Alcohol & Personal Responsibility

slowbike
slowbike Posts: 8,498
edited June 2019 in The cake stop
bbc wrote:
As a busy working mum, Clare Hutton used to like a drink at the end of the day to unwind.

"It would be the 'wine o'clock time'. I was making the kids' tea, glass of wine, on to my third glass of wine at bath time for the boys, then they're in bed, and then we sit down for another glass."

It was only when her liver failed that Clare, then 39, realised the problem.

"I was bloated up, two days later I just couldn't move with the pain. We went to A&E. I was being wheeled up the corridor, and all I saw was the liver unit. It was at that point I knew. The doctors told my husband I would have had 10 days left.

"If it said on the box, and if it mentioned the liver and what it was doing to my body, I would have thought twice.

It's always someone elses fault isn't it ...

does anyone think that 4 glasses of wine in an evening - every evening - is responsible or healthy?

I enjoy a drink as much as the next person - Surely, it's really not difficult to stop after 1 or 2 and self limit to do that just occasionally or at the weekend at most?! Would anyone really read the label of the drink they're buying to see how many units they're drinking?
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Comments

  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 26,039
    edited June 2019
    The first required definition is - What size glass of wine?*
    125ml is possibly acceptable**, 250ml will be different, obviously. Every body handles it differently.

    * Or equivalent.
    ** on an acceptability scale. No one would consider it healthy. Leading question.

    PS - Were you drunk when you typed the title? :lol:
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • john80
    john80 Posts: 2,965
    When you are buying wine in a box for personal consumption this is maybe the time to have a look in the mirror.
  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    john80 wrote:
    When you are buying wine in a box for personal consumption this is maybe the time to have a look in the mirror.
    When you're buying it in multiples each week - definitely ...

    I'll openly admit to buying wine in a box for personal consumption (few years ago now) - it lasted the two of us quite some time .... :o
  • joe_totale-2
    joe_totale-2 Posts: 1,333
    By the sounds of it, this lady is an alcoholic hence the lack of self control. She normalised her drinking to the point that having a bottle of wine a night (at least, how big's a glass of wine?) wasn't an issue and became routine. Until the health issues she probably was functioning fine and no one would been any the wiser that she was actually a functioning alcoholic.
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 27,934
    Slowbike wrote:
    bbc wrote:
    As a busy working mum, Clare Hutton used to like a drink at the end of the day to unwind.

    "It would be the 'wine o'clock time'. I was making the kids' tea, glass of wine, on to my third glass of wine at bath time for the boys, then they're in bed, and then we sit down for another glass."

    It was only when her liver failed that Clare, then 39, realised the problem.

    "I was bloated up, two days later I just couldn't move with the pain. We went to A&E. I was being wheeled up the corridor, and all I saw was the liver unit. It was at that point I knew. The doctors told my husband I would have had 10 days left.

    "If it said on the box, and if it mentioned the liver and what it was doing to my body, I would have thought twice.

    It's always someone elses fault isn't it ...

    does anyone think that 4 glasses of wine in an evening - every evening - is responsible or healthy?

    I enjoy a drink as much as the next person - Surely, it's really not difficult to stop after 1 or 2 and self limit to do that just occasionally or at the weekend at most?! Would anyone really read the label of the drink they're buying to see how many units they're drinking?

    If it were that simple there would be no AA.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    rjsterry wrote:
    Slowbike wrote:
    bbc wrote:

    I enjoy a drink as much as the next person - Surely, it's really not difficult to stop after 1 or 2 and self limit to do that just occasionally or at the weekend at most?! Would anyone really read the label of the drink they're buying to see how many units they're drinking?

    If it were that simple there would be no AA.

    Recognising you're drinking too much doesn't need the knowledge of how many unit's you're drinking - only that you "need" the next drink...
  • tangled_metal
    tangled_metal Posts: 4,021
    If you feel the need for drinking alcohol to cope with life or have the mentality of "wine o'clock" then you have a problematic relationship with alcohol.

