Back to fitness / very time crunched training plans

rick_chasey

Hi all

I imagine this question has been covered *so many times* but a search didn't bring anything up so I shall ask and if it has, you can just point me to the right thread.

Background: used to cycle to work every day (30 mins each way - super high intensity sprints of c.30s-3mins) and that kept me fit enough to be reasonable on the Sunday club run. (would end up doing around 5,000-6,000km a year or so - pretty fit)

For just over two years I have no longer done this as I now have a long train commute, and now a kid to look after.

Realistically I have around 30-40 mins (max) in the evenings to smash out a ride after dinner, so I need to make the most. I can possibly get out for longer (1-3hrs max) on say, every other weekend. I don't want to do much more than 3 rides in a working week as I would like to actually see my wife.

As such, I really need to max out those short rides.

I don't have a cycle computer but I have a phone that can buzz at regular intervals - so my question is:

Are there any decent basic training plans that will help me max out those 30-40 min evening rides?

The objective is to get up to a level of fitness where completing say a 2-3hr club run is no bother and I can even have a little fun on it.

bobmcstuff

Personally, in that period of time I would be looking at turbo training... I usually do ~3.5hr per week turbo through the winter then mostly drop it in the summer. I use TrainerRoad, which has also has two "very time crunched" options where the workouts are 30 or 45 minutes, and fit into 1.5-4 hours a week depending which option you go for https://www.trainerroad.com/cycling-enthusiast-training-plans .

But if you don't want to turbo, you could do worse than looking at how those plans are structured and copying the principles.

At that low volume, the thing which will have the biggest impact is making sure you are consistently doing the rides because losing one will make a huge difference (just in terms of % time lost).

If it were me and I were riding entirely outside, I think I'd do one a week which was shorter intervals and one which was longer intervals, then the other can be less structured or a copy. For the shorter interval session, I'd try and find a short hill or stretch where I could do 2-5 min efforts at VO2 and basically fit as many if them in as possible in 45 mins with rest in between. Then the second session would have longer intervals, probably 2x15 or 3x10 min with warm up, rest, and cool down for 45 mins total.

Then the third midweek ride I'd either do one of them again, or maybe just ride with a few sprints thrown in. Good to mix it up to stop it getting boring. Kinda depends what your club rides are like too.

daniel_b

Can only echo what Bob says, Trainer road is custom made for people in this situation.

rick_chasey

Is trainer road a turbo thing?

bobmcstuff

Yes. There are other programs like Sufferfest and Zwift, they're all a bit different so possibly depends who you are.

Turbo is just a really good way to get the most out of your time - I reckon 45 mins on the turbo is worth an hour outside. There's no coasting, no traffic lights, no cars pulling out, and no trying to find the right stretch of road for your interval. Also less setup (if you can have the turbo permanently set up) - just get your kit on and start. No getting the bike out, getting all your winter gear on etc etc.

rick_chasey

Yeah thing is I have nowhere to put it except for in the garden and that would wake the baby up.

I guess I just need a bike speedo to time my efforts.

bobmcstuff

Well yeah then in that case I would look at some routes which let you get intervals in easily. If you had a Garmin you can make workouts which do the timing part for you - i.e., hit the lap button to start the intervals when you get to the right stretch of road and away you go.

I'd prefer to just have the intervals based on geographical markers though if possible cos it's less faff - like I know it's 2k between this junction and that junction so I will go flat out for the ~3-4 minutes. Difficulty there is getting a sensible rest period before you do it all again.

I'd still recommend 1 workout focussed on VO2 Max and one longer intervals (around threshold) just to make the most of the time. That's what most structured training systems suggest so it's not just me.

I find that VO2 work has the quickest impact on my fitness, the issue is it is hard work (mentally as well as physically) and you can't keep doing a lot of it for a long time. It's also that short term power you need for closing gaps and not getting dropped, you can cover for quite a lot of other problems if you can make sure you're always in the wheel. Then the longer threshold ones help with endurance i.e., ability to keep working hard for a decent length of time.

