Alcohol & Personal Responsibility

24

Comments

  • orraloon
    orraloon Posts: 12,675
    Anyway, as Freddie sang, "who wants to live forever?"
  • haydenm
    haydenm Posts: 2,997
    Not sure I can square this thread with my genuine love for drinking alcohol. I don't think I drink more than is safe but the thought of doing a month with no alcohol sounds totally dreadful.
  • robert88
    robert88 Posts: 2,696
    An in-law used to drink the red stuff a lot, at least a bottle an evening, but who knows? His wife had increasingly been an invalid for some years and eventually died after a long battle, so I guess it was what kept him going. After her death he stopped and lost a lot of weight then he was diagnosed with diabetes. Was a shadow of his former self when I last saw him a few years ago (he lives in Germany now).
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 8,736
    I've a lot of sympathy for the woman but perhaps not for her idea we should have health warnings on wine bottles. By all means have some more public education campaigns about safe (or safeish) levels of alcohol consumption but personally I don't want to see a picture of a diseased liver on my wine or a cancer of the throat on a bottle of single malt. Still I do understand that perhaps it's easy to deliberately ignore the amount you are drinking and it might be less easy if it were rammed down our throats more often.

    I enjoy a drink and at times I have made a conscious effort to cut down - for me that normally means I'm only going to drink at weekends - so either going out or if I'm staying in I'll buy what I'm going to drink on a Friday with the shopping and when it's gone it's gone - typically maybe a bottle of wine and 4 bottles of beer or cider. I've done dry January but I'll make an exception for a night out - I just stop drinking at home. There are times I've thought "I needed that" - maybe after a long bike ride on a hot day or a particularly long day at work - so long as those times are relatively few I don't actually consider that a problem - on balance I think alcohol has added to my life but obviously not everyone is lucky enough to be able to say that.
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • joe_totale-2
    joe_totale-2 Posts: 1,333
    HaydenM wrote:
    Not sure I can square this thread with my genuine love for drinking alcohol. I don't think I drink more than is safe but the thought of doing a month with no alcohol sounds totally dreadful.

    Alcohol is so interwoven with socialising in this country that to some people, not to drink for a month means not going out at all. The fact is that if you got out with friends and aren't drinking, everyone suddenly gets suspicious!
  • chris_bass
    chris_bass Posts: 4,913
    Joe Totale wrote:
    HaydenM wrote:
    Not sure I can square this thread with my genuine love for drinking alcohol. I don't think I drink more than is safe but the thought of doing a month with no alcohol sounds totally dreadful.

    Alcohol is so interwoven with socialising in this country that to some people, not to drink for a month means not going out at all. The fact is that if you got out with friends and aren't drinking, everyone suddenly gets suspicious!

    I can't remember who said it but i think it was a comedian, they said the UK is a place where you tell someone you don't drink and they'll immediately think "must be an alcoholic" while knocking back far too much booze
    www.conjunctivitis.com - a site for sore eyes
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 58,480
    Slowbike wrote:
    Oh - I don't think stopping is easy- certainly easier for some than others - but the first step is recognising it - the next is wanting to do something about it - that's where the difficulty can start.

    For an adult holding down a house and a home - recognising they drink "too much" should be fairly straight forward - and you shouldn't need labels on the side of your chosen bottle/case to tell you what is considered "too much"
    Yep.

    I've always considered it common knowledge/ common sense about what's too much, even if I often haven't followed the guidelines.

    For people trying to cut down, making sure you have a pattern of 'days off' when you don't have anything is a damn sight easier than anything like 'dry January'. How many you have is up to you...
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • shirley_basso
    shirley_basso Posts: 6,195
    The problem is that as above - it is so ingrained in our culture you can slip into it, easy peasy.

    The issue with addiction is denial - and I don't mean lying to your friends. I mean convincing yourself. Fairly easy to do, and then a very slippery slope from there on.
  • pinno
    pinno Posts: 51,330
    "I don't drink any more and I don't drink any less"
    seanoconn - gruagach craic!
  • tangled_metal
    tangled_metal Posts: 4,021
    Chris Bass wrote:
    i'm not saying they are good for you, just not as bad as some people claim. if you can't handle them then avoid them,plenty can without any adverse side affects.

    all kinds of "safe" things trigger migraines even citrus fruits.
    The issue is not as simple as that. With the drive to reduce sugars many food producers didn't want to lose market share by reducing the addition of sugars because that makes their food less appealing to customers. They straight replaced some sugars with artificial sweeteners. No warning, recipe change. Anyone actually read every ingredients label as they shop so they can be certain nothing has been changed? Me neither. I only find out about the sweetener change to artificial ones by getting a migraine and realising it's a certain food that's been reformulated.

