Things you have recently learnt
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kingstongraham said:
Tesla is the worlds largest car company by market capitalisation, 60% bigger than the second largest, Toyota.
WTF?
Giga Shanghai, with another in Germany on the way.
Yep incredible, Steve Eisman (The big Short fame) even went the direction of the film with Tesla. I must admit I thought the repair side of the cars would be a problem with the lack of dealerships as apposed to other manufacturers.
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Musk is now 4th richest in the world.kingstongraham said:Tesla is the worlds largest car company by market capitalisation, 60% bigger than the second largest, Toyota.
WTF?0 -
Toyota sell way more cars in China each year than Tesla have sold since they were founded, and anywhere in the world. And they aren't exactly slouches on the electric cars.focuszing723 said:kingstongraham said:Tesla is the worlds largest car company by market capitalisation, 60% bigger than the second largest, Toyota.
WTF?
Giga Shanghai, with another in Germany on the way.
Yep incredible, Steve Eisman (The big Short fame) even went the direction of the film with Tesla. I must admit I thought the repair side of the cars would be a problem with the lack of dealerships as apposed to other manufacturers.0 -
Market capitalisation is based on share price. It could halve tomorrow.
In fact Elon has done just that with just a single tweet in the recent past.
Be as well going to Ladbrookes without inside info.
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Overvalued ;-).kingstongraham said:Tesla is the worlds largest car company by market capitalisation, 60% bigger than the second largest, Toyota.
WTF?0 -
Have always thought the long term plan was providing chargers and batteries to other manufacturers. There will always be fewer Teslas on the road than, say, Audis or Toyotas, and that's the big opportunity if you have the best battery.rick_chasey said:
Overvalued ;-).kingstongraham said:Tesla is the worlds largest car company by market capitalisation, 60% bigger than the second largest, Toyota.
WTF?0 -
Yes and autonomous transport technology. Also, I know the same has been said 'overvalued' for Microsoft, Google and Amazon during their meteoric rise.
What counts is mass production of the latest battery technology at the best base price. Hence the Giga factories and potential market share for affordable long range EV's.
All we need now is Cern to understand how to make cheap abundant electricity.0 -
Whilst I expect batteries to win the small car market, it is worth noting that Toyota has a hydrogen car, and hydrogen is coming soon.0
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If I was running hedgie money I would be paying for my hefty short position on it right now (and probably crying as a result).First.Aspect said:
Have always thought the long term plan was providing chargers and batteries to other manufacturers. There will always be fewer Teslas on the road than, say, Audis or Toyotas, and that's the big opportunity if you have the best battery.rick_chasey said:
Overvalued ;-).kingstongraham said:Tesla is the worlds largest car company by market capitalisation, 60% bigger than the second largest, Toyota.
WTF?0 -
I thought the batteries were PanasonicFirst.Aspect said:
Have always thought the long term plan was providing chargers and batteries to other manufacturers. There will always be fewer Teslas on the road than, say, Audis or Toyotas, and that's the big opportunity if you have the best battery.rick_chasey said:
Overvalued ;-).kingstongraham said:Tesla is the worlds largest car company by market capitalisation, 60% bigger than the second largest, Toyota.
WTF?0 -
The infrastructure will be a challenge but it is for electric charge points too. That's another area where Tesla have excelled.TheBigBean said:Whilst I expect batteries to win the small car market, it is worth noting that Toyota has a hydrogen car, and hydrogen is coming soon.
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Well you could say that about many companies.rick_chasey said:They are very good at fudging their books....
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What is the cash cow? Only they don't seem to make many profits and when they do and you look at what generated it, it's rarely selling cars or batteries, it's normally some fat "regulatory credit" or fannying about with receivables to window dress the results.focuszing723 said:
Well you could say that about many companies. Tesla have a cash cow at the moment though.rick_chasey said:They are very good at fudging their books....