    If you go for a drink after work and with your first sip day "I needed that" then take a step back and look at yourself / your life. Something is wrong.

    You don't need to drink much for alcohol to be a problem. Even if you are drinking within safe levels if you need to drink alcohol to unwind or relax you have a problem.

    IMHO alcohol should be about adding to your life. For example a nice meal with a glass of nice wine or beer or cider. It's about complimenting the meal and adding to it. You don't need much, a glass is probably as good as anything. Or a social malt whiskey while you chat with friends or family in winter. If you need it or miss it if you abstain for awhile then IMHO go cold turkey and give up.

    BTW in my extended / distant family there are what I view as alcoholics. There is one who everyone would recognise as an alcoholic (ended up on the streets). However I know others still have a bad relationship with alcohol. To the point I think they should give up.

    In our house we went teetotal while my partner was pregnant. Didn't miss it after a month. Yes, I had a slightly bad relationship with alcohol since I'd go out and get drunk if I didn't need to drive. Now one glass of wine, one pint of beer / cider or one measure of spirits is my limit. I don't enjoy much more. I'm also a half pint drinker too. No shame in that.

    So IMHO this woman was an alcoholic. Harsh viewpoint but probably a good description. Perhaps we should support not criticise? But if course she needs to realise that it's not just a health problem because of her liver but because she's an alcoholic / addict and needs treatment for that.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 41,130
    There seems to be a disconnect between a middle class person having a 'few glasses of wine' every evening and alcohol abuse, it is just normalised. I think I've ranted about this in one of the other threads (trivially annoying maybe although it's obviously worse than that), the amount of people I hear either friends or people on television doing dry January who find it really difficult is alarming but none of them think they might have a drink problem if they can't get through the day without a few drinks to relax. As for claiming 'if someone had told me wine could damage my liver I'd have stopped' do they think it somehow differs from other alcoholic drinks in some way?
  • pinno
    pinno Posts: 51,564
    This thread seems to have gone off track with what's acceptable in terms of alcohol consumption but Slowmart's point is about palming/not accepting responsibility.

    It's a bit like the Pret-a-manger case. Whilst I have very sympathy with the parents (and any parent who looses a child), why oh why did a girl, highly sensitive to nuts eat something with no label?

    On top of this, the family of Natasha Ednan-Laperouse, are very well off and could afford extra precaution.
    I have a child with learning difficulties and many situations require a high degree of anticipation.
    We never subordinate her welfare to either other people (other than at school) or chance.
    She is our responsibility.

    If she were to cross the road, we have to be with her - regardless if anyone was speeding or not. If she was to attempt to imbibe some liquid/food stuff by her own volition or her complete lack of consequence, it isn't the fault of the Bleach/Flash/Autosol/Cat food* manufacturers.

    *Insert what you like.
    seanoconn - gruagach craic!
  • joe_totale-2
    joe_totale-2 Posts: 1,333
    Pross wrote:
    There seems to be a disconnect between a middle class person having a 'few glasses of wine' every evening and alcohol abuse, it is just normalised. I think I've ranted about this in one of the other threads (trivially annoying maybe although it's obviously worse than that), the amount of people I hear either friends or people on television doing dry January who find it really difficult is alarming but none of them think they might have a drink problem if they can't get through the day without a few drinks to relax. As for claiming 'if someone had told me wine could damage my liver I'd have stopped' do they think it somehow differs from other alcoholic drinks in some way?

    In exactly the same way as drugs, a lot of people seem to believe that you're only an addict if you're homeless and sleeping on a bench.

    I imagine that the number of functioning alcoholics/drug addicts in our society is staggering.
  • homers_double
    homers_double Posts: 8,073
    I know I drink too much, far too much.

    We got to a point where we were opening our third bottle of wine on a Tuesday evening and thought "hang on this is getting silly now".

