Forum home Road cycling forum Road general

modern bike maintenance

kingrollokingrollo Posts: 3,147
edited September 2019 in Road general
Have a bit of a dispute with the retailer and supplier of my carbon bike.

It regularly creaks (loudly) supplier reckons this is down to routine maintenance. Ive been cycling for 30 years and whilst not not the greatest mechinic - I do most stuff myself - replace chain \ cassette regular lubing of chain - keeping the bike generally clean.

Each time the bike goes back I am told it is something simple, saddle, loose through axles, grease contact points - the creaking then goes for a few weeks - but then returns - I try what shop has told me without effect. It has a press fit BB which has been replaced and tightened

My own belief is there is something fundamentally wrong with the frame - supplier says I need to educate myself with modern bike maintenance - find the cause of the creak, grease it - do this as often as needed.

So is modern bike maintenance the cure here - or is my hunch about the frame correct - in your opinion of course !!!
«1

Posts

  • imposter2.0imposter2.0 Posts: 10,854
    You haven't said what bike/frame - but if you feel your frame is defective and the shop says it isn't, then it's probably up to you to be more specific about which part or area of the frame is defective and why..
  • kingrollokingrollo Posts: 3,147
    Imposter wrote:
    You haven't said what bike/frame - but if you feel your frame is defective and the shop says it isn't, then it's probably up to you to be more specific about which part or area of the frame is defective and why..

    I don't want to yet name the brand as this may end up in the small claims court.

    My suspicion is the BB fitting area is slightly of and this works lose - giving me the creak (shop deny this) - also as my best bike it only gets used at weekends - due to il health this is probably around 50 miles per week tops - if everything is working lose to this mileage is this correct ? - or is something fundamentally wrong.

    I took it to what I thought was an independent bike shop. Who greased and tightened everything - and said 'if that creaks now its a frame problem' - Supplier then phoned shop - and when I spoke to shop again he denied having said this.
  • To be honest kingrollo my carbon bike has had a creak front the front end since day one, have just learned to live with it. It is circa 5 years old now and has done many miles with no detrimental affect.

    As I am happy with it and not planning small claims it is an Orbea.
  • imposter2.0imposter2.0 Posts: 10,854
    kingrollo wrote:
    I don't want to yet name the brand as this may end up in the small claims court.

    Not sure I get that. Naming the brand is unlikely to have any effect whatsoever on a claim. Knowing the brand name will, however, probably encourage more people with the same brand to offer their experiences, which may or may not be useful to your case in such a claim..
  • kingrollokingrollo Posts: 3,147
    Imposter wrote:
    kingrollo wrote:
    I don't want to yet name the brand as this may end up in the small claims court.

    Not sure I get that. Naming the brand is unlikely to have any effect whatsoever on a claim. Knowing the brand name will, however, probably encourage more people with the same brand to offer their experiences, which may or may not be useful to your case in such a claim..

    ok - on your head be it

    Kuota Khydra DI2
  • imposter2.0imposter2.0 Posts: 10,854
    kingrollo wrote:
    ok - on your head be it

    what?
  • kingrollokingrollo Posts: 3,147
    To be honest kingrollo my carbon bike has had a creak front the front end since day one, have just learned to live with it. It is circa 5 years old now and has done many miles with no detrimental affect.

    As I am happy with it and not planning small claims it is an Orbea.

    Perhaps my creak is louder !!!
  • kingrollokingrollo Posts: 3,147
    Imposter wrote:
    kingrollo wrote:
    ok - on your head be it

    what?

    Humour
  • imposter2.0imposter2.0 Posts: 10,854
    kingrollo wrote:
    Imposter wrote:
    kingrollo wrote:
    ok - on your head be it

    what?

    Humour

    Right. Anyway, if you're going to build a case for small claims, then the first thing I'd do is get a third party inspection organised, preferably with a shop which has a reputation/understanding of press fit..
  • redvisionredvision Posts: 2,543
    Take it this is the same bike you asked for advice on earlier this summer?
    viewtopic.php?f=40013&t=13106140&hilit=Kuota

    Tbh if more than one shop can't solve the creak then i would have thought it may be a defect but surely the mechanics would have spotted this. The fact they haven't would suggest the chances of success in the small claims court is not good.

    I would bite the bullet and just install a praxis works bb or similar, although I realise they don't always result in creak free riding.

