Tubular or Tubeless Wheels

yellowv2

As the title, I'm in a dilemma.
I'm going to buy a new set of rim brake lightweight wheels but unsure whether to try tubulars or stick with tubeless. I've never used tubular before but am considering them for these wheels.
What are current opinions/thoughts from those who may have used both please?

StillGoing

Tubeless. Tubular are great and I ran a set for a couple of years, but its the messing about with gluing/taping, the need to carry spare tubs and game over if you get two punctures. At least with tubeless, if the sealant doesn't work, you can insert a patch or inner tube to get you home.

shiznit76

I'm captain cautious, i still run my inner tubes, even on tubless ready wheels

thecycleclinic

Erm you carry tubes... plugs sir use plugs, inconjuction with selant you can fix everything that's fixable with tubeless tyre. If it's not fixable even on a temporary basis then a tube is not likely to help much either.

Tubs puncture less frequently. No idea why but they do. Tubular rims are better rims in general and less prone to side wall damage.

With tubs you carry a spare tyre and sealant. Between the two your fine
Also tubs van be ridden flat. So can good tubeless setup but the risk of rim damage is higher.

I use both tyre systems and like them equally. Good tubs are pricey though. Continental and dugast are my favourites.

yellowv2

Thanks for your thoughts pretty much my feelings.
I am tending towards tubeless as I am comfortable with them, already using them on both my winter and summer bikes.

neeb

Get some tubulars or you'll die without ever having tried them.. They are superior in so many ways - masisvely lighter, nicer to ride, safer..

It comes down to money though. You don't want to have tubular wheels as your only wheels. Get both if you can afford it.

Ride the tubs in summer, for proper rides on proper roads (not cycle paths) in +/- dry conditions, keep them at the right pressures and they will very rarely puncture, maybe once a season. If you don't fancy the faff of gluing pay someone in a local bike shop to do it for you. 10 or 20 quid once or twice a year.. I can glue mine but paying someone else to do it is an indulgence I feel I can justify..

yellowv2

They wouldn’t be my only wheels, I have a winter bike (tubeless) and also another set of 50mm Carbon tubeless on my best bike. So they are only intended to be used for summer, mostly in the mountains in the summer months.
My concern is more the faff if (that’s the best way of describing it) of changing one if I puncture out on a ride. Cost wise Tubeless aren’t much cheaper, we’ll the ones I use (IRC RBCC) aren’t.
You are right of course if I never try I’ll never know!

pippi_langsamer-2

You can, of course, fill "some", tubulars with sealant also, although most ppl frown upon it.

Regardless, I'd mirror my statement on another thread- rim brake tubulars are pretty much THE wheelset ppl want to get rid of these days with the uptake of discs and/ or tubeless, so there's some very, very good top-end wheelsets come up fairly regularly in classifieds here and elsewhere. I think you'd have to be mad to spend full whack on a new pair of tubular rimmers...

yellowv2

Thanks Pippi, that's a good thought.

fenix

My tubs were not as sturdy as others found.

Two flats on one ride. £120 worth of tyres.

Another flat even with sealant in. It wouldn't seal.

And these are on the roads I use all of the time. I can go months without incident on normal tyres.

So my vote is tubeless rather than tubs.

cruff

If you're racing, tubs. Just cos of the feel. If you're not... Neither. Road tubeless is the bike industry's solution to a problem that doesn't exist. Carry three spare tubes on long rides and a patch kit. If you're unlucky enough to get three flats on the same ride (each one taking the onerous sum of about 4 minutes to fix) then use the patch kit and go home - it ain't your day.

shortfall

cruff said:

If you're racing, tubs. Just cos of the feel. If you're not... Neither. Road tubeless is the bike industry's solution to a problem that doesn't exist. Carry three spare tubes on long rides and a patch kit. If you're unlucky enough to get three flats on the same ride (each one taking the onerous sum of about 4 minutes to fix) then use the patch kit and go home - it ain't your day.

I disagree. Sealant cures many punctures in tubeless before you have to stop. If sealant doesn't fix it then a plug(s) will and can be done with the without removing the wheel in less time than replacing an inner tube or patching. Tubeless can be run at lower pressures without compromising speed whilst making the ride way more comfortable. The only downsides I've encountered with tubeless include mounting the tyre on some rim/tyre combos but VAR levers solve this. Price and availability of tyres is not as good as tubed systems but this will improve with take up.

denis992

Went for a 20 mile ride with daughter on Saturday. When we got back she complained that the ride was a little wobbly. She had picked up a nail at some point early on and it had self sealed. No faffing around changing tubes etc, just carry on.
The last set of tyres I replaced had at least four punctures each that I knew nothing about.
Bought a small compressor (which has a 101 other uses) to fit reluctant tyres and have had to use ShoeGoo on the valves on one set of odd shaped wheels, apart from that no issues.
Won't ever buy another set of non tubeless wheels ever again and the rest of the fleet are slowly getting upgraded.
If I was doing races would I use Tubular...possibly. For commuting, group rides etc, all tubeless from now.