    But the real issue IMHO is how we've become addicted to increasingly higher levels of sweetness in foods. Once producers increased salt and sugar content as a cheap way to make it more tasty. We've had our foods steadily made sweeter. Now salt and sugars are bad so lazy reformulation is to keep it as sweet by replacing sugar with artificial sweeteners.

    A good example was baked beans. Supermarket brands became less tasty a few years back with salt and sugar reduction. Personally I didn't like it but got used to it and now quite like the bander taste. If only they did that with everything by not putting in artificial sweeteners.

    It's kind of appropriate that artificial sweeteners is in an addiction thread because we are addicted to sweetness in our foods. Not at bad as centuries ago when there was a real sugar rush going on but it's still an addiction.
  • joe_totale-2
    joe_totale-2 Posts: 1,333
    Shirley Basso wrote:
    The problem is that as above - it is so ingrained in our culture you can slip into it, easy peasy.

    The issue with addiction is denial - and I don't mean lying to your friends. I mean convincing yourself. Fairly easy to do, and then a very slippery slope from there on.

    Yep, this lady in the original post is a classic example of denial. She convinced herself (sounds like with support from her husband as well) that having 4 glasses of wine a night was perfectly normal and what plenty of people did. It's all well and good saying she should have more insight but her addiction meant that what she perceived to be rational is very different to what you or I would.

    Having a warning on the label would do sod all as she'd be like "Oh, I'm just doing what everyone else does in the evening. I'm not an alcoholic, they're those smelly old men who sleep on benches".
  • surfercyclist
    surfercyclist Posts: 894
    Hmm the old alcohol question. Well I don't get drunk but I know I fairly regularly exceed the 14 units a week limit. I don't drink every day and I always ensure if I've had several glasses of the old vino collapso one evening I'll abstain for a few days. Trouble is I really enjoy a glass or two or three of wine. It doesn't affect my fitness (cycling, surfing etc) but of course the issue is the hidden damage that could be being done to liver and other organs. The program last night on Panorama didn't really tell me anything I didn't know. Even if alcohol got really expensive I'd still drink as I'm in the fortunate position of being pretty well off financially. I know how many units I should drink a week and how many are in a pint of beer or bottle of wine so labelling on bottles and cans isn't a big thing for me(a lot was made of it in program).

    One thing though I couldn't give up and that's tea and coffee. Now if health warning were suddenly issued on those I'd be in BIG trouble.
  • tangled_metal
    tangled_metal Posts: 4,021
    That reminds me, what is the recommended maximum weekly alcohol intake per week for men and for women based on units?

    How much wine at a typical 12.5% alcohol content by weight equates to one unit?

    What is the typical size of a small wine glass in a bar, pub or restaurant?

    If people get these right without googling the answers I'll be very apprised.
  • Ben6899
    Ben6899 Posts: 9,686
    Tangled Metal wrote:
    That reminds me, what is the recommended maximum weekly alcohol intake per week for men and for women based on units?

    How much wine at a typical 12.5% alcohol content by weight equates to one unit?

    What is the typical size of a small wine glass in a bar, pub or restaurant?

    If people get these right without googling the answers I'll be very apprised.

    I haven't Googled. Let's see.

    Man: 21. Woman: 14.
    1 unit from 125ml
    Small wine: 125ml
    Ben

    Bikes: Donhou DSS4 Custom | Condor Italia RC | Gios Megalite | Dolan Preffisio | Giant Bowery '76
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  • tangled_metal
    tangled_metal Posts: 4,021
    Wrong, wrong and right on small wine glass size.
  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    Tangled Metal wrote:
    That reminds me, what is the recommended maximum weekly alcohol intake per week for men and for women based on units?

    How much wine at a typical 12.5% alcohol content by weight equates to one unit?

    What is the typical size of a small wine glass in a bar, pub or restaurant?

    If people get these right without googling the answers I'll be very apprised.

    Does it matter what the recommended maximum weekly intake is?

    It's like knowing the speed limit then driving at it, regardless of whats going on around you - it's a limit, for a reason - it's not "the safe speed to travel regardless"
  • Ben6899
    Ben6899 Posts: 9,686
    Tangled Metal wrote:
    Wrong, wrong and right on small wine glass size.

    What are the units? And how much wine gives one unit?