    This was announced at eurobike
    https://www.bikeradar.com/news/cane-cre ... m-bracket/
  • keef66keef66 Posts: 13,286
    My carbon bike with press-fit BB is utterly silent. I wouldn't be happy if it creaked.

    On the other hand I live on a hill that's popular with local cyclists, and I'd say about one in five of the carbon bikes I see going up are emitting some kind of creak. Some are making such a racket I cannot believe they are structurally sound.

    You shouldn't have to regularly strip your bike down and grease everything just to keep it quiet. I suspect something is not quite right. However with a carbon frame, identifying the cause of a creak can be notoriously difficult.
  • veronese68veronese68 Posts: 22,375 Lives Here
    kingrollo wrote:
    Each time the bike goes back I am told it is something simple, saddle, loose through axles, grease contact points - the creaking then goes for a few weeks - but then returns - I try what shop has told me without effect. It has a press fit BB which has been replaced and tightened
    So do you think they are tightening the bottom bracket every time and not telling you? If that is the case I'd say something is amiss, proving that is the case would have to be your next step.
    If fixing something different is genuinely fixing it every time I'd say it's not the frame at fault.
  • keef66keef66 Posts: 13,286
    Is it the same creak every time? If it was thru axles / BB / saddle rails, they'd all make subtly different noises at different times. Saddle rails for instance wouldn't creak if you were pedalling out of the saddle.

    I still think the BB is the likely culprit given your original description of the first BB virtually falling out when disassembled. And in which case it's more likely the BB shell has been manufactured slightly oversize, than the pressfit BB was too small.
  • Should be silent if everything is set up properly and youre not a monster.

    Where do you live? If local I’ll check your BB and headset and see if there’s anything obvious.
  • kingrollokingrollo Posts: 3,147
    keef66 wrote:
    Is it the same creak every time? If it was thru axles / BB / saddle rails, they'd all make subtly different noises at different times. Saddle rails for instance wouldn't creak if you were pedalling out of the saddle.

    I still think the BB is the likely culprit given your original description of the first BB virtually falling out when disassembled. And in which case it's more likely the BB shell has been manufactured slightly oversize, than the pressfit BB was too small.


    Yes it always the same creak - have a listen here - Mind you some people like the noise some free hubs like - so maybe this is kouta 'sound' and I am just old fashioned - so for £3.5k you can have a bike that sounds like this !!!! (any ideas what it is ??)

    https://drive.google.com/open?id=1kFL29 ... 9o3ctHVv8E
  • lesfirthlesfirth Posts: 1,010
    kingrollo wrote:
    keef66 wrote:
    Is it the same creak every time? If it was thru axles / BB / saddle rails, they'd all make subtly different noises at different times. Saddle rails for instance wouldn't creak if you were pedalling out of the saddle.

    I still think the BB is the likely culprit given your original description of the first BB virtually falling out when disassembled. And in which case it's more likely the BB shell has been manufactured slightly oversize, than the pressfit BB was too small.


    Yes it always the same creak - have a listen here - Mind you some people like the noise some free hubs like - so maybe this is kouta 'sound' and I am just old fashioned - so for £3.5k you can have a bike that sounds like this !!!! (any ideas what it is ??)

    https://drive.google.com/open?id=1kFL29 ... 9o3ctHVv8E

    Bl00dy hell, Kingrollo , that is more than a creek! No one with half an ounce of mechanical sympathy could stand that.
    IMHO creeks in bottom brackets are caused by something moving that should not. Pulling them to pieces and greasing everything makes it easier for the bit that is moving to move so it moves more easily and no longer creeks. This is fixing the symptom and not the cause and the noise is soon back. The problem might be fixed by bonding/glueing together the bits that are moving that should not, but on a new bike I would not stand for that.
    That bike is not fit for purpose. Any so called bike mechanic who says that's OK is incompetent.
  • pilot_petepilot_pete Posts: 1,861
    Is it in every gear combo, or only when going uphill in low gears? I ask because I’ve just found my creak was not BB but rear cassette! It was only in the lower gears (which are all riveted together on a carrier) when really pushing going uphill. It was a similar sound but nowhere near as loud as yours. Tightened to spec but this was allowing movement, tightened a bit tighter and problem sorted.