Both of which probably quite useful for club rides.

rick_chasey

Thanks. Is vo2 max stuff just nailing it for 1-5 mins, resting for not very long and nailing it again?

I’ve never really had to do training I always used to just nail the short rides and enjoy mucking about with club mates on the long rides.

bobmcstuff

Pretty much, especially if you've no other gauge. VO2 intervals should be <5 mins, 5 being the upper end. On the plans I've done the rest periods usually start out fairly generous since its key that you can complete the intervals, so you want to be well recovered before you start. Then they get shorter as you get fitter.

Cos you'll be doing it all on feel I reckon just do each interval at the pace you think you can sustain for that length of time. Same for the longer threshold ones. No point overthinking it. Like I said consistency is going to be important cos each ride is quite a big % of your total volume, so losing it makes a big difference.

I've recycled all of this from the trainerroad ask a cycling coach podcast and from looking at how their plans are structured. Plus other ones like the Carmicheal time crunched cyclist book (I know he's hated now due to the Armstrong connection but the time crunched book is pretty good). In case anyone else questions it...

rick_chasey

Cheers that makes sense.

rick_chasey

bobmcstuff said:

Pretty much, especially if you've no other gauge. VO2 intervals should be <5 mins, 5 being the upper end. On the plans I've done the rest periods usually start out fairly generous since its key that you can complete the intervals, so you want to be well recovered before you start. Then they get shorter as you get fitter.

..</p>

This is quite interesting, on reflection.

I was also on the assumption that it was important to build up the fatigue so by the final few efforts your body was absolutely screaming just to even get close to completing it.

That's certainly how I treated my commute. Sprint, lights, sprint lights, spriiint aarrgh it's green keep going aaaargh, etc.

bobmcstuff

It's because you're trying to actually hit VO2 max. If you can't hit it, you end up doing essentially very short threshold intervals, which isn't the same thing.

Actual sprints are a bit different, a lot of those seem to be repeated sprints to fatigue. I'd have to read up on why though cos I've never really bothered looking. And theres a whole load of workouts which are sprints followed by threshold or slightly sub-threshold work (which is supposed to be about race situations). This was probably closer to what you were doing...

rick_chasey

Got it. So, in the context of *very* limited time to train, that's probably less effective than being fresh for each balls out effort.

bobmcstuff

https://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/plans/166-time-crunch-30-low-volume

If you take a little look at those workouts, the white line is your FTP so anything over the line is above threshold work and anything a lot above the line is either VO2 or sprints (the shorter much higher one).

The ones like Huffaker-5 is what I was getting at

As you can see these are pretty short intervals (around 120%) but there is a good rest period in between, so you come into the next set relatively OK. I personally find this type of work really productive for getting improvements on the road - probably the fastest way for me to feel good on club rides is to smash loads of VO2 intervals for a few weeks. But as I said before it isn't really very sustainable, VO2 intervals are quite punishing and if you do only VO2 workouts for a while it gets quite difficult. Possibly on 1.5-2.5 hours a week it would be OK though.

Then the other sort I was suggesting would be more like this:


where you are up around threshold for longer periods (this particular one is 2x7, but if you were doing a 45 min ride you would stretch it out)

A sprint workout would be more like this, with sets of short 150%+ intervals



Then the other type I mentioned with a sprint or VO2 section followed by a threshold/sweetspot interval look like this:

This is probably more like the sprint from the lights commuting type thing.

Obviously on the road you're going to be somewhat limited by the terrain, traffic, lights, junctions etc.. When I lived in Aberdeen I had a short city centre loop which had reps of a ~2 minute climb, which I just did full gas then coasted back down round a back road. It took a little while to find the right road to do it on though (like this https://www.strava.com/activities/221047575), and it wasn't particularly scientific - at the time I was just starting out with it and I was just trying to get the Strava climbing challenge... Worked well for my fitness though.

rick_chasey

Yeah so I did around four, 2 and a halfish minute big efforts (you know, the ones where you're feeling sick afterwards) and then finished with a 30s going as hard as possible untill you can't see in a 35 minute odd ride last night.

