Best PM

greasedscotsman

I think most will agree that the last and next Prime Ministers were/will be pretty hopeless, but who do you think was the best (lets say since the end of World War 2).

robert88

On the Left Clement Atlee; on the Right Winston Churchill.

slowmart

Atlee & Thatcher

Both true believers in their cause, both risked their political capital to make profound changes to the UK.

robert88

Slowmart wrote:

Atlee & Thatcher

Both true believers in their cause, both risked their political capital to make profound changes to the UK.

The only problem with Thatcher is that she is the author of our discontent. A product of the Atlee years she was an ardent member of the Vile Vermin club and rather than being the real force behind her eponymous 'ism was in fact an agent for Sir Keith Joseph who ghost wrote her role and was regarded as an unacceptable face at the time but they loved his ideas.

Young Boris was a huge fan of hers and was devastated at her assassination at the hands of Geoffrey Howe et al. He vowed revenge and now's his chance. We sowed the wind all right.

slowmart

The Tories were always ruthless with politicians who had lost currency with the electorate. The exit strategy was to elevate the incumbent to the House of Lords.

The bottom line is she delivered on her convictions and made lasting changes to the UK economy and political establishment which as you point out are still being felt today

One thing which stands apart for today’s political situation is the Tories don’t have a viable opposition to force them into crystallise difficult answers into political policy pressure or pressure them to become a more effective government.

keef66

And I thought this was a thread about power meters...

Stevo_666

keef66 wrote:

And I thought this was a thread about power meters...

That's what I was hoping

robert88

Slowmart wrote:

The Tories were always ruthless with politicians who had lost currency with the electorate. The exit strategy was to elevate the incumbent to the House of Lords.

The bottom line is she delivered on her convictions and made lasting changes to the UK economy and political establishment which as you point out are still being felt today

One thing which stands apart for today’s political situation is the Tories don’t have a viable opposition to force them into crystallise difficult answers into political policy pressure or pressure them to become a more effective government.

Is what Thatcher and her backers set out to achieve.

Matthewfalle

thatcher was a vicious, devisive, ruthless, phuck society evil bitchhh who started a war and ignored the Geneva Convention to get re-elected.

one of the worst PMs ever, only superceded by Maybot The Utterly Useless and soon to be Jonson The Incompetent.

#dingdongthewitchisdead

slowmart

I remember Thatcher being asked what would she like as a legacy?

Her reply, two main parties both centre right.

She certainly got that with Blair and Brown.

rjsterry

Slowmart wrote:

I remember Thatcher being asked what would she like as a legacy?

Her reply, two main parties both centre right.

She certainly got that with Blair and Brown.

Have a Momentum sticker.

:roll:

rick_chasey

Gladstone!!

Wayne Plunger

Margaret Thatcher in my opinion.

Stevo_666

Wayne Plunger wrote:

Margaret Thatcher in my opinion.

+1 for the Iron Lady.

Stevo_666

rjsterry wrote:

Slowmart wrote:

I remember Thatcher being asked what would she like as a legacy?

Her reply, two main parties both centre right.

She certainly got that with Blair and Brown.

Have a Momentum sticker.

:roll:

He is a bit of a leftie, isn't he.

rick_chasey

Nuts you’d put her above Disraeli.

Pross

Rick Chasey wrote:

Nuts you’d put her above Disraeli.

Wasn't the original question set as since the war though?

If you judge 'best' as pushing through the policies that they got elected on then Thatcher is certainly up there in my lifetime (not that that is saying much as my memory is Thatcher, Major, Blair, Brown, Cameron, May and now Boris!). Obviously in pushing through those policies that were pretty right wing she alienated the near half a country (or possibly more if you count those too feckless to vote) who absolutely hated those policies. I suppose another measure of success is a PM who does a good job of uniting the country but I can't recall one of those.

I didn't think pre-Iraq Blair did too bad a job but he got lucky in inheriting a booming economy.

slowmart

rjsterry wrote:

Slowmart wrote:

I remember Thatcher being asked what would she like as a legacy?

Her reply, two main parties both centre right.

She certainly got that with Blair and Brown.

Have a Momentum sticker.

:roll:

28 years later, it’s relative and if you recall Labour had Militant promoting the same politics from within the party and I always admired Kinnock for fighting and winning for Labour Party values and expelling Derek Hatton and his ilk.

The shift was monumental if you consider Labour in the 90’s and 00’s.

Labour is as electable as it was when Michael Foot was leader, the only difference is the position on Brexit.

What’s more damaging leaving the EU or having Corbyn as PM?

It could reduce down to that binary point for the electorate

Stevo_666

Pross wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Nuts you’d put her above Disraeli.

Wasn't the original question set as since the war though?

If you judge 'best' as pushing through the policies that they got elected on then Thatcher is certainly up there in my lifetime (not that that is saying much as my memory is Thatcher, Major, Blair, Brown, Cameron, May and now Boris!). Obviously in pushing through those policies that were pretty right wing she alienated the near half a country (or possibly more if you count those too feckless to vote) who absolutely hated those policies. I suppose another measure of success is a PM who does a good job of uniting the country but I can't recall one of those.