    PP
  • kingrollokingrollo Posts: 3,147
    Pilot Pete wrote:
    Is it in every gear combo, or only when going uphill in low gears? I ask because I’ve just found my creak was not BB but rear cassette! It was only in the lower gears (which are all riveted together on a carrier) when really pushing going uphill. It was a similar sound but nowhere near as loud as yours. Tightened to spec but this was allowing movement, tightened a bit tighter and problem sorted.

    PP

    Its only when going up steep hills - typically I am in the lower gears when going uphill !!!! - - How do I tighten the rear cassette - or should I purchase a new cassette ?

    its been back to kuota - who inspected\removed the bb but found no problems with it - bikes comes back no creaking for a few weeks - then it returns.
    took it to lbs - who removed bb and re seated it with some bonding agents - also said they thought the problem was a loose rear through axle - fine for 1st ride - but now creaking again - through axle seems tight enough

    in total 3 different people have looked over the bike (shop purchased from, kuota, lbs) all have inspected the BB - on two occasions the bike has come back temporarily cured (once it came back worse - but shop were adamant it wasn't creaking on test ride)
  • kingrollo wrote:
    Pilot Pete wrote:
    Is it in every gear combo, or only when going uphill in low gears? I ask because I’ve just found my creak was not BB but rear cassette! It was only in the lower gears (which are all riveted together on a carrier) when really pushing going uphill. It was a similar sound but nowhere near as loud as yours. Tightened to spec but this was allowing movement, tightened a bit tighter and problem sorted.

    PP

    Its only when going up steep hills - typically I am in the lower gears when going uphill !!!! - - How do I tighten the rear cassette - or should I purchase a new cassette ?

    its been back to kuota - who inspected\removed the bb but found no problems with it - bikes comes back no creaking for a few weeks - then it returns.
    took it to lbs - who removed bb and re seated it with some bonding agents - also said they thought the problem was a loose rear through axle - fine for 1st ride - but now creaking again - through axle seems tight enough

    in total 3 different people have looked over the bike (shop purchased from, kuota, lbs) all have inspected the BB - on two occasions the bike has come back temporarily cured (once it came back worse - but shop were adamant it wasn't creaking on test ride)
    cleats.
  • Process of elimination. Try with different wheels, pedals, saddle etc.

    Chances are the shop are not riding the bike up steep hills .
    AFC Mercia women - sign for us
  • have the BB taken out and get the shell measured properly, not with a random set of calipers.
    The problem with press fit is the shell is often aluminium, and thin walled to reduce the mass, yet the fit for bearings is typically specified for steel.
    Of course, it could be the crank axle, if this is slightly bent or their is too much run-out between the bearing seats on the shaft then it will wobble in the bearings, pumping out any grease and leaving you with the sounds you describe.
    Tighten the chainwheel bolts while you are at it.
  • kingrollokingrollo Posts: 3,147
    Its not the cleats as I have used these on other bikes - and one shop replicated the creak whilst riding in trainers - its also on its 2nd set of pedals.

    Anyway we appeared to have gone ever so slightly off topic - What level of maintenance is required to keep a carbon bike, Disc, through axles , creak free -
    Kuota are saying it is my lack of maintenance which is making the bike creak. Basically I clean the bike - and clean and lube the chain - and take my bikes to a shop once or year for a full service - What level of maintenance are other owners doing ?

    its my best bike so doesn't go out in the wet ...
  • keef66keef66 Posts: 13,286
    That's pretty much all I do with my carbon bike, although I do the annual service bit myself. That includes cleaning / regreasing and adjusting the Shimano hubs, trickling a bit of oil into the freehub internals, and whipping out the seatpost for a wipe down and fresh carbon paste. Pressfit BB is still fine after 6 years. Pedals get fresh grease occasionally (5 years?)
  • Ben6899Ben6899 Posts: 7,275
    kingrollo wrote:
    ... Its been back to kuota - who inspected\removed the bb but found no problems with it - bikes comes back no creaking for a few weeks - then it returns.
    took it to lbs - who removed bb and re seated it with some bonding agents...

    What does Kuota's "it's fine" actually mean though? Within their manufacturing tolerances? And are they appropriate for pressfit applications or wide enough to allow more QC passes?

    Grease and "bonding agents" applied to the mating surfaces merely hide the symptom and potentially worsen the whole situation.