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Look at the scale of the new factory in Germany when complete. Incredible really for such a new automotive company, started 2003!0 -
Is this another fantasy image of the factory? A bit like the one where they produced a photo like this and then ended up erecting massive tents?focuszing723 said:
Look at the scale of the new factory in Germany when complete. Incredible really for such a new automotive company, started 2003!0 -
Another pump at the petrol station. It is true that for anyone with a drive or garage, supplying an electric is easier and cheaper. That's why I expect it to win the small car market; however, vehicles in continous use and heavy vehicles will do better with hydrogen.focuszing723 said:
The infrastructure will be a challenge but it is for electric charge points too. That's another area where Tesla have excelled.TheBigBean said:Whilst I expect batteries to win the small car market, it is worth noting that Toyota has a hydrogen car, and hydrogen is coming soon.
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No idea.... Looks like Panasonic make the cells and Tesla package them into the batteries.surrey_commuter said:
I thought the batteries were PanasonicFirst.Aspect said:
Have always thought the long term plan was providing chargers and batteries to other manufacturers. There will always be fewer Teslas on the road than, say, Audis or Toyotas, and that's the big opportunity if you have the best battery.rick_chasey said:
Overvalued ;-).kingstongraham said:Tesla is the worlds largest car company by market capitalisation, 60% bigger than the second largest, Toyota.
WTF?0 -
I expect electric will be just fine for >90% of drivers. What's the average mileage ? 250 miles a week ? Already you can get cars that would only need one charge each week.TheBigBean said:
Another pump at the petrol station. It is true that for anyone with a drive or garage, supplying an electric is easier and cheaper. That's why I expect it to win the small car market; however, vehicles in continous use and heavy vehicles will do better with hydrogen.focuszing723 said:
The infrastructure will be a challenge but it is for electric charge points too. That's another area where Tesla have excelled.TheBigBean said:Whilst I expect batteries to win the small car market, it is worth noting that Toyota has a hydrogen car, and hydrogen is coming soon.
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I just can't see their competitive advantage other than first mover which would disappear overnight with a tech jump.First.Aspect said:
No idea.... Looks like Panasonic make the cells and Tesla package them into the batteries.surrey_commuter said:
I thought the batteries were PanasonicFirst.Aspect said:
Have always thought the long term plan was providing chargers and batteries to other manufacturers. There will always be fewer Teslas on the road than, say, Audis or Toyotas, and that's the big opportunity if you have the best battery.rick_chasey said:
Overvalued ;-).kingstongraham said:Tesla is the worlds largest car company by market capitalisation, 60% bigger than the second largest, Toyota.
WTF?0 -
Genuine question - aren't they quite advanced in the autonomous driving sector?surrey_commuter said:
I just can't see their competitive advantage other than first mover which would disappear overnight with a tech jump.First.Aspect said:
No idea.... Looks like Panasonic make the cells and Tesla package them into the batteries.surrey_commuter said:
I thought the batteries were PanasonicFirst.Aspect said:
Have always thought the long term plan was providing chargers and batteries to other manufacturers. There will always be fewer Teslas on the road than, say, Audis or Toyotas, and that's the big opportunity if you have the best battery.rick_chasey said:
Overvalued ;-).kingstongraham said:Tesla is the worlds largest car company by market capitalisation, 60% bigger than the second largest, Toyota.
WTF?0 -
Possibly, but one of the big boys will leave them in the dust. Google probably, if all the testing around San Francisco I saw on holiday last year is indicative.TheBigBean said:
Genuine question - aren't they quite advanced in the autonomous driving sector?surrey_commuter said:
I just can't see their competitive advantage other than first mover which would disappear overnight with a tech jump.First.Aspect said:
No idea.... Looks like Panasonic make the cells and Tesla package them into the batteries.surrey_commuter said:
I thought the batteries were PanasonicFirst.Aspect said:
Have always thought the long term plan was providing chargers and batteries to other manufacturers. There will always be fewer Teslas on the road than, say, Audis or Toyotas, and that's the big opportunity if you have the best battery.rick_chasey said:
Overvalued ;-).kingstongraham said:Tesla is the worlds largest car company by market capitalisation, 60% bigger than the second largest, Toyota.
WTF?
In terms of tech jumps for batteries - yes, but you can say the same for lots of things. The barrier to entry and inertia for any big sea change once the technology is more widely adopted are other factors to consider. My view is that this means that most likely whatever improvements come along won't be seismic, but incremental and scooped up by whoever is already in the market.