I didn't think pre-Iraq Blair did too bad a job but he got lucky in inheriting a booming economy.

Come on Pross, don't bother Rick with minor details like reading the question. I mean, Boris wouldn't have bothered either.

rick_chasey

Pross wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Nuts you’d put her above Disraeli.

Wasn't the original question set as since the war though?

Ah, fair.

Decent argument for Atlee for creating the ultimate political sacred cow in British politics.

The problem with Thatcher is there were too many losers under her.

Anyone got a good counter to Atlee?

Pross

Rick Chasey wrote:

Pross wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Nuts you’d put her above Disraeli.

Wasn't the original question set as since the war though?

Ah, fair.

Decent argument for Atlee for creating the ultimate political sacred cow in British politics.

The problem with Thatcher is there were too many losers under her.

Anyone got a good counter to Atlee?

A lot of those who were losers under her would have voted for her (several times). Sounds like a familiar scenario.

Stevo_666

Rick Chasey wrote:

The problem with Thatcher is there were too many losers under her.

You mean like Michael Foot or Neil Kinnock?

rick_chasey

Stevo 666 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

The problem with Thatcher is there were too many losers under her.

You mean like Michael Foot or Neil Kinnock?

No.

So her positives are well known. British economy overall soared, was fantastic for London and SE.

Negatives - swathes of the UK was guttered and a lot of that still has never recovered.

I’d want a broader base of success for the overall “best PM since ‘45” moniker.

rjsterry

Rick Chasey wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

The problem with Thatcher is there were too many losers under her.

You mean like Michael Foot or Neil Kinnock?

No.

So her positives are well known. British economy overall soared, was fantastic for London and SE.

Negatives - swathes of the UK was guttered and a lot of that still has never recovered.

I’d want a broader base of success for the overall “best PM since ‘45” moniker.

As neatly illustrated by some bloke who left the North East to get a job in London.

Stevo_666

rjsterry wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

The problem with Thatcher is there were too many losers under her.

You mean like Michael Foot or Neil Kinnock?

No.

So her positives are well known. British economy overall soared, was fantastic for London and SE.

Negatives - swathes of the UK was guttered and a lot of that still has never recovered.

I’d want a broader base of success for the overall “best PM since ‘45” moniker.

As neatly illustrated by some bloke who left the North East to get a job in London.

Too many lefties blame structural change in the economy on Maggie. But I'll save a round of leftie mythbuster for another time. It was her pulling us out of the left wing mire that gets my vote. She also torments lefties from beyond the grave, which also contributes to her enduring greatness

rjsterry

Speaking as an economic migrant myself, I thought the smiley might be a clue that I was not being entirely serious.

The interesting thing about Thatcher is how much the Falklands changed things for her. If Argentina hadn't invaded she might have never made it past one term.

rick_chasey

Stevo 666 wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

The problem with Thatcher is there were too many losers under her.

You mean like Michael Foot or Neil Kinnock?

No.

So her positives are well known. British economy overall soared, was fantastic for London and SE.

Negatives - swathes of the UK was guttered and a lot of that still has never recovered.

I’d want a broader base of success for the overall “best PM since ‘45” moniker.

As neatly illustrated by some bloke who left the North East to get a job in London.

Too many lefties blame structural change in the economy on Maggie. But I'll save a round of leftie mythbuster for another time. It was her pulling us out of the left wing mire that gets my vote. She also torments lefties from beyond the grave, which also contributes to her enduring greatness

Giving the areas affected a softer landing rather than crippling them beyond repair might have helped.

Anyway, surely Attlee wins it? If so why not?

Lagrange

Boris. In all the time he has been PM, he has done nothing wrong.

tailwindhome

rjsterry wrote:

Speaking as an economic migrant myself, I thought the smiley might be a clue that I was not being entirely serious.

The interesting thing about Thatcher is how much the Falklands changed things for her. If Argentina hadn't invaded she might have never made it past one term.

The interesting thing about Thatcher is she resigned 3 decades ago.

crispybug2

I'm pretty sure that it was Ben Elton who said something along the lines of I don't like Thatcher that much is evident, but you did understand exactly what she stood for, I don't like it but I know what she stands for!

In contrast to many other politicians and prime minister's of the twentieth century who were biege in the extreme.

rolf_f

Lagrange wrote:

Boris. In all the time he has been PM, he has done nothing wrong.

Just like Brexit, Boris as PM hasn't actually happened yet!

I can understand why people like Thatcher but rose tinted specs are applying a bit. She was truly terrible for most of the country and seemingly motivated much by spite. She has that in common with Trump. Maybe if she'd been less destructive to manufacturing we'd be in a stronger place now and not about to leave the EU which of course she would not have been in favour of (though I suspect that most Tory leavers think she would have). She is a very long way from best PM I would have thought.