Best PM

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Comments

  • robert88
    robert88 Posts: 2,696
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Slowmart wrote:
    Does anyone remember the power and reach of unions,strikes making the news every week?

    Lowered tax on individuals, faced a Cabinet revolt over it.

    Privatisation, bought share ownership to the general population and at the same time reduce the need of the state tit nourishing overbloated and inefficient organisations , BR , BA , utility companies

    Recognised a transformation was needed in the labour markets as we needed to shift from manufacturing to service economy. Attracted foreign investment for setting up manufacturing bases in the UK, partly by legislation around unions.

    Let’s not forget, she was the first female PM, elected three times by the electorate

    Above everything she led from the front, risked her political capital , projected strength and capability and was dubbed the Iron Lady by the Russian media, was she perfect? no, but she led the country on a path of economic and social modernisation.
    A lot of people clearly don't remember.

    I am sure they do in Barnsley and other parts of Yorkshire.

    And of course she was wildly popular in Scotland.

    Poll-Tax-Rally.jpg

    Daily-Record-front-page.png

    images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQXvJi4bU0f6SWot-pv-BTJ8_ojPAxF0wZoME6ZpfnAhpXfT35W
    At Westminster, Scotland is represented by 35 MPs from the Scottish National Party, 13 from the Conservative Party, 7 MPs from the Labour Party and 4 from the Liberal Democrats.

    That sounds like a mandate for independence to me.
  • robert88
    robert88 Posts: 2,696
    GIANT THATCHER STATUE TO ‘MAKE SCOTLAND BRITISH AGAIN’
    David Cameron[remember him?] has revealed government proposals designed to ‘make Scotland British again’, beginning with the erection of a massive monument to Baroness Thatcher in Glasgow’s George Square.

    Further plans include the voluntary wearing of a small tartan star by everyone in Scotland, a UK-wide public holiday celebrating Scottish contributions to UK culture, provisionally called Beat-a-Jock-to-Death Day, and the banning of films such as Braveheart, Whisky Galore! and Restless Natives on a voluntary basis, with the PM himself volunteering to ban them.
    ..

    Nelson Mandela – who Lady Thatcher believed should be hanged as a terrorist and who was honoured in the city years before his release – is thought to feature as a detail on the statue, being squished beneath the Iron Lady’s heel.
    ..
    The creation of Jockswitz , a new theme park just outside Dundee, was also announced at the press conference. ‘Everyone knows that Freedom Makes You Work,’ said Cameron. ‘Or was it the other way round? Anyway, this will be the ultimate freedom and jolly hard work it will be too.’

    ‘I can confidently predict that anyone who visits Jockswitz will never feel the need to visit another theme park ever again. Best of all, it’s entirely temporary and it can be dismantled, and reconstructed in Newcastle, Manchester, Leeds or Cardiff within hours. If they aren’t careful.’
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 25,750
    Slowmart wrote:
    I’d file that under interesting if true and go with the comments from the Captain of the ship concerned and his undisputed orders to attack the British Navy the following day.
    Fine.
    I will go with the comments from people I know over Wiki.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • tangled_metal
    tangled_metal Posts: 4,021
    Wiki might be bull but there's a reference linked to the part where the section about the captain of the Belgrano apparently said he was manoeuvring with the aim of catching a RN vessel and sinking it as per his orders. If you wanted to you could check the reference out to possibly check the veracity of the wiki section.

    How can we check the veracity of your mates comments? You've not even said what role they had in the sinking if the Belgrano or even if they're Falkland veterans. I'm sorry but you've given us no way to compare your mates version with wiki section about the captain of the ARA Belgrano. I might trust them, like you, if I knew them. Or even if I knew how they could know the truth of the event.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,615
    Oh man there were other PMs.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 25,750
    You've not even said what role they had in the sinking if the Belgrano or even if they're Falkland veterans.
    They were on the Conqueror.
    But we have had enough of this tangent. Or I have at least.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • slowmart
    slowmart Posts: 4,480
    PBlakeney wrote:
    You've not even said what role they had in the sinking if the Belgrano or even if they're Falkland veterans.
    They were on the Conqueror.
    But we have had enough of this tangent. Or I have at least.


    https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/britain ... -belgrano/


    Indisputable from the men that had operational command.
    “Give a man a fish and feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and feed him for a lifetime. Teach a man to cycle and he will realize fishing is stupid and boring”

    Desmond Tutu
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 25,750
    Well, they would say that. Wouldn't they?
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 18,932
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Slowmart wrote:
    Does anyone remember the power and reach of unions,strikes making the news every week?