Forgot how awful it is when you're unfit; I don't mind feeling bad during the efforts but when you're unfit you feel awful for a long time afterwards.

bobmcstuff

Those are the ones

I did a 60 mins workout with 3 sets of 6 by 1 minute intervals with equal rest periods... It's one of the earlier and easier VO2 workouts in the plan, I think they get worse... I'm quite fit from doing Festive 500 though, so it was probably easier than it should have been.

DeVlaeminck

I know this isn't answering the question but have you thought about running ? 40 minutes can be a decent run but making it a decent training ride would take all the fun out of riding for me. Then throw in a long run at the weekend - you could actually get a decent level of run fitness on that and if you have a local Park Run then a Saturday jog down to that, run and jog back could give you a competitive element. Maybe join a club for the social element ?

Anyway if it has to be cycling obviously it has to be high intensity - that means a warm up of say 10 minutes - so a 40 minute session would give you 50% more possible actual training than a 30 minute session. I'd be looking at doing 1-2 extended intervals of 10-30 minutes in one session and maybe a set of minute on minute off in the other. A lot depends on if these are road or turbo sessions. If road it may depend on what roads you have near your house. So I have a hill that takes maybe 50 seconds to sprint up that I work into a roughly 1km circuit - the rest of the circuit is easy recovery normally but I could attack the hill at say 90% and ride the rest of the circuit a bit harder which may be a)less unpleasant b) more applicable to getting fit for a club ride. My local flat 10 minute interval road has been ruined by the installation of traffic lights and a pedestrian crossing - so if I want a flat extended interval I have to ride out a lot further - things like that may dictate what you do.

Fwiw one of my best seasons was off the back of 2 hard turbo sessions in the garage in the week over winter (typically 2*20 done when the kids had gone to bed), a long ride at the weekend (typically 60 miles solo TT effort on road bike OR a hard group ride) and a recovery ride outdoors midweek. That's not a huge amount more than you are proposing - OK it's a bit more but I was race fit off that getting top 10s (I'm not a sprinter) and I won the club evening TT series which might not be much for some but for me was decent !

rick_chasey

Yeah you’re right. Bottom line is I loathe running and I love cycling.

webboo

I do several short road workouts based on things from Pete Reads Turbo training book.
10 min warm up then 15 secs hard 15 secs easy x 3 x 5 x 7 x 9 x 11 with one minutes rest between sets then ride home.
Again 10 min warm up the one minute on one minute off x 10
10 min warm up 20 secs hard 40 secs easy x 5 then 2 mins easy then repeat 2 more times.
10 warm up 5 mins on 1 min off x 8 or more if you have time or inclination.
Doing a couple of these 2 or 3 times a week then a longer ride seems to keep me in reasonable cycling shape
Obviously the intensity of the interval is relative to how long it is.

timothyw

Hasn't been mentioned but any chance of doing some kind of lunch session at work? Local spin class or something like that?

Or a quick 5k run?

Other option is club run with the slow group/social ride with a friend/solo ride at weekends? You can still enjoy a ride at an easy pace ;-)

Has to be said I don't think I could see myself taking any job I couldn't cycle to most of the time, simply because it's so hard with family life to fit in rides the rest of the time (as in, lucky to get one a week right now!). Still, I suppose needs must.

rick_chasey

Yeah lunch mid week training would be an option but a) it’s indoor and b) it’s amazingly expensive.

Currently recovering from unforeseen surgery anyway so it will all have to wait.

Thanks guys

rick_chasey

Anyone had any experience in recovering from a standard appendectomy?

N0bodyOfTheGoat

https://whatsonzwift.com/workouts/less-than-an-hour-to-burn/emilys-short-mix/ is great for a 30min workout, that could be applied to outdoor riding with a power meter if you know your FTP ballpark... The 9min, third block of work is brutal if your legs aren't feeling too fresh!