DeVlaeminck

Never tried tubeless, I wouldn't recommend tubs unless you really enjoy bike maintenance or have a team car following you. My experience is they don't puncture less than clinchers and whilst you can change a tub by the road unless you use tub tape (with glue you normally carry a spare tub which has been glued previously) I wouldn't fancy descending a mountain on it afterwards.

I don't find they have a better "feel" and tests show that they don't have better rolling resistance than clinchers.

cruff

I ride in Lancashire. Do around 16-18000km a year. I get about 5 punctures a year on average. Total expenditure of 25 quid (I don't bother patching tubes) and total time taken to fix them approximately 20 minutes. Like I said - a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

denis992

cruff said:

I ride in Lancashire. Do around 16-18000km a year. I get about 5 punctures a year on average. Total expenditure of 25 quid (I don't bother patching tubes) and total time taken to fix them approximately 20 minutes. Like I said - a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

Apologies, I didn't realise my opinion didn't count.

StillGoing

cruff said:

I ride in Lancashire. Do around 16-18000km a year. I get about 5 punctures a year on average. Total expenditure of 25 quid (I don't bother patching tubes) and total time taken to fix them approximately 20 minutes. Like I said - a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

Well clearly it does exist or the industry wouldn't have wasted money on development knowing luddites would stick to tubes. 4 minutes to remove a clincher, find the puncture, patch it, re-seat the tube and tyre, inflate and get going. Where's Norris McWhirter when you need him.

cruff

Got to love the Internet eh? Where every disagreement over the most trivial of things ends up as a Balkanized argument within three posts

Everyone is entitled to an opinion. It's just that, in my opinion, there aren't any compelling arguments for tubeless on the road. The only argument I've ever been given in its favour is that you get less punctures, or the punctures you do get are sealed more often than not by the sealant. In my opinion, the inconvenience of changing a tube is not offset by the extra ballache of going and maintaining tubeless.

fenix

What tyres are you using Cruff ?

cruff

fenix said:

What tyres are you using Cruff ?

Corsas on the race wheels.
Schwalbe Ones or Duranos on the training and long distance bikes.
GP4000s on the TT bike.

ugo.santalucia

cruff said:

Got to love the Internet eh? Where every disagreement over the most trivial of things ends up as a Balkanized argument within three posts

Everyone is entitled to an opinion. It's just that, in my opinion, there aren't any compelling arguments for tubeless on the road. The only argument I've ever been given in its favour is that you get less punctures, or the punctures you do get are sealed more often than not by the sealant. In my opinion, the inconvenience of changing a tube is not offset by the extra ballache of going and maintaining tubeless.

Yep,

Having used tubeless for a few years, I can only agree with Cruff... went back to clinchers a couple of years ago.

For the record, I even tried tubulars for a while... they are nice because they are expensive, equally expensive clinchers are just as nice. You can't carry enough spares to make them viable for anything longer than a circuit race or a short training ride.
I know a guy who rides Audax on tubulars... it was quite interesting (as in expensive) when he had to catch a cab back, about 50 miles away from the finish

yellowv2

I agree with shortfall and StillGoing. I'll not be going back to tubes, I have been happily using tubeless for a few years.
However, after reading a number of various articles/threads on WW and reading the replies to my question I think I shall stick with tubeless, for this set of wheels.

fenix

cruff said:

fenix said:

What tyres are you using Cruff ?

Corsas on the race wheels.
Schwalbe Ones or Duranos on the training and long distance bikes.
GP4000s on the TT bike.

Cheers. I echo the Contis.
I've got Michelin on the winter bike and have had two flats in two weeks so not entirely convinced of them.

StillGoing

cruff said:

I ride in Lancashire. Do around 16-18000km a year. I get about 5 punctures a year on average. Total expenditure of 25 quid (I don't bother patching tubes) and total time taken to fix them approximately 20 minutes. Like I said - a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

I'll give you Conti 4000s II clinchers are good, but I did have punctures with them. I've ran Mavic Yksion Pro UST for around 18 months now and not a single puncture that I'm aware of. Went on easily with the Mavic rims and inflated easily too. I'm running a Vittoria Corsa G2 rear and Conti GP5000s front on the TT bike to see what they're like for grip, longevity and puncture resistance. The Conti was a big pain in the arse to fit and I won't be buying another. Loses pressure a lot too.

yellowv2

I am currently using IRC Formula Pro RBCC which I am very impressed with, have them on my winter bike as well as summer bike on Carbon 50mm rims. Zero punctures in two summers that I know of and only a couple in two winters. Pretty good for a tyre which isn't specifically designed for winter use, given the roads round here.
I am considering trying the Mavic Yksion Pro UST on this set of wheels which will be built using Mavic Open Pro rims.