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If they actually become a software company in the autonomous driving sector, it makes a bit more sense. Looks like they are priced as if they already made the breakthrough though.0
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In which case Rick is correct.kingstongraham said:If they actually become a software company in the autonomous driving sector, it makes a bit more sense. Looks like they are priced as if they already made the breakthrough though.
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There competition is not just Google, it is also the existing car manufacturersFirst.Aspect said:
Possibly, but one of the big boys will leave them in the dust. Google probably, if all the testing around San Francisco I saw on holiday last year is indicative.TheBigBean said:
Genuine question - aren't they quite advanced in the autonomous driving sector?surrey_commuter said:
I just can't see their competitive advantage other than first mover which would disappear overnight with a tech jump.First.Aspect said:
No idea.... Looks like Panasonic make the cells and Tesla package them into the batteries.surrey_commuter said:
I thought the batteries were PanasonicFirst.Aspect said:
Have always thought the long term plan was providing chargers and batteries to other manufacturers. There will always be fewer Teslas on the road than, say, Audis or Toyotas, and that's the big opportunity if you have the best battery.rick_chasey said:
Overvalued ;-).kingstongraham said:Tesla is the worlds largest car company by market capitalisation, 60% bigger than the second largest, Toyota.
WTF?
In terms of tech jumps for batteries - yes, but you can say the same for lots of things. The barrier to entry and inertia for any big sea change once the technology is more widely adopted are other factors to consider. My view is that this means that most likely whatever improvements come along won't be seismic, but incremental and scooped up by whoever is already in the market.0 -
Look, equity valuations across the board are nuts and totally divorced of reality.First.Aspect said:
In which case Rick is correct.kingstongraham said:If they actually become a software company in the autonomous driving sector, it makes a bit more sense. Looks like they are priced as if they already made the breakthrough though.
The entire investment industry is sitting there scratching their head and a few smarter people are arguing with each other on why that is.
So saying a car company that is valued as the biggest in the world yet sells a fraction of the next biggest car company is overvalued - one that has been on one of the most remarkable runs in terms of valuation ever - is not massively sticking my neck out.
Then again, 'value' investing has been dying a death for the past 5 years and this year is especially brutal.0 -
Yeah that's a fair point.TheBigBean said:
Another pump at the petrol station. It is true that for anyone with a drive or garage, supplying an electric is easier and cheaper. That's why I expect it to win the small car market; however, vehicles in continous use and heavy vehicles will do better with hydrogen.focuszing723 said:
The infrastructure will be a challenge but it is for electric charge points too. That's another area where Tesla have excelled.TheBigBean said:Whilst I expect batteries to win the small car market, it is worth noting that Toyota has a hydrogen car, and hydrogen is coming soon.
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I think I heard Tesla suggest they plan to go it alone with their own new chemistry cell.First.Aspect said:
No idea.... Looks like Panasonic make the cells and Tesla package them into the batteries.surrey_commuter said:
I thought the batteries were PanasonicFirst.Aspect said:
Have always thought the long term plan was providing chargers and batteries to other manufacturers. There will always be fewer Teslas on the road than, say, Audis or Toyotas, and that's the big opportunity if you have the best battery.rick_chasey said:
Overvalued ;-).kingstongraham said:Tesla is the worlds largest car company by market capitalisation, 60% bigger than the second largest, Toyota.
WTF?rick_chasey said:
Is this another fantasy image of the factory? A bit like the one where they produced a photo like this and then ended up erecting massive tents?focuszing723 said:
Look at the scale of the new factory in Germany when complete. Incredible really for such a new automotive company, started 2003!
Current groundwork for the German factory. I would get your scepticism if they didn't have products which weren't in demand.0 -
Not disputing that they have a product that is in demand, just whether it makes sense that they are valued at more than Toyota, VW and Ford. Combined.1
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Actually that does sound nuts, even considering potential markets. I still want a new Tesla Roadster though.kingstongraham said:Not disputing that they have a product that is in demand, just whether it makes sense that they are valued at more than Toyota, VW and Ford. Combined.
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