    Lowered tax on individuals, faced a Cabinet revolt over it.

    Privatisation, bought share ownership to the general population and at the same time reduce the need of the state tit nourishing overbloated and inefficient organisations , BR , BA , utility companies

    Recognised a transformation was needed in the labour markets as we needed to shift from manufacturing to service economy. Attracted foreign investment for setting up manufacturing bases in the UK, partly by legislation around unions.

    Let’s not forget, she was the first female PM, elected three times by the electorate

    Above everything she led from the front, risked her political capital , projected strength and capability and was dubbed the Iron Lady by the Russian media, was she perfect? no, but she led the country on a path of economic and social modernisation.
    A lot of people clearly don't remember.


    Anyone under 47 was still at school when Thatcher resigned.
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • Matthewfalle
    Matthewfalle Posts: 17,380
    Oh man there were other PMs.

    but none as vicious and evil as thatcher

    #maggiethatchermilksnatcher
    #warcriminal
    Postby team47b » Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:53 am

    De Sisti wrote:
    This is one of the silliest threads I've come across. :lol:

    Recognition at last Matthew, well done!, a justified honour :D
    smithy21 wrote:

    He's right you know.
  • Matthewfalle
    Matthewfalle Posts: 17,380
    john80 wrote:
    john80 wrote:
    rjsterry wrote:
    So no votes for Callaghan or Wilson then?

    What’s the argument for either?

    Curious one with Blair.

    Unbelievably popular during his time (if you judge him by his electoral victories), most people seemed to do well then.

    Downside; arguably sowed the seeds for a much more painful GFC, and Iraq...!

    I think that illustrates just how arbitrary it is to try to calculate some kind of net value for Prime Ministers. People single out Blair over Iraq, but ignore the Falklands, Gulf War, Kosovo, Libya, Korea, Suez, etc. Should the bloody partition of India or the mess that we left Israel and the Palestinian territories in count against Attlee?

    people don't ignore the Falklands - the vicious witch caused a war and broke the Geneva Convention to further her own gains.

    B Liar started an illegal war to further his own gains.

    both are hideous creatures.

    #vile

    It is obviously alternative facts day. Are you claiming that Argentina did not invade the Falklands and then South Georgia or somehow the UK put them up to it. Maybe the 649 Argentinians that lost their lives did not exist or maybe you should make the case that we should have left the people of the Falkland islands to fend for themselves with the Argentinians who I am sure would have had their best interests at heart. Maybe the people of the Falklands when they keep responding that they would like to remain British are all on crack and Maggie is reaching out from her grave. Maybe the United Nations Security Council were so scared of old Maggie that all those other nations requested immediate withdrawal.

    one word: Belgrano.

    unwarranted and unnecessary from a military point of view, blatant breach of the Geneva Convention, war crime.

    she was a hideous awful creature.

    lets not discuss her domestic policies as that will cause you to explode with Daily Heil rage.