cruff

Had a set of the yksion pros on my Cosmics - they were decent, but I found they wore pretty quickly - only got about 2000 miles out of them before they'd had it. The Corsa is my favourite tyre. I've not found anything with the grip and feel of it - except the old pave - and I won't race on anything else now. The main problem is its lack of puncture resistance - seems to cut up really bad, so training on them is a double edged sword - I have more confidence in them than on the Schwalbe Duranos or Ones, but get a lot more punctures, so don't usually bother (and definitely not in winter - case in point last week on a training ride where I stupidly used the Rovals and got a flat halfway round that I'm pretty confident wouldn't have happened if I didn't have the Corsas on)

david37

cruff said:

Had a set of the yksion pros on my Cosmics - they were decent, but I found they wore pretty quickly - only got about 2000 miles out of them before they'd had it. The Corsa is my favourite tyre. I've not found anything with the grip and feel of it - except the old pave - and I won't race on anything else now. The main problem is its lack of puncture resistance - seems to cut up really bad, so training on them is a double edged sword - I have more confidence in them than on the Schwalbe Duranos or Ones, but get a lot more punctures, so don't usually bother (and definitely not in winter - case in point last week on a training ride where I stupidly used the Rovals and got a flat halfway round that I'm pretty confident wouldn't have happened if I didn't have the Corsas on)

I just stick with gp4000sII all year round now. like you I get very few punctures a year. probably less than 10 and usually when the tyre should have been retired. I did try tubeless and found it a faff and when punctures came they sometimes wouldnt seal, when tyrewall slices came, plugs didnt always do it and i needed to put a plastic strip in and use an inner tube. They also take more than three or four minutes to repair when that happens.

I ride with some people who are dogmatic about tubeless, and the maintenance free riding they bring. Theyre also people who struggle to repair their punctures without help. on short local rides, when they have a problem I leave them to it now. they are learning......

thegreatdivide

I must ride on some really clean roads. The last flat I had was on a tubular tyre back in Oct 2018 which was fixed with a third of a bottle of Tufo Extreme and then it was ridden all through last year (a 24mm Corsa SR on the back). The flat prior to that was on the winter bike at the start of 2017 (a 28mm Rubino Pro Control G clincher on the front).

I’ve got two sets of clinchers and three sets of tubular wheels and I haven’t carried a spare tubular on a ride for years. Sealant and Co2 is all you need.

kingstonian

cruff said:

Had a set of the yksion pros on my Cosmics - they were decent, but I found they wore pretty quickly - only got about 2000 miles out of them before they'd had it. The Corsa is my favourite tyre. I've not found anything with the grip and feel of it - except the old pave - and I won't race on anything else now. The main problem is its lack of puncture resistance - seems to cut up really bad, so training on them is a double edged sword - I have more confidence in them than on the Schwalbe Duranos or Ones, but get a lot more punctures, so don't usually bother (and definitely not in winter - case in point last week on a training ride where I stupidly used the Rovals and got a flat halfway round that I'm pretty confident wouldn't have happened if I didn't have the Corsas on)

I used to have Corsas on my best bike, the sound they make over the tarmac is incredible. Just sounds fast. Great tyres but the moment I got one puncture I swiftly got 2 others and it was game over for them.

StillGoing

Strange how different viewpoints are. I used Tubs for a couple of years, but the glueing and a roadside blowout turned me off of them. I've ridden GP4000s II clinchers and had probably two punctures. I switched to tubeless to give them a try and I like them. I've ridden tubeless Yksion Pro UST for two years on dry and wet roads, on smooth and gravel roads, stone shippings and not a single puncture that I'm aware of. I've had no problems fitting tubeless tyres without tools other than the Conti GP5000s. I've had no problem inflating tubeless tyres using a foot pump other than the GP5000s where I had to use my compressor.

The one thing I have yet to try is breaking the seal on the rim. Time will tell if that is an issue, but so far I'm a firm advocate of tubeless.

neeb

It all depends on how many punctures you get, doesn't it? If clinchers never punctured hardly anybody would bother with tubeless. If they punctured every second ride then almost everyone would.

Things that cause punctures - riding on cycle paths rather than roads, riding in towns, not changing tyres when worn, bad road surfaces, not inflating to correct pressure and checking before every ride, riding a lot in the wet, bad technique when changing tyres/tubes, probably even local geology..

Some of these factors can be avoided, others are just down to where you are and the type of riding you do. For me the number of punctures I get just doesn't give me any incentive to try tubeless. I like the freedom to be able to swap tyres around regularly and easily, and there's just something about the idea of filling my tyres with gunk that might squirt out, or solidify if I leave the bike over the winter, that I find oddly repulsive (irrational, I admit).