36/46 poor choice

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Comments

  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,321
    TimothyW wrote:

    Curveball option is to buy a new Power2max set of cranks and gain a powermeter....

    zero appeal.
    A power meter is for training and just dead weight for long distance riding. :lol:
    left the forum March 2023
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,419
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    PBlakeney wrote:
    Is the solution not as simple as Stronglight rings with the number of teeth of your choice?

    I have replaced the ring twice already in the past... I am just thinking whether the axle part will last indefinitely or not...

    Basically all I wanted to know was whether there was some knowledge that Google didn't answer to... seemingly the choice of 36 x 46 was as per search engine...
    Replace the rings and replace the bearings when required.
    No reason why cranks won't last a lifetime. As a teenager I inherited my Dad's bike from when he was a teenager. All it need was new wheels and replace bearings, pads etc. Bloody heavy thing mind. :wink:
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,321
    PBlakeney wrote:
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    PBlakeney wrote:
    Is the solution not as simple as Stronglight rings with the number of teeth of your choice?

    I have replaced the ring twice already in the past... I am just thinking whether the axle part will last indefinitely or not...

    Basically all I wanted to know was whether there was some knowledge that Google didn't answer to... seemingly the choice of 36 x 46 was as per search engine...
    Replace the rings and replace the bearings when required.
    No reason why cranks won't last a lifetime. As a teenager I inherited my Dad's bike from when he was a teenager. All it need was new wheels and replace bearings, pads etc. Bloody heavy thing mind. :wink:

    Solid BB axles though... I don't think these hollow axles are meant to last forever
    left the forum March 2023
  • alan_sherman
    alan_sherman Posts: 1,157
    Did you see the new Tiagra 34-48 chainset? https://www.bike-discount.de/en/buy/shi ... -34-847019

    A little more of a jump than you have today, but better than the usual compact leap of faith.
    Also - why not get a triple - you run campag shifters don't you? A lovely 39 middle ring for day to day stuff, 50 for smashing it, 30 for loaded climbing.

    FWIW i run 36x50 because I hate the big jump, but even then the front shift is annoying on rolling roads - a 39 might be a better ring but I loose the bottom end. i reckon a 48 x 11 is enough top end, maybe even a 48x12 would be fine.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,321
    alan sherman wrote:
    Did you see the new Tiagra 34-48 chainset? https://www.bike-discount.de/en/buy/shi ... -34-847019

    A little more of a jump than you have today, but better than the usual compact leap of faith.
    Also - why not get a triple - you run campag shifters don't you? A lovely 39 middle ring for day to day stuff, 50 for smashing it, 30 for loaded climbing.

    FWIW i run 36x50 because I hate the big jump, but even then the front shift is annoying on rolling roads - a 39 might be a better ring but I loose the bottom end. i reckon a 48 x 11 is enough top end, maybe even a 48x12 would be fine.

    .. although Tiagra is the worse of both worlds... it's heavier than my old CX 50 and replacing the big ring costs twice as much as my CX 50...
    Basically it just looks good, but in practice is a downgrade
    left the forum March 2023
  • Moonbiker
    Moonbiker Posts: 1,706
    https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m2b0s109p35 ... oad-Cranks

    Listed a 504g without chainrings. (170mm)

    Assuming there listed weights are correct as it sounds very light?

    Can't find any weight listing for a Shimano FC-R460 its maybe heavier than cx50 so a downgrade?
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,321
    Moonbiker wrote:

    Can't find any weight listing for a Shimano FC-R460 its maybe heavier than cx50 so a downgrade?

    Apparently over 100 grams heavier, which seems a lump more
    left the forum March 2023
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,419
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    PBlakeney wrote:
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    PBlakeney wrote:
    Is the solution not as simple as Stronglight rings with the number of teeth of your choice?

    I have replaced the ring twice already in the past... I am just thinking whether the axle part will last indefinitely or not...