    #vilecreature

    As others have ridiculed your version of events quite categorically I don't have to go back to #alternativefacts. I would point out that it is likely that it is your head that would explode if we were to discuss her domestic policies and I am guessing that all ills in this era were the direct cause of Thatcher in your tiny mind whereas I am likely to take a more balanced view. The only defence was from PBlakeney who seems to have either a lot of Argentinian mates that know better than the captain of the Belgrano or is full of bull.

    yeah, her domestic policies were great for anyone outside of London. Oh, no, they weren't. She was a cold hearted vicious cow.

    so popular "ding dong the witch is dead" went to number 1 to celebrate her death.

    killed british industry, destroyed the furure and dreams of millions

    crushed workers' rights to feed the voracity of mammon.

    regaled by the daily heil readers, hated by everyone else.

    bizarrely, was also a good friend of jimmy savile

    horrible vile creature

    #warcriminal
    Postby team47b » Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:53 am

    De Sisti wrote:
    This is one of the silliest threads I've come across. :lol:

    Recognition at last Matthew, well done!, a justified honour :D
    smithy21 wrote:

    He's right you know.
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 58,482
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Slowmart wrote:
    Does anyone remember the power and reach of unions,strikes making the news every week?

    Lowered tax on individuals, faced a Cabinet revolt over it.

    Privatisation, bought share ownership to the general population and at the same time reduce the need of the state tit nourishing overbloated and inefficient organisations , BR , BA , utility companies

    Recognised a transformation was needed in the labour markets as we needed to shift from manufacturing to service economy. Attracted foreign investment for setting up manufacturing bases in the UK, partly by legislation around unions.

    Let’s not forget, she was the first female PM, elected three times by the electorate

    Above everything she led from the front, risked her political capital , projected strength and capability and was dubbed the Iron Lady by the Russian media, was she perfect? no, but she led the country on a path of economic and social modernisation.
    A lot of people clearly don't remember.


    Anyone under 47 was still at school when Thatcher resigned.
    True, that's one reason.

    Although students of history should be able to look it up themselves.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 27,638
    Oh man there were other PMs.

    but none as vicious and evil as thatcher

    #maggiethatchermilksnatcher
    #warcriminal

    Viciousness or evil have nothing to do with it. Deaths from the partition of India? Between 200,000 and 2 million with 14 million displaced. Korean War? 5 million dead, half of which were Korean civilians. Suez? A pre-planned war aimed at regime change was started with a 'fake' invasion of Sinai by Israel as a pretext for French and British 'peacekeeping' invasion.

    Still waiting for the name of any prime minister who hasn't been involved in starting some dubious military action.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 40,490
    Lagrange wrote:
    Boris. In all the time he has been PM, he has done nothing wrong. :D

    But then blots his copybook on day 1 by appointing Javid as Chancellor, Raab as Foreign Secretary, Patel as Home Secretary and bringing back Williamson who is incapable of keeping quiet about the inner decisions of the Cabinet. Oh, and JRM Leader of the Commons!
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 40,490
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Slowmart wrote:
    Does anyone remember the power and reach of unions,strikes making the news every week?

    Lowered tax on individuals, faced a Cabinet revolt over it.

    Privatisation, bought share ownership to the general population and at the same time reduce the need of the state tit nourishing overbloated and inefficient organisations , BR , BA , utility companies

    Recognised a transformation was needed in the labour markets as we needed to shift from manufacturing to service economy. Attracted foreign investment for setting up manufacturing bases in the UK, partly by legislation around unions.

    Let’s not forget, she was the first female PM, elected three times by the electorate

    Above everything she led from the front, risked her political capital , projected strength and capability and was dubbed the Iron Lady by the Russian media, was she perfect? no, but she led the country on a path of economic and social modernisation.
    A lot of people clearly don't remember.


    Anyone under 47 was still at school when Thatcher resigned.

    I'm under 47 and was working when she resigned!
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 27,638
    Pross wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Slowmart wrote:
    Does anyone remember the power and reach of unions,strikes making the news every week?

    Lowered tax on individuals, faced a Cabinet revolt over it.

    Privatisation, bought share ownership to the general population and at the same time reduce the need of the state tit nourishing overbloated and inefficient organisations , BR , BA , utility companies

    Recognised a transformation was needed in the labour markets as we needed to shift from manufacturing to service economy. Attracted foreign investment for setting up manufacturing bases in the UK, partly by legislation around unions.