    The creaking in your video is unacceptable.
    Ben

    Bikes: Donhou DSS4 Custom | Condor Italia RC | Gios Megalite | Dolan Preffisio | Giant Bowery '76
    Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ben_h_ppcc/
    Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/
  • slowbikeslowbike Posts: 8,477
    pedals?

    I only say this because my clicking bottom bracket turned out to be a clicking pedal ... easily sorted by swapping the offending pedal with the one off the TT bike - on which I can't hear the pedal clicking due to the wind noise! ;)

    but yes - truly horrible noise and something the shop should be able to troubleshoot....
  • kingrollokingrollo Posts: 3,147
    slowbike wrote:
    pedals?

    I only say this because my clicking bottom bracket turned out to be a clicking pedal ... easily sorted by swapping the offending pedal with the one off the TT bike - on which I can't hear the pedal clicking due to the wind noise! ;)

    but yes - truly horrible noise and something the shop should be able to troubleshoot....

    Ive changed the pedals.
  • chainset
  • keef66keef66 Posts: 13,286
    Company net-nanny wouldn't let me view your video so I've just had a quick look / listen on the iPhone. Jesus Christ! It sounds like a tea clipper under full sail.

    I cannot believe they think that lacklustre maintenance is in some way to blame for that racket. Something wrong there, and they should be fixing it or giving you a different bike / frame...
  • pilot_petepilot_pete Posts: 1,861
    kingrollo wrote:
    Pilot Pete wrote:
    Is it in every gear combo, or only when going uphill in low gears? I ask because I’ve just found my creak was not BB but rear cassette! It was only in the lower gears (which are all riveted together on a carrier) when really pushing going uphill. It was a similar sound but nowhere near as loud as yours. Tightened to spec but this was allowing movement, tightened a bit tighter and problem sorted.

    PP

    Its only when going up steep hills - typically I am in the lower gears when going uphill !!!! - - How do I tighten the rear cassette - or should I purchase a new cassette ?

    its been back to kuota - who inspected\removed the bb but found no problems with it - bikes comes back no creaking for a few weeks - then it returns.
    took it to lbs - who removed bb and re seated it with some bonding agents - also said they thought the problem was a loose rear through axle - fine for 1st ride - but now creaking again - through axle seems tight enough

    in total 3 different people have looked over the bike (shop purchased from, kuota, lbs) all have inspected the BB - on two occasions the bike has come back temporarily cured (once it came back worse - but shop were adamant it wasn't creaking on test ride)

    You need a cassette lock ring tool to fit your cassette (Shimano/ SRAM or Campagnolo as appropriate). Something like this for about a fiver https://www.tredz.co.uk/.Ice-Toolz-Cassette-Lockring-Tool-with-Guide_31839.htm?sku=73012&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=google_shopping&gclid=CjwKCAjwq4fsBRBnEiwANTahcFEyTVIBB0qDA8wgb9wGM2jvHV3QEY_sv6VCKuwUQWUtmRMN0xM0khoC_NkQAvD_BwE and a suitable socket wrench or spanner to fit it. Remove your rear wheel, take out the axle/ quick release, pop the tool into the lock ring on the cassette and tighten it using a big (ideally quite long to get enough leverage) spanner or socket wrench.

    Quick test before you do this; put the bike into one of the gears where you get the creak (one of the 4 or so big cogs which are all on the same carrier). Put the front wheel up against a wall to stop the bike moving and then apply pressure on the pedal(s). Push hard, on and off the pedal. Mine made the same click/ creak when I did this. When in the smaller cogs it didn’t make the noise.

    As with your bike, BB had been out, cups out, all replaced with appropriate grease/ anti-seize to manufacturers spec all to no avail. Bearings felt completely normal with no discernible wear. Everything was tightened to spec.

    Your noise sounds too loud to be cleats or chainring bolts. I would check the cassette for tightness to start with and if that fails, check the freehub and rear wheel bearings.

    PP
  • kingrollo wrote:
    Anyway we appeared to have gone ever so slightly off topic - What level of maintenance is required to keep a carbon bike, Disc, through axles , creak free -
    Kuota are saying it is my lack of maintenance which is making the bike creak. Basically I clean the bike - and clean and lube the chain - and take my bikes to a shop once or year for a full service - What level of maintenance are other owners doing ?

    That's pretty much a standard level of maintenance as far as I'm concerned. I've never had a creaking bike doing only those things.
Sign In or Register to comment.