    I'm curious to know if my errors leave me more p1ssed or less p1ssed. :D
    Ben

    Bikes: Donhou DSS4 Custom | Condor Italia RC | Gios Megalite | Dolan Preffisio | Giant Bowery '76
    Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ben_h_ppcc/
    Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/143173475@N05/
  • tangled_metal
    tangled_metal Posts: 4,021
    Ben6899 wrote:
    Tangled Metal wrote:
    Wrong, wrong and right on small wine glass size.

    What are the units? And how much wine gives one unit?

    I'm curious to know if my errors leave me more p1ssed or less p1ssed. :D
    PMed you with the answers. I'm curious s to whether anyone does know this. I'll post answers shortly.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,612
    Thought they changed it to a max of a pint a day, which is roughly 14.
    _
  • tangled_metal
    tangled_metal Posts: 4,021
    Slowbike wrote:
    Tangled Metal wrote:
    That reminds me, what is the recommended maximum weekly alcohol intake per week for men and for women based on units?

    How much wine at a typical 12.5% alcohol content by weight equates to one unit?

    What is the typical size of a small wine glass in a bar, pub or restaurant?

    If people get these right without googling the answers I'll be very apprised.

    Does it matter what the recommended maximum weekly intake is?

    It's like knowing the speed limit then driving at it, regardless of whats going on around you - it's a limit, for a reason - it's not "the safe speed to travel regardless"
    What matters is a healthy relationship with alcohol. These are guidelines only. IMHO keeping below them and spreading consumption across the week up to that limit rather than binging it all away too. Having said that if you don't know the limits for safe consumption you really can't keep it to safe levels. It's a public health matter to get this information out. One that the authorities really have failed to do.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 25,750
    Tangled Metal wrote:
    That reminds me, what is the recommended maximum weekly alcohol intake per week for men and for women based on units?

    How much wine at a typical 12.5% alcohol content by weight equates to one unit?

    What is the typical size of a small wine glass in a bar, pub or restaurant?

    If people get these right without googling the answers I'll be very apprised.
    14 & 14. Used to be 28 for men, then 21.
    Genuinely thought it was 125ml. Sure it was at one point. Now curious.
    Small, 125ml, medium 175ml, large 250ml.

    I am sure the objective is to get alcohol viewed the same as tobacco.

    Side issue. If everyone gives up smoking, drinking and the IC engine will the country be able to function financially?
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • hopkinb
    hopkinb Posts: 7,129
    Tangled Metal wrote:
    Ben6899 wrote:
    Tangled Metal wrote:
    Wrong, wrong and right on small wine glass size.

    What are the units? And how much wine gives one unit?

    I'm curious to know if my errors leave me more p1ssed or less p1ssed. :D
    PMed you with the answers. I'm curious s to whether anyone does know this. I'll post answers shortly.

    A UK unit is 10ml of pure alcohol.

    500ml of 5% beer/lager is therefore 2.5 units.

    125ml of 15% wine is closer to 2 units than 1 unit. 125ml of 12% wine is 1.5 units.

    Binge drinking is defined as drinking more than 5 units in one session. So 2 cans of premium lager in one go makes you a binge drinker.

    14 units per week is the recommended maximum to minimise health risks associated with drinking alcohol for both men and women, though studies have also shown that any amount of alcohol is harmful.
  • hamish_mctavish
    hamish_mctavish Posts: 142
    Ben6899 wrote:
    Tangled Metal wrote:
    Wrong, wrong and right on small wine glass size.

    What are the units? And how much wine gives one unit?

    I'm curious to know if my errors leave me more p1ssed or less p1ssed. :D

    A unit is 1cl (10ml) of pure alcohol so a litre of 40% gin contains 40 units. A 125ml glass of 12.5% wine is 1.6 units.
  • tangled_metal
    tangled_metal Posts: 4,021
    80ml of wine at 12.5%abv apparently. A 250ml wine glass drunk 4.5 times in one night would put you over the weekly limit recommended for health reasons.

    14 units per week for both men and women. Changed about 3 years ago. That I didn't know.

    I also wonder what the spread of those 14 units should be. Afterall one night out can easily reach that limit but isn't that classed as binge drinking which is also bad for your health?

    My personal intake is one unit of wine a week based on typical abv figures for a decent red wine. A tiny glass really. If it's beer or cider I'm probably on just over one (half a bottle shared with someone). Put simply I drink one evening a week and only as a meal accompaniment. Except if there's a special occasion then I might be on one pint of beer (probably 3 to 4 units) then softdrinks.

    I sound boring but I'm not. I can be as daft or fun as I used to be when I drank too much alcohol. Like ouzo or raki I'm an acquired taste though!