    Let’s not forget, she was the first female PM, elected three times by the electorate

    Above everything she led from the front, risked her political capital , projected strength and capability and was dubbed the Iron Lady by the Russian media, was she perfect? no, but she led the country on a path of economic and social modernisation.
    A lot of people clearly don't remember.


    Anyone under 47 was still at school when Thatcher resigned.

    I'm under 47 and was working when she resigned!

    Paper round? ;)

    Yes, there is a narrow 2-year window of opportunity.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • robert88
    robert88 Posts: 2,696
    rjsterry wrote:
    Oh man there were other PMs.

    but none as vicious and evil as thatcher

    #maggiethatchermilksnatcher
    #warcriminal

    Viciousness or evil have nothing to do with it. Deaths from the partition of India? Between 200,000 and 2 million with 14 million displaced. Korean War? 5 million dead, half of which were Korean civilians. Suez? A pre-planned war aimed at regime change was started with a 'fake' invasion of Sinai by Israel as a pretext for French and British 'peacekeeping' invasion.

    Still waiting for the name of any prime minister who hasn't been involved in starting some dubious military action.

    The most excellent Henry Campbell-Bannerman.

    The Great War was not his doing:
    the Liberal leader, having fought a good fight, kept the faith to the end and was in no way responsible for the European tragedy that came to pass six years after his death"
  • john80
    john80 Posts: 2,965
    john80 wrote:
    john80 wrote:
    rjsterry wrote:
    So no votes for Callaghan or Wilson then?

    What’s the argument for either?

    Curious one with Blair.

    Unbelievably popular during his time (if you judge him by his electoral victories), most people seemed to do well then.

    Downside; arguably sowed the seeds for a much more painful GFC, and Iraq...!

    I think that illustrates just how arbitrary it is to try to calculate some kind of net value for Prime Ministers. People single out Blair over Iraq, but ignore the Falklands, Gulf War, Kosovo, Libya, Korea, Suez, etc. Should the bloody partition of India or the mess that we left Israel and the Palestinian territories in count against Attlee?

    people don't ignore the Falklands - the vicious witch caused a war and broke the Geneva Convention to further her own gains.

    B Liar started an illegal war to further his own gains.

    both are hideous creatures.

    #vile

    It is obviously alternative facts day. Are you claiming that Argentina did not invade the Falklands and then South Georgia or somehow the UK put them up to it. Maybe the 649 Argentinians that lost their lives did not exist or maybe you should make the case that we should have left the people of the Falkland islands to fend for themselves with the Argentinians who I am sure would have had their best interests at heart. Maybe the people of the Falklands when they keep responding that they would like to remain British are all on crack and Maggie is reaching out from her grave. Maybe the United Nations Security Council were so scared of old Maggie that all those other nations requested immediate withdrawal.

    one word: Belgrano.

    unwarranted and unnecessary from a military point of view, blatant breach of the Geneva Convention, war crime.

    she was a hideous awful creature.

    lets not discuss her domestic policies as that will cause you to explode with Daily Heil rage.

    #vilecreature

    As others have ridiculed your version of events quite categorically I don't have to go back to #alternativefacts. I would point out that it is likely that it is your head that would explode if we were to discuss her domestic policies and I am guessing that all ills in this era were the direct cause of Thatcher in your tiny mind whereas I am likely to take a more balanced view. The only defence was from PBlakeney who seems to have either a lot of Argentinian mates that know better than the captain of the Belgrano or is full of bull.

    yeah, her domestic policies were great for anyone outside of London. Oh, no, they weren't. She was a cold hearted vicious cow.

    so popular "ding dong the witch is dead" went to number 1 to celebrate her death.

    killed british industry, destroyed the furure and dreams of millions

    crushed workers' rights to feed the voracity of mammon.

    regaled by the daily heil readers, hated by everyone else.

    bizarrely, was also a good friend of jimmy savile

    horrible vile creature

    #warcriminal

    I am guessing that british industry was doing great in you head in this era. Remember when british leyland were pushing bare shells through a rainy car park for painting. When engineers pointed out the obvious flaw in this process the first thought was for preserving the guys jobs doing this pointless task. Real bmw beating company right there. Wonder why they went bust.

