Slow and Fast-Twitch muscles

angrod

I've done some research about them, but everytime I wanna know "how to know which one you have", answers are very vague.
It's like you just train as usual, and one day you just know you're one or another.
So I'm wondering if anyone know how it works ?

Like is there a point where you're able to know ? For example when you're at a a certain level like Cat 3/2...
Or are there specific workouts you can do to have an idea ?
Maybe it just comes with time and experience ?

keef66

I think we all have both, but it's all about the proportion of slow to fast. I believe it is mainly down to genetics which is why the best sprinters are from, or descended from, the Carribbean. Remember watching a programme where Colin Jackson had a muscle biopsy to look at the fibres. Looked quite painful having a core taken out of his thigh TBH.

What possible use would you have for this information??

meursault

Slow twitch generally more used in endurance/low intensity. Fast twitch sprinting/High intensity.

fenix

I think you're overcomplicating this.

What are you best at ? What's your build. Do you race ?

angrod

keef66 wrote:

I think we all have both, but it's all about the proportion of slow to fast.

Yeah you're correct.

keef66 wrote:

What possible use would you have for this information??

I'm just currious to know.
It feels weird to not know how to measure that, but having people say at a certain point that they are more of an X type of rider.

I find it appealing too to know in which domain I may be better based on genetics.

angrod

Fenix wrote:

I think you're overcomplicating this.

What are you best at ? What's your build. Do you race ?

I don't race for now, I'm waiting for the next season, so i'm just training
I think it's too early for me too know.
All I can say is i'm more comfortable doing big efforts while seated, when I sprint, I'm able to sustain more power for a longer time if I sit after ~5 to 10sec. I have big thighs and calves too.

ugo.santalucia

You need a biopsy... it's going to be painful (as well as pointless)

zefs

Power curve can help determine that:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rq7VtyP8FkQ

Alex_Simmons/RST

Can do a reasonable job at estimating fibre type mix with (good) power meter data:
http://www.trainingandracingwithapowerm ... om_07.html
http://www.trainingandracingwithapowerm ... om_20.html

ric/rstsport

Angrod wrote:

I've done some research about them, but everytime I wanna know "how to know which one you have", answers are very vague.
It's like you just train as usual, and one day you just know you're one or another.
So I'm wondering if anyone know how it works ?

Like is there a point where you're able to know ? For example when you're at a a certain level like Cat 3/2...
Or are there specific workouts you can do to have an idea ?
Maybe it just comes with time and experience ?

If you really want to know what fibre types you have (or the % of each type) then you'll need muscle biopsies at various locations... However, as Alex mentions it can be estimated via power data.

On the other hand, the real question is why do you need to know? Is it curiousity, or are you, for e.g. trying to work out which aspect of the sport to compete in?

However, even without knowing what fibre type you have, you should be able to develop an idea of what type of cycling you're suited to relatively quickly. For e.g. i sprint poorly, my peak power is low. I need to ensure that i get in the break rather than leaving it to a sprint (in a road race). I've no idea what my fibre type make up is (although i can guess that i'm mainly slow twitch). However, even if you're a good road sprinter such as say Sagan, you're going to still be predominantly slowtwitch as you still have to do lots of endurance.

At a lower level it probably makes no difference.

angrod

zefs wrote:

Power curve can help determine that:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rq7VtyP8FkQ

Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:

Can do a reasonable job at estimating fibre type mix with (good) power meter data:
http://www.trainingandracingwithapowerm ... om_07.html
http://www.trainingandracingwithapowerm ... om_20.html

Interesting, thanks or the information, especially those 2 links !

Ric/RSTSport wrote:

If you really want to know what fibre types you have (or the % of each type) then you'll need muscle biopsies at various locations... However, as Alex mentions it can be estimated via power data.

On the other hand, the real question is why do you need to know? Is it curiousity, or are you, for e.g. trying to work out which aspect of the sport to compete in?

I really like the fact that some riders are more of a climber, more of a sprinter, etc...
So I'm pretty curious about what type of rider I could be.
As for which aspect to compete in, I know you just have to train everything. I don't want to fall in that catefory of riders that don't train what they are naturally good at enough, or train too much in their strenghs.
Although I hate endurance rides and sometimes replace an endurance ride with some long threshold session, I try to not do that too much.

imposter2.0

Angrod wrote:

I really like the fact that some riders are more of a climber, more of a sprinter, etc...
So I'm pretty curious about what type of rider I could be.

