't plan to use it in winter with gloves, then this wouldn't make any difference though.
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I found when I made the switch to DI2 I ended up changing gear a lot more, it's just easier, quicker, I think about it less, I don't know why, but I do. Being in the right gear over the top of hill, etc... is a benefit to me. Sure, you can do this with mechanical, I am sure other people do, but for whatever reason, I didn't/don't. And it's not a case of a lack of experience as i've been riding a bike for 28 years and racing for 12, plenty of mechanical gear changes over that time.
When I was looking for the groupset for my new bike DI2 was a must. I have an older commute bike with 105 and sure, it's nice, smooth-shifting, etc... it's a very nice groupset for sure, just not the same for me.
Given the difference of opinion, perhaps you should try and organise a test ride on a DI2 bike, borrow from a friend? Get a rental? Go to a shop and try one out?1
