Is a creaky bike a defect ?

kingrollo

I am currently in dispute with the bike shop were I purchased my bike for the nominal sum of £3500 !

I got the bike last September and due to back injury hardly rode it until April of this year. After this this I noticed an annoying creak when cycling up steep hills - I contacted the bike shop and they agreed to take a look - this mean't a 160 mile round trip for me.

I received an email - saying they had discovered the BB was extremely loose - and they agreed to replace it with a different BB - They returned the bike to me - but within 90 seconds of me riding it the creak was back - it was now louder - and was easier to reproduce.

I am not keen on further 160 miles trips - for the shop to keep the bike for 3 weeks and return it to me IMO without any testing or care if it was fixed.

I have asked the shop for either a replacement or a refund. So far they have refused. This appears to leave me with the option of rising a £3.5k bike that rides like a bag of nails - or try to recover my money through the small claims court.

The problem I have is that does a creaky bike count as defective ? - As I am sure they will say CF bike - press fit BB is know to produce a creaky bike.

If it is defective I feel I would win the case. ...thoughts ?

imposter2.0

Press fit BBs in carbon frames should not routinely creak. What bike is it? What BB did it have originally, and what was the 'different' BB it was replaced with?

timothyw

I'd suggest testing it before travelling the 80 miles home next time.

Or just take it to a trusted local bike shop who could probably have it sorted for £20 and a lot less stress.

I don't think you have a hope of winning a court case based on what you've written, incidentally. The bike is ten months old so burden of proof is on you to show the bike has always been defective if you want to go down that road.

I'd suggest fixing it would be a better approach.

joey54321

If it can be fixed. I've recently had a LBS put in a screw-together wheel manufacturing BB and my PF30 bike still creaks.

Not really sure why the OP stands, in my opinion, it is defective and 10 months is still within a guarantee period. However, a BB would likely be considered a wear and tear item and thus not covered.

kingrollo

O/P here

1.it now has a rotor BB

2.The shop had the bike for 3 weeks - then delivered it back to me.

3.Because its under warranty I wanted it fixed by the shop. If I take it elsewhere then my warranty (fwiw) may be void

When I initially collected the bike it had a flat di2 battery - and the disc brakes imo werent great. They gave me another battery in store - not a problem - but indicative of the quality of the bike build.

ibr17xvii

TimothyW wrote:

I'd suggest testing it before travelling the 80 miles home next time.

Or just take it to a trusted local bike shop who could probably have it sorted for £20 and a lot less stress.

I don't think you have a hope of winning a court case based on what you've written, incidentally. The bike is ten months old so burden of proof is on you to show the bike has always been defective if you want to go down that road.

I'd suggest fixing it would be a better approach.

This.

I bought a CAAD12 online that creaked straight out of the box. Contacted the shop where I got it & said I wasn't prepared to send or take it back & I wanted it sorting locally & they were paying.

To be fair they said that was fine & it was all done & dusted within a day or two.

I would be taking it to somewhere reputable local to you & get them to put their findings in writing so you can take it up with who you got it from.

cycleclinic

sales of goods act mention time of use not miles ridden.

The BB might creak for a number of reasons. The retailer should fix this. the fact they had not not means on your next visit take your kit and take a for a good ride afterwards. I dont think you can legimatley ask for a refund now.

First what frame what BB standard. What BB was used to replace. All these will affect our answer on the best next step. There is an outside chance the frame is defective.

rotor BB are not that good. I would be fitting a Token Ninja or Wheels manufacturing BB. you need a thread fit BB to avoid craking with a pressit standard.

One pof the problem here is press fit. My advise to anyone unless your a comptetant home mechanic just say no to press fit. Stick to threaded BB's. That may limit your choice of frames but the manufacturers will soon get the message.

Alejandrosdog

the over 6 months thing is an issue but you can still reject goods on the basis that the durability was not as required providing you have contacted the seller immediately you became aware of the issue. (i.e. not exacerbating the problem by using it in a defective state.)

it appears that you have done that, that the seller has accepted there is a fault by replacing the BB either because there was or business practice is to just replace to placate the customer. either way the fault is there post service.

reject the goods.

bianchi_dave

May be a daft question, but are you sure the creak was definitely coming from the BB? Any number of things could cause it, especially when the frame is under load going up hills - seat post, axle drop outs, headset etc.
Just a thought, and could save you hell of a lot of grief and hassle!

kingstonian

The problem with bikes is it can be so bloody difficult to track down where a squeak or clunk is coming from. Case in point is that I had a very feint squeak in one of my bikes, I looked at chain, cranks, bottom bracket, rear cassette and still couldn't track it down, eventually after much searching it turned out to be the rear hub which needed servicing.