    More money as you get older, stresses of work/life etc, there are various excuses and sometimes it's hard to say no to yourself.
    Advocate of disc brakes.
  • orraloon
    orraloon Posts: 12,805
    I know I drink too much, far too much.

    We got to a point where we were opening our third bottle of wine on a Tuesday evening and thought "hang on this is getting silly now".

    More money as you get older, stresses of work/life etc, there are various excuses and sometimes it's hard to say no to yourself.
    If only you had read a warning on the side of the bottle / box, eh?

    Saw that story this morning and immediate reaction was here is a pi55head unable and/or unwilling to control her consumption, takes a health hit, now plays the "'snot fair, I'm not to blame, poor me, I want comp-en-say-shun" tactic. Take some personal responsibility.
  • shirley_basso
    shirley_basso Posts: 6,195
    I suppose it depends on the personality type and lifestyle.

    Some people are far more predisposed to addiction or have a lifestyle which encourages/perpetuates bad habits than others.

    Mundane routine (i.e every day is the same) and general boredom are probably the worst and the former probably makes it even harder to spot.

    I would say that as alcoholism, mothers could be more at risk due to childcare commitments makes every evening quite routine and the days potentially quite boring, even though some professional roles involve heavy drinking (insurance etc).

    I do have sympathy for the lady, but some of the questions and blame she is pointing is a bit ridiculous. She is clearly an addict and refuses to admit it.
  • homers_double
    homers_double Posts: 8,073
    Indeed, but who reads those warnings anyway.

    I sort of have taken responsibility by managing it better - I saw an issue and addressed it. That's not to say the issue doesn't appear occasionally.
    Advocate of disc brakes.
  • john80
    john80 Posts: 2,965
    It is pretty interesting with dry January in that basically it is the easiest challenge in the world unless you have a problem with drink. On par with no carrots January really. I wonder when no cocaine, acid, speed, ecstasy January will come out as a thing because it is not an issue if you can stop for a month:)
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 27,934
    Slowbike wrote:
    rjsterry wrote:
    Slowbike wrote:
    bbc wrote:

    I enjoy a drink as much as the next person - Surely, it's really not difficult to stop after 1 or 2 and self limit to do that just occasionally or at the weekend at most?! Would anyone really read the label of the drink they're buying to see how many units they're drinking?

    If it were that simple there would be no AA.

    Recognising you're drinking too much doesn't need the knowledge of how many unit's you're drinking - only that you "need" the next drink...

    I think you should think about what effects alcohol has and why someone might feel that they need that crutch. From an external perspective it's very easy and not a little simplistic to say they should just address the underlying issue as if it were like changing their broadband provider.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • chris_bass
    chris_bass Posts: 4,913
    I used to drink quite a lot when i was younger, but it got to the point where i didn't like the type of drunk i was, i used to be a "fun and silly" drunk but it became a more depressive influence on me (perhaps exaggerating what was going on in my sober state i suppose looking back) so i stopped, haven't had any alcahol (sic) in over 8 years, the only downside is it is now assumed that i'll be driving :)

    i'm very much an all or nothing type of person though (see previous threads about just how mad i really am!!) so i'm not really someone who can do things in moderation and i had to stop myself before it became a bigger problem.

    having written that, i'm not too sure what my point is?

    yes, it should be personal responsibility, but i can see how things creep up and become a problem without the person knowing. Maybe if the dentist asked how much you drink each time you go for a check up and flagged to you if it is creeping up that might help? a six monthly alcahol check?
    www.conjunctivitis.com - a site for sore eyes
  • shirley_basso
    shirley_basso Posts: 6,195
    The easiest way to stop drinking is to not have booze in the house.