There's only one way to find out...

Angrod wrote:

Although I hate endurance rides and sometimes replace an endurance ride with some long threshold session, I try to not do that too much.

A 'long threshold session' is also, by definition, an endurance ride.

angrod

Imposter wrote:

A 'long threshold session' is also, by definition, an endurance ride.

Well it seems like some people don't consider 1h endurance, and some do. So I don't know.

imposter2.0

Angrod wrote:

Imposter wrote:

A 'long threshold session' is also, by definition, an endurance ride.

Well it seems like some people don't consider 1h endurance, and some do. So I don't know.

Anything over a couple of minutes (some would say a lot less than that) is endurance...

angrod

Imposter wrote:

Angrod wrote:

Imposter wrote:

A 'long threshold session' is also, by definition, an endurance ride.

Well it seems like some people don't consider 1h endurance, and some do. So I don't know.

Anything over a couple of minutes (some would say a lot less than that) is endurance...

hmmm ok

ric/rstsport

by the time you get to *90*-seconds the vast majority of energy required to fuel your effort is derived aerobically (i.e., endurance based).

ric/rstsport

Angrod wrote:

zefs wrote:

Power curve can help determine that:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rq7VtyP8FkQ

Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:

Can do a reasonable job at estimating fibre type mix with (good) power meter data:
http://www.trainingandracingwithapowerm ... om_07.html
http://www.trainingandracingwithapowerm ... om_20.html

Interesting, thanks or the information, especially those 2 links !

Ric/RSTSport wrote:

If you really want to know what fibre types you have (or the % of each type) then you'll need muscle biopsies at various locations... However, as Alex mentions it can be estimated via power data.

On the other hand, the real question is why do you need to know? Is it curiousity, or are you, for e.g. trying to work out which aspect of the sport to compete in?

I really like the fact that some riders are more of a climber, more of a sprinter, etc...
So I'm pretty curious about what type of rider I could be.
As for which aspect to compete in, I know you just have to train everything. I don't want to fall in that catefory of riders that don't train what they are naturally good at enough, or train too much in their strenghs.
Although I hate endurance rides and sometimes replace an endurance ride with some long threshold session, I try to not do that too much.

Fibre type doesn't really determine your physiological characteristics. Obviously, if you were mainly fast twitch you'd probably be better as a track sprinter. but once you're doing endurance efforts it's just not going to determine much/anything

ncr

Angrod wrote:

I've done some research about them, but everytime I wanna know "how to know which one you have", answers are very vague.
It's like you just train as usual, and one day you just know you're one or another.
So I'm wondering if anyone know how it works ?

Like is there a point where you're able to know ? For example when you're at a a certain level like Cat 3/2...
Or are there specific workouts you can do to have an idea ?
Maybe it just comes with time and experience ?

What scientists don't realize is, all cyclists are leaving the strongest and most fatigue resistant muscle in the lower body lying idle (Soleus 60-100 % slow twitch fiber content), when it could be used to apply maximal torque 12 - 2 o'c. This simple forward force generating technique which is far more powerful in pedalling (+Scott Rake aero bars) is all that's required before merging with the natural downward technique. https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=301204007442681

imposter2.0

ncr wrote:

What scientists don't realize is, all cyclists are leaving the strongest and most fatigue resistant muscle in the lower body lying idle (Soleus 60-100 % slow twitch fiber content), when it could be used to apply maximal torque 12 - 2 o'c. This simple forward force generating technique which is far more powerful in pedalling (+Scott Rake aero bars) is all that's required before merging with the natural downward technique. https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=301204007442681

If it was that good, we'd all be doing it...

acuna_read

ncr wrote:

What scientists don't realize is, all cyclists are leaving the strongest and most fatigue resistant muscle in the lower body lying idle (Soleus 60-100 % slow twitch fiber content), when it could be used to apply maximal torque 12 - 2 o'c. This simple forward force generating technique which is far more powerful in pedalling (+Scott Rake aero bars) is all that's required before merging with the natural downward technique. https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=301204007442681

This is correct with regards to soleus being an extremely important muscle within the lower leg for gait. When it comes to cycling your primarily looking at hip flexors and knee extensors being utilised so unsure of how much there is further to gain with soleus.

As to the OP undertaking a muscle biopsy is a gruesome thing to do. Very large needle more like a straw. Utilise the power method as above.