    Basically all I wanted to know was whether there was some knowledge that Google didn't answer to... seemingly the choice of 36 x 46 was as per search engine...
    Replace the rings and replace the bearings when required.
    No reason why cranks won't last a lifetime. As a teenager I inherited my Dad's bike from when he was a teenager. All it need was new wheels and replace bearings, pads etc. Bloody heavy thing mind. :wink:

    Solid BB axles though... I don't think these hollow axles are meant to last forever
    Well, my current Chorus set is 8 years old and shows no signs that it is going to melt anytime soon. And that is on the foul weather/commuter. :wink:
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,321
    PBlakeney wrote:
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    PBlakeney wrote:
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    PBlakeney wrote:
    Is the solution not as simple as Stronglight rings with the number of teeth of your choice?

    I have replaced the ring twice already in the past... I am just thinking whether the axle part will last indefinitely or not...

    Basically all I wanted to know was whether there was some knowledge that Google didn't answer to... seemingly the choice of 36 x 46 was as per search engine...
    Replace the rings and replace the bearings when required.
    No reason why cranks won't last a lifetime. As a teenager I inherited my Dad's bike from when he was a teenager. All it need was new wheels and replace bearings, pads etc. Bloody heavy thing mind. :wink:

    Solid BB axles though... I don't think these hollow axles are meant to last forever
    Well, my current Chorus set is 8 years old and shows no signs that it is going to melt anytime soon. And that is on the foul weather/commuter. :wink:

    Weather and metal fatigue have little in common. It's down to cycles (mileage) and load (power).
    I don't know how many miles are too many miles for these things, but you tend to find out rather dramatically, hence the erring on the side of caution approach
    left the forum March 2023
  • timothyw
    timothyw Posts: 2,482
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    TimothyW wrote:

    Curveball option is to buy a new Power2max set of cranks and gain a powermeter....

    zero appeal.
    A power meter is for training and just dead weight for long distance riding. :lol:
    Personally I wouldn't go without mine (and didn't on a recent 3 day tour).

    I do like data for the sake of it anyway, but most useful was on the final big climb on the third day (A494 between Ruthin and Mold - we'd decided that it was not the day for Bwlch Penbarras....)

    I had by that point established that if I went above 250w on the climbs, I dropped my ride buddy.... so I didn't. Tapped out the pace, we made the climb together, gave each other a celebratory high five, and we proceeded to beast each other on the flat run in.

    Strava tells me I'm in the bottom 7% of riders on that hill, and I'm rather proud! Memories that I'll hold onto for a long time.
  • OnTheRopes
    OnTheRopes Posts: 460
    TimothyW wrote:
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    TimothyW wrote:

    Curveball option is to buy a new Power2max set of cranks and gain a powermeter....

    zero appeal.
    A power meter is for training and just dead weight for long distance riding. :lol:
    Personally I wouldn't go without mine (and didn't on a recent 3 day tour).

    I do like data for the sake of it anyway, but most useful was on the final big climb on the third day (A494 between Ruthin and Mold - we'd decided that it was not the day for Bwlch Penbarras....)

    I had by that point established that if I went above 250w on the climbs, I dropped my ride buddy.... so I didn't. Tapped out the pace, we made the climb together, gave each other a celebratory high five, and we proceeded to beast each other on the flat run in.

    Strava tells me I'm in the bottom 7% of riders on that hill, and I'm rather proud! Memories that I'll hold onto for a long time.

    hmmm, I am a big power meter fan but really? you can't ride uphill and not drop your mate without one?
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,419
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    Weather and metal fatigue have little in common. It's down to cycles (mileage) and load (power).
    I don't know how many miles are too many miles for these things, but you tend to find out rather dramatically, hence the erring on the side of caution approach
    Well, 3000 miles a year, so @ 24,000 miles so far. Round the World? 8)
    And I can maintain 280 watts for an hour with the right incentive so not treated too lightly.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • timothyw
    timothyw Posts: 2,482
    OnTheRopes wrote:
    hmmm, I am a big power meter fan but really? you can't ride uphill and not drop your mate without one?
    Normally yeah, not a problem, on that day I was flying though, and he was struggling. There was fairly serious chat about him having to walk it.

    It could just as well have been the first climb on a long day that I wanted to pace for my own benefit - the excitement of a big ride can make it tricky - overcook it at the start and you can suffer later on.