    New baby stopped me as the lack of sleep gave me a thick head in the morning.
  • thistle_
    thistle_ Posts: 7,184
    Chris Bass wrote:
    Maybe if the dentist asked how much you drink each time you go for a check up and flagged to you if it is creeping up that might help? a six monthly alcahol check?
    My GP asks me whenever I go, maybe he doesn't believe me when I say "none" :roll:
  • chris_bass
    chris_bass Posts: 4,913
    Chris Bass wrote:
    Maybe if the dentist asked how much you drink each time you go for a check up and flagged to you if it is creeping up that might help? a six monthly alcahol check?
    My GP asks me whenever I go, maybe he doesn't believe me when I say "none" :roll:

    people can go quite a long time without visiting their GP, i thought the dentist might work as it is a regular 6 month thing (for most people!) - if people feel the need to lie then maybe that tells them all they need to know!
    www.conjunctivitis.com - a site for sore eyes
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,408
    The easiest way to stop drinking is to not have booze in the house.

    New baby stopped me as the lack of sleep gave me a thick head in the morning.

    ...that (sans baby)


    I now very rarely drink at home, unless we're having a party, I only drink out. By its nature that puts a significant brake on how much you drink.

    That said I end up drinking too much diet Coke (or similar), which is also not great. I do struggle to believe it's worse though. It gets particularly annoying when friends tell me I need to drink less while waving a fag at me but...I digress :roll:
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • chris_bass
    chris_bass Posts: 4,913
    ddraver wrote:
    The easiest way to stop drinking is to not have booze in the house.

    New baby stopped me as the lack of sleep gave me a thick head in the morning.

    ...that (sans baby)


    I now very rarely drink at home, unless we're having a party, I only drink out. By its nature that puts a significant brake on how much you drink.

    That said I end up drinking too much diet Coke (or similar), which is also not great. I do struggle to believe it's worse though. It gets particularly annoying when friends tell me I need to drink less while waving a fag at me but...I digress :roll:

    if it makes you feel better if they are banging on about the sweeteners in it then they are some of the most studied food stuffs in existence and all the bad studies have long since been debunked. The ones that say it causes cancer were because they gave excessive human sized quantities to rats and the rats' stomachs couldn't handle it, humans stomachs can.

    i'm not saying it is good for you, and carbonated stuff is generally bad for teeth even without sugar, but diet drinks are not the worst thing out there!
    www.conjunctivitis.com - a site for sore eyes
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 26,039
    A couple of points on the subject.
    I do read the labels. I then wonder what happened to the recommended 28 units a week?
    An observation based on myself, and watching others. Alcohol is a multiplier. If you (genuinely) feel good, the you will feel better. If you are down for some reason, you will feel worse. Alcohol is not the solution to any problem.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • tangled_metal
    tangled_metal Posts: 4,021
    You are kidding about the artificial sweeteners. There's things other than cancer you know. I avoid them like your plague because they always trigger a migraine with me. I know others get the same. I bet there's other things they contribute to.

    IMHO it's a worrying thing that food companies are reducing sugar content to avoid anything like a sugar tax. However to keep sales up they still need to keep their food at the same level of sweetness by adding artificial sweeteners. Often the change isn't clearly identified. I've consumed a particular product for years only to find out they added artificial sweetener.

    Personally I think they should reduce the sugar and the level of sweetness. Wean the population off sweet things instead of just replacing sugar with artificiality. It does keep the addict buying their product though!
  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    rjsterry wrote:
    Slowbike wrote:
    rjsterry wrote:
    Slowbike wrote:
    bbc wrote:

    I enjoy a drink as much as the next person - Surely, it's really not difficult to stop after 1 or 2 and self limit to do that just occasionally or at the weekend at most?! Would anyone really read the label of the drink they're buying to see how many units they're drinking?

    If it were that simple there would be no AA.

    Recognising you're drinking too much doesn't need the knowledge of how many unit's you're drinking - only that you "need" the next drink...

    I think you should think about what effects alcohol has and why someone might feel that they need that crutch. From an external perspective it's very easy and not a little simplistic to say they should just address the underlying issue as if it were like changing their broadband provider.