    I'm really not sure why I reduced my alcohol intake. I stopped with my partner when she was pregnant and never really started again afterwards. I guess I found life without alcohol above safe limits is better.
  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    Tangled Metal wrote:
    Having said that if you don't know the limits for safe consumption you really can't keep it to safe levels.
    1 beer in an evening with food every now and then .... is pretty safe. Any less than that and they'd have to ban the sale of beer ...
    Tangled Metal wrote:
    It's a public health matter to get this information out. One that the authorities really have failed to do.
    yup, I don't disagree, but the responsibility for safe consumption still resides with the individual.
  • tangled_metal
    tangled_metal Posts: 4,021
    Slowbike wrote:
    Tangled Metal wrote:
    It's a public health matter to get this information out. One that the authorities really have failed to do.
    yup, I don't disagree, but the responsibility for safe consumption still resides with the individual.
    Of course! We all have personal responsibility. I'd never argue against that for capable adults.

    One beer a night? What abv? Very easy to drink above 14 units with good beer.
  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    Tangled Metal wrote:
    Slowbike wrote:
    Tangled Metal wrote:
    It's a public health matter to get this information out. One that the authorities really have failed to do.
    yup, I don't disagree, but the responsibility for safe consumption still resides with the individual.
    Of course! We all have personal responsibility. I'd never argue against that for capable adults.

    One beer a night? What abv? Very easy to drink above 14 units with good beer.

    One beer in a night - sometimes - ie not every night and not regularly ... but then I know I don't have an issue with it.

    I've just had a look (https://www.drinkaware.co.uk/understand ... calculator) - because I _used_ to drink 3 pints on a club night out - every week (over the off season) - and even that is below the recommended limit, although as it's in one go it's not recommended ... interesting that they equate it to nearly 2 burgers and 55 mins running - it used to take me ~20mins to get to the pub and same back - so that's most of it burnt off then ;)


    Wow - I'm blummin virtuous aren't I :lol: - it's not that really - it's just I never really "took" to drink ... it's fine in a social occasion, but I don't like to go beyond the point where I know what I'm doing - if I want to "forget my day" then I'd go and do sport. And these days it's easier - I don't want to be "drunk" with a young child in the house - and my tolerance levels have dropped ...
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 8,736
    hopkinb wrote:
    [.

    Binge drinking is defined as drinking more than 5 units in one session. So 2 cans of premium lager in one go makes you a binge drinker.

    l.

    Premium or high strength? 2 standard cans of 5% lager is still less than 5 units - if we are talking Special Brew then your point stands.

    3 pints of beer (say at 2 units a pint) a night is supposed to knock 1-2 years off your life expectancy - as an average of course. Up to around 14 units makes barely any difference - what's that a bottle of wine and 2 cans - so you can drink a reasonable amount - then have the odd big night now again so long as you can keep it to those levels for most alcohol is a positive.
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • shirley_basso
    shirley_basso Posts: 6,195
    I'm sure the social benefits of one pint or two per day, assuming shared with friends, far outweigh the health risks in a moderately healthy adult.

    Aside from the baby, I have also majorly cut back on booze as I can't really cycle much (work too close to home) and it would make me so damn fat.
  • tangled_metal
    tangled_metal Posts: 4,021
    Slowbike wrote:
    Tangled Metal wrote:
    Slowbike wrote:
    Tangled Metal wrote:
    It's a public health matter to get this information out. One that the authorities really have failed to do.
    yup, I don't disagree, but the responsibility for safe consumption still resides with the individual.
    Of course! We all have personal responsibility. I'd never argue against that for capable adults.

    One beer a night? What abv? Very easy to drink above 14 units with good beer.

    One beer in a night - sometimes - ie not every night and not regularly ... but then I know I don't have an issue with it.

    I've just had a look (https://www.drinkaware.co.uk/understand ... calculator) - because I _used_ to drink 3 pints on a club night out - every week (over the off season) - and even that is below the recommended limit, although as it's in one go it's not recommended ... interesting that they equate it to nearly 2 burgers and 55 mins running - it used to take me ~20mins to get to the pub and same back - so that's most of it burnt off then ;)


    Wow - I'm blummin virtuous aren't I :lol: - it's not that really - it's just I never really "took" to drink ... it's fine in a social occasion, but I don't like to go beyond the point where I know what I'm doing - if I want to "forget my day" then I'd go and do sport. And these days it's easier - I don't want to be "drunk" with a young child in the house - and my tolerance levels have dropped ...
    We're probably on the same page with alcohol. Young child and low alcohol intake.

    Mind you I've been a right pi$$head this week, two glasses of wine over 3 days! Not drank that much for several months. I need a detox!

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