    Reading your posts and using your logic i can only assume you were a saville friend and a war criminal as it is equally probable. Maybe we should still be running trains on coal to keep those miners busy.
  • Matthewfalle
    Matthewfalle Posts: 17,380
    you're utterly missing the point of society and government aren't you?

    #shocking
    #warcriminal
    Postby team47b » Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:53 am

    De Sisti wrote:
    This is one of the silliest threads I've come across. :lol:

    Recognition at last Matthew, well done!, a justified honour :D
    smithy21 wrote:

    He's right you know.
  • slowmart
    slowmart Posts: 4,480
    you're utterly missing the point of society and government aren't you?

    #shocking
    #warcriminal

    Pray tell, as there’s a mahoosive disconnect here, enlighten the forum of your wisdom?
    “Give a man a fish and feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and feed him for a lifetime. Teach a man to cycle and he will realize fishing is stupid and boring”

    Desmond Tutu
  • robert88
    robert88 Posts: 2,696
    Godfrey part two.

    Every internet discussion on the state of things today eventually ends up discussing Thatcher.
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 27,638
    Robert88 wrote:
    rjsterry wrote:
    Oh man there were other PMs.

    but none as vicious and evil as thatcher

    #maggiethatchermilksnatcher
    #warcriminal

    Viciousness or evil have nothing to do with it. Deaths from the partition of India? Between 200,000 and 2 million with 14 million displaced. Korean War? 5 million dead, half of which were Korean civilians. Suez? A pre-planned war aimed at regime change was started with a 'fake' invasion of Sinai by Israel as a pretext for French and British 'peacekeeping' invasion.

    Still waiting for the name of any prime minister who hasn't been involved in starting some dubious military action.

    The most excellent Henry Campbell-Bannerman.

    The Great War was not his doing:
    the Liberal leader, having fought a good fight, kept the faith to the end and was in no way responsible for the European tragedy that came to pass six years after his death"

    Yes, he does seem to have managed to squeeze his premiership between the Boer War and WWI.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 58,482
    Slowmart wrote:
    you're utterly missing the point of society and government aren't you?

    #shocking
    #warcriminal

    Pray tell, as there’s a mahoosive disconnect here, enlighten the forum of your wisdom?
    Go on MF, what is the point?
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • robert88
    robert88 Posts: 2,696
    rjsterry wrote:
    Robert88 wrote:
    rjsterry wrote:
    Oh man there were other PMs.

    but none as vicious and evil as thatcher

    #maggiethatchermilksnatcher
    #warcriminal

    Viciousness or evil have nothing to do with it. Deaths from the partition of India? Between 200,000 and 2 million with 14 million displaced. Korean War? 5 million dead, half of which were Korean civilians. Suez? A pre-planned war aimed at regime change was started with a 'fake' invasion of Sinai by Israel as a pretext for French and British 'peacekeeping' invasion.

    Still waiting for the name of any prime minister who hasn't been involved in starting some dubious military action.

    The most excellent Henry Campbell-Bannerman.

    The Great War was not his doing:
    the Liberal leader, having fought a good fight, kept the faith to the end and was in no way responsible for the European tragedy that came to pass six years after his death"

    Yes, he does seem to have managed to squeeze his premiership between the Boer War and WWI.

    Nul points, mate.

    You got your name now go away and read up on why CB was a good prime minister.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,615
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    The problem with Thatcher is there were too many losers under her.
    You mean like Michael Foot or Neil Kinnock?

    No.

    So her positives are well known. British economy overall soared, was fantastic for London and SE.

    Negatives - swathes of the UK was guttered and a lot of that still has never recovered.

    I’d want a broader base of success for the overall “best PM since ‘45” moniker.

    http://evonomics.com/neoliberalism-rich ... is-dillow/
    Neoliberal ideology, then, predicts that productivity growth should have accelerated. But it hasn’t. In fact, Bank of England data show that productivity growth, averaged over 20 years, has trended down since the 1970s.

    Why?