    Oh - I don't think stopping is easy- certainly easier for some than others - but the first step is recognising it - the next is wanting to do something about it - that's where the difficulty can start.

    For an adult holding down a house and a home - recognising they drink "too much" should be fairly straight forward - and you shouldn't need labels on the side of your chosen bottle/case to tell you what is considered "too much"
  • chris_bass
    chris_bass Posts: 4,913
    i'm not saying they are good for you, just not as bad as some people claim. if you can't handle them then avoid them,plenty can without any adverse side affects.

    all kinds of "safe" things trigger migraines even citrus fruits.
    www.conjunctivitis.com - a site for sore eyes
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 73,217
    The easiest way to stop drinking is to not have booze in the house.

    New baby stopped me as the lack of sleep gave me a thick head in the morning.

    The only thing worse than dealing with a 2am baby wake up after a boozy night out is dealing with the baby at 5:30am after a boozy night out.
  • veronese68
    veronese68 Posts: 27,435
    The easiest way to stop drinking is to not have booze in the house.
    New baby stopped me as the lack of sleep gave me a thick head in the morning.
    The only thing worse than dealing with a 2am baby wake up after a boozy night out is dealing with the baby at 5:30am after a boozy night out.
    Pesky kids have no respect for a hangover, now the lad is 20 and likes a drink he's getting familiar with the phrase 'revenge is a dish best served cold' :twisted: :lol:
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 27,934
    Slowbike wrote:
    rjsterry wrote:
    Slowbike wrote:
    rjsterry wrote:
    Slowbike wrote:
    bbc wrote:

    I enjoy a drink as much as the next person - Surely, it's really not difficult to stop after 1 or 2 and self limit to do that just occasionally or at the weekend at most?! Would anyone really read the label of the drink they're buying to see how many units they're drinking?

    If it were that simple there would be no AA.

    Recognising you're drinking too much doesn't need the knowledge of how many unit's you're drinking - only that you "need" the next drink...

    I think you should think about what effects alcohol has and why someone might feel that they need that crutch. From an external perspective it's very easy and not a little simplistic to say they should just address the underlying issue as if it were like changing their broadband provider.

    Oh - I don't think stopping is easy- certainly easier for some than others - but the first step is recognising it - the next is wanting to do something about it - that's where the difficulty can start.

    For an adult holding down a house and a home - recognising they drink "too much" should be fairly straight forward - and you shouldn't need labels on the side of your chosen bottle/case to tell you what is considered "too much"

    One of our most famous prime ministers was by most measures a functional alcoholic and he led us through WW2. Holding down a home means nothing.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    rjsterry wrote:
    Slowbike wrote:
    rjsterry wrote:
    Slowbike wrote:
    rjsterry wrote:
    Slowbike wrote:
    bbc wrote:

    I enjoy a drink as much as the next person - Surely, it's really not difficult to stop after 1 or 2 and self limit to do that just occasionally or at the weekend at most?! Would anyone really read the label of the drink they're buying to see how many units they're drinking?

    If it were that simple there would be no AA.

    Recognising you're drinking too much doesn't need the knowledge of how many unit's you're drinking - only that you "need" the next drink...

    I think you should think about what effects alcohol has and why someone might feel that they need that crutch. From an external perspective it's very easy and not a little simplistic to say they should just address the underlying issue as if it were like changing their broadband provider.

    Oh - I don't think stopping is easy- certainly easier for some than others - but the first step is recognising it - the next is wanting to do something about it - that's where the difficulty can start.

    For an adult holding down a house and a home - recognising they drink "too much" should be fairly straight forward - and you shouldn't need labels on the side of your chosen bottle/case to tell you what is considered "too much"

    One of our most famous prime ministers was by most measures a functional alcoholic and he led us through WW2. Holding down a home means nothing.

    All it meant was that identifying issues should be (more) straight forward - not that it qualifies them to resolve the situation any more than anyone else.