    Either way, power meters are not just for training.
  • cycleclinic
    cycleclinic Posts: 6,865
    timothyW The spa/strongight rings are 9/10 speed not 11 speed/ Ugo said he has an 11 speed chainset so 11 speed rings it is. while 10 speed rings will work the chance of mis shift goes up a bit fitting 10 speed rings.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • cycleclinic
    cycleclinic Posts: 6,865
    Miche do a variety of chainsets with 36/46T rings. the cheapest is the Race HSP. the Syntium HSP is around £130 but 46/36t would be a ring size that would require an order from the factory. I do that often.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,419
    thecycleclinic wrote:
    timothyW The spa/strongight rings are 9/10 speed not 11 speed/ Ugo said he has an 11 speed chainset so 11 speed rings it is. while 10 speed rings will work the chance of mis shift goes up a bit fitting 10 speed rings.
    Guess it depends on the BCD.
    https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m2b2s149p35 ... r-11-speed
    https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m2b2s149p35 ... r-11-speed
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,321
    Finding rings for 5 arms 110 BCD is not an issue

    Is the Miche compatible with Shimano BSA bottom brackets?
    left the forum March 2023
  • cycleclinic
    cycleclinic Posts: 6,865
    Yes it is ugo.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,321
    thecycleclinic wrote:
    Yes it is ugo.

    So the only difference is the self extracting crank as opposed to the preload nut.
    How do they get away without preload on the BB bearings?
    left the forum March 2023
  • Moonbiker
    Moonbiker Posts: 1,706
    But the miche HSP is 4 bolt chainrings.

    Not sure which ones fit & how much?

    Do other brand 4 bolt rings fit etc?

    HSP ones seem as rare as hens teeth, and pricey:

    https://hollandbikeshop.com/en-gb/brand ... gJKkvD_BwE
  • timothyw
    timothyw Posts: 2,482
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    thecycleclinic wrote:
    Yes it is ugo.

    So the only difference is the self extracting crank as opposed to the preload nut.
    How do they get away without preload on the BB bearings?
    My experience with the FSA gossamer cranks on my power2max is that preload is not particularly necessary with Shimano bottom brackets.

    That or by some miracle the chainset provides the right amount of preload on all my bikes - the former seems more likely.

    Might help that the FSA axle is slightly larger than the shimano one so there isn't much scope for things to move around.
  • Moonbiker
    Moonbiker Posts: 1,706
    Says 11 speed here for theese rings ?

    https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m2b0s109p35 ... cral-Rings
  • cycleclinic
    cycleclinic Posts: 6,865
    The Miche RACE HSP chainset is £120 now I have looked at the price list. I am not sure what the difference between the syntium and the Race chainsets are. It must tbe the arms but the weights are isted as the same. The rings would sell for £85/pair or £50/£35.
    There is the Race EVO Max chainset with 5 arm 110BCD as well This is £110 and on the prce list but not on the Miche website. Miche rings are still £50/£35 but the stronglight rings that TimothyW linked to are actually more expensive.

    The bearing preload for shimano hollow tech II is not necessary as it more about making sure the crank is on properly than bearing preload. A crank bolt ensures the NDS crank is on properly.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • timothyw
    timothyw Posts: 2,482
    thecycleclinic wrote:
    the stronglight rings that TimothyW linked to are actually more expensive.

    That was PBlakeney.

    Had zero issues using the Spa chainrings with 11 speed incidentally, can't recall any mis-shifts, although I suppose it's possible that true 11 speed rings would be slightly better - difference must be pretty marginal though.

    Front shifting is miles better on Shimano 11 speed systems than it was on the preceding 10 speed systems anyway.
  • cycleclinic
    cycleclinic Posts: 6,865
    normllay 10 and 11 speed rings mix alright but not always. I have had issues personally so its not something I can offically recommend but if you have shifting sympthapy you'll be fine. People though can be hamfisted and on a public forum, advise has to be stated in such a way, that the hamfisted don't follow the "it should be fine" advise, because it may not be fine for them. You know the people, those who start a sprint standing up and then front shift under power.

    Even I can be hamfisted at times, we all can be, and then we hear our gears crunch at the back and my face screwws up in embrassment.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.

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