StillGoing

thecycleclinic wrote:

rotor BB are not that good. I would be fitting a Token Ninja or Wheels manufacturing BB. you need a thread fit BB to avoid craking with a pressit standard.

Got a Rotor BBright 4624 in my BB386 EVO and the creaking stopped. No issues in 3 years of fitting.

kingrollo

philthy3 wrote:

thecycleclinic wrote:

rotor BB are not that good. I would be fitting a Token Ninja or Wheels manufacturing BB. you need a thread fit BB to avoid craking with a pressit standard.

Got a Rotor BBright 4624 in my BB386 EVO and the creaking stopped. No issues in 3 years of fitting.

I believe that is the exact set up I now have.

The shop said the original BB fell out easier than they expected:-

"When I tapped out the chainset, the push fit bottom bracket came out of the frame at the same time. It should be very much more difficult to remove than that"

However they assured me this was a faulty BB - and not a problem with the frame itself. However the problem is worse than ever and I was pretty angry when the creaking starting with 90 seconds on my first ride after returning.

The mechanical build has been sloppy - I had to reseat the rear inner tune, the ulegra disc brakes don't seem to have much umphh - and like I say when I arrived for the fitting & initial collection the DI2 battery hadn't been charged. Therefore the bike hadn't been road tested.
The shop offered to re bleed the brakes - but they feel no different - and of course the creak remains.

so is it a duff frame ? - or does that shop not know how to fit a press fit BB (Surprising as they seem to only supply high end bikes) - my bike at £3.5k seemed to towards the lower end of bikes they supply !!

apriliarider

kingrollo wrote:

philthy3 wrote:

thecycleclinic wrote:

rotor BB are not that good. I would be fitting a Token Ninja or Wheels manufacturing BB. you need a thread fit BB to avoid craking with a pressit standard.

Got a Rotor BBright 4624 in my BB386 EVO and the creaking stopped. No issues in 3 years of fitting.

I believe that is the exact set up I now have.

The shop said the original BB fell out easier than they expected:-

"When I tapped out the chainset, the push fit bottom bracket came out of the frame at the same time. It should be very much more difficult to remove than that"

However they assured me this was a faulty BB - and not a problem with the frame itself. However the problem is worse than ever and I was pretty angry when the creaking starting with 90 seconds on my first ride after returning.

The mechanical build has been sloppy - I had to reseat the rear inner tune, the ulegra disc brakes don't seem to have much umphh - and like I say when I arrived for the fitting & initial collection the DI2 battery hadn't been charged. Therefore the bike hadn't been road tested.
The shop offered to re bleed the brakes - but they feel no different - and of course the creak remains.

so is it a duff frame ? - or does that shop not know how to fit a press fit BB (Surprising as they seem to only supply high end bikes) - my bike at £3.5k seemed to towards the lower end of bikes they supply !!

If the B&B fell out, then I would suggest it is more likely that there is an issue with the frame rather than the two ?? BB's you have had. Get a good LBS to have a look and if it is the frame then reject it. If you paid by credit card (or even just the deposit) then open a Section 75 with your credit card provider for a refund.

Good luck

jgsi

Too late now but surely there must be a rep bike shop with a good mechanic or 2 more local to you?
Ok, you may have be asked more for the product but at least it might have been spannered properly.
Are these people genuine or are they just 'box openers' and get it out of the door merchants?
The fact that you have left it for a lengthy period of time is not helping.
Plan B.
Break it all down and sell on Ebay.

kingrollo

It was a cycle to work purchase

The shop is dedicated bike shop - with a good rep - owner is a cyclist - and seems genuine enough

I didn't instruct the shop the replace the BB - I just told them it was creaking and to sort it out - it was the shop who said the BB was loose and replaced it..

cycleclinic

If the bb comes out too easily then loctite might be needed to fix the cups in place. It might also be a warranty issue. Rejecting the bike does not solve the issue. Get it addressed properly. That means the shop has to measure things like bore I'd and cup o.d.

Trek had an issue with over sized press fit shells. Token made bb to fits this mis manufactured bikes. Really it's a warranty.

However we are guessing it might not even be the bb. We dont know.

cycleclinic

Oh ultegra brakes dont have much oomph. That's how they are. They stop you though in the same time. There is more lever travel which is co fused with a lack of braking force. With rim brakes you get to wheel lock more easily. Wheel lock though means your not stopping as quickly.

cycleclinic

Great if the rotor bb worked for you bit that's a sample of one.

A thread fit bb is required. My experience of rotor Bob's is the bearing wear fast. I have got 4000k. Out of there expensive ceramic bbs and the last 1000km was on worn bearings. They are shite. The bb in my mtb is not much better.

Number if years is irrelevant and I have noticed many people think the bearings are fine if the cranks spin freely and that's not so. A worn braid g grumbles and can be heard. Bearing drag when there is no load may be very low. Apply load though and it very high and that's what noisey bearings that spin freely with no load should be replaced. What do I know though, I only studied engineering.

timothyw

To be fair that does sound iffy to me - perhaps a defective frame if the bottom bracket is that loose.

If you aren't confident to take off the cranks and bottom bracket yourself to have a look then I'd suggest taking it to a local shop for a second opinion - if the bottom bracket is loose then really you ought get the frame replaced under guarantee.

There might be a way to bodge it with loctite etc but you're right that it shouldn't happen with a new bike.

slowbike

For me - I would be having a look at the BB myself - a quick removal of the crank and see if the BB seems properly seated doesn't invalidate warranty - then, if you've got a relationship with a local BS - I'd be taking it in there and asking their opinion of what's wrong and how it should be fixed - note that you could get different answers from different people - but at least it's an answer and you've got something to go back to the original retailer with.

cycleclinic

Actually it happens all the time with pressfit standards timothyw. That's the problem. Many bb manufacturers do suggest pictures for some standards but some frame manufacturers say no because of the resins they use are degraded by the loctite.

For press for to work the tolerances on the wheel have to be really tight. Look manage this so do time. Manh of the volume manufacturers don't though hense creaks appear.

Again this is a guess as to the cause of the problem. A forum cant solve the problem. The OP needs to visit a shop that's local or the original retailer to get it resolved. If that fails then contact the manufacturer/importer. Keep a record of work done to back up your case.

kingrollo

Update - Just had a call from Kuota HQ - They have provided with details of a shop closer to home - to give a 2nd opinion - depending on that Kuota HQ (UK) will have the bike back for possible replacement.

A bit happier.

Alejandrosdog

kingrollo wrote:

Update - Just had a call from Kuota HQ - They have provided with details of a shop closer to home - to give a 2nd opinion - depending on that Kuota HQ (UK) will have the bike back for possible replacement.

A bit happier.

Kuota? Theyre very good in my experience. I'm sure they will help you repair or sort it.

darkhairedlord

Pedals, chaining bolts,

kingrollo

darkhairedlord wrote:

Pedals, chaining bolts,

2 bike shops have said the BB is suspect. I think the issue now is whether the bb has been fitted poorly twice - or is the frame defective.

keef66

If I'd paid that much for a bike I'd expect it to creak free.

I'm thinking if the original press-fit BB virtually fell out when they removed the chainset that the BB shell is slightly oversized. Which would explain why the second one is creaking.

Hope Kuota conclude the same and give you a replacement frame

drlodge

I had creaks and clicks on and off for years on the Rourke, was sure it was the BB, actually it was the rear wheel freehub bearing.

kingrollo

keef66 wrote:

If I'd paid that much for a bike I'd expect it to creak free.

I'm thinking if the original press-fit BB virtually fell out when they removed the chainset that the BB shell is slightly oversized. Which would explain why the second one is creaking.

Hope Kuota conclude the same and give you a replacement frame

Well they haven't yet - but thats my prognosis. This is my 3rd Kuota never had an issue before - I was expecting a less protracted response to be honest.

kingrollo

drlodge wrote:

I had creaks and clicks on and off for years on the Rourke, was sure it was the BB, actually it was the rear wheel freehub bearing.

Maybe - I haven't offered an opinion of where the creak is from - I leave that to the experts. I don't want to demand 'replace the bb' then the creak still remains - I have told them to sort the creak - whether that be tightening a chain ring bolt - or a frame/bike replacement.

Should get a further update tomorrow.

kingrollo

Getting seriously fecked off with Kuota now - called the bike shop who kuota HQ referred me too - they are very busy and have been unable to look at this issue. The impression I got was my bike is being slotted in around the shops paying business and they are very busy - so why send me there - bike has been in one repair or other for 4 of the last 6 weeks. !!!!!

drlodge

The contract you have is with the bike shop you bought it from. If it were my bike I'd be sorely tempted to take the thing apart and investigate myself!