Rate the Giro

13

Comments

  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,119
    mididoctors wrote:
    KingstonGraham wrote:
    Too much rain. Italy must sort this out.
    I thought the rain was supposed to be a plus point

    Not for me - I like to see the scenery.
  • phreak
    phreak Posts: 2,953
    KingstonGraham wrote:
    mididoctors wrote:
    KingstonGraham wrote:
    Too much rain. Italy must sort this out.
    I thought the rain was supposed to be a plus point

    Not for me - I like to see the scenery.

    When there was no scenery on the Mortirolo though, it made for some beautiful shots. Alas, the Mortirolo was the only climb on the entire route with any real Giro pedigree (possibly the Manghen). No Stelvio, no Grappa, no Bondone, no Giau, no Fedaia, no Pordoi, no Erbe, no Sella, no Etna, no Oropa, no Montecampione, no Zoncolan. What's more, it wasn't like they weren't in those regions, but they seemed to devise a route that took a flat route around the climbs. Just rather dull.
  • knedlicky
    knedlicky Posts: 3,097
    phreak wrote:
    Alas, the Mortirolo was the only climb on the entire route with any real Giro pedigree (possibly the Manghen). No Stelvio, no Grappa, no Bondone, no Giau, no Fedaia, no Pordoi, no Erbe, no Sella, no Etna, no Oropa, no Montecampione, no Zoncolan.
    You missed out Blockhaus/Passo Lanciano!
    And if when defining pedigree you include tradition, as well as the Mortirolo, there was one other notable pass there, the Rolle – I'd say it has pedigree because it was the first ever Dolomite pass to be used in the Giro.
    One of your ideas wouldn't have been feasible this year – the Stelvio is still closed (the Timmelsjoch/Passo del Rombo too).
  • knedlicky
    knedlicky Posts: 3,097
    I liked that there were more breakaway stages than normal (and was pleased for their winners). This in part seems to have been an intention of the route organisers, while also delaying the GC battle (and so suited me - I'm not one who likes to see a GC tussle emerging early on in a GT). Overall, Ciccone was the man of the Giro for me – from stage 1 on, he had a goal which he constantly pursued and finally achieved, even managing a stage win (when he was so exultant).

    I find it odd that some people, when deciding their rating, consider a particular rider's absence, a favourite's lack of form, or the TV commentaries. And when they say the opening 1-2 weeks, 10-14 days, were boring, they are thus including the good Masnada/Bilbao wins and stage 4 when Carapaz (significantly, it later turned out) retrieved 28 secs on Nibali.

    I wonder what people will think of the opening Giro week next year, if one idea being touted becomes reality – an opening virtual time trial using the Zwift App!
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,908
    knedlicky wrote:

    I wonder what people will think of the opening Giro week next year, if one idea being touted becomes reality – an opening virtual time trial using the Zwift App!
    Please tell me that there is absolutely no validity to that?
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    mididoctors wrote:
    knedlicky wrote:

    I wonder what people will think of the opening Giro week next year, if one idea being touted becomes reality – an opening virtual time trial using the Zwift App!
    Please tell me that there is absolutely no validity to that?

    I would legit not watch the Giro at all if they did that.

    What is the point.

    Better off watching an Adriana Grande video at that point.
    _
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,119
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    mididoctors wrote:
    knedlicky wrote:

    I wonder what people will think of the opening Giro week next year, if one idea being touted becomes reality – an opening virtual time trial using the Zwift App!
    Please tell me that there is absolutely no validity to that?

    I would legit not watch the Giro at all if they did that.

    What is the point.

    Better off watching an Adriana Grande video at that point.

    Yes, if they want Zwift, make them do a 200km hilly road stage on Zwift.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    No.
    _
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,119
    They wouldn't do it again.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,119
    mididoctors wrote:
    knedlicky wrote:

    I wonder what people will think of the opening Giro week next year, if one idea being touted becomes reality – an opening virtual time trial using the Zwift App!
    Please tell me that there is absolutely no validity to that?

    In my experience, there'd be one guy doing the whole thing at 100mph. Probably from Astana.
  • dish_dash
    dish_dash Posts: 5,647
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    mididoctors wrote:
    knedlicky wrote:

    I wonder what people will think of the opening Giro week next year, if one idea being touted becomes reality – an opening virtual time trial using the Zwift App!
    Please tell me that there is absolutely no validity to that?

    I would legit not watch the Giro at all if they did that.

    What is the point.

    Better off watching an Adriana Grande video at that point.

    This one, right? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXiSVQZLje8
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,908
    "l am very, very, very much against that,” said American Chad Haga
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • philbar72
    philbar72 Posts: 2,229
    absolutely no to zwift. reminds me of watching a mate playing a crap dull video game. but with a monster sweat on.

    nooooooooo.
  • ridgerider
    ridgerider Posts: 2,852
    Hold on a minute...do it all on Zwift!

    No bad weather to worry about, or as much bad weather as you want, with no bad weather protocol to worry about.
    No brake disc injuries
    As much on-bike footage as you can eat (p.s. didn't see any from Velon this year...)
    City centre stages, but with ghosted road furniture to avoid injuries

    What is there not to like?
    Half man, Half bike
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    philbar72 wrote:
    absolutely no to zwift. reminds me of watching a mate playing a crap dull video game. but with a monster sweat on.

    nooooooooo.

    Never have grown men sweated so much playing computer games since the original Tomb Raider...
    _
  • hanshotfirst
    hanshotfirst Posts: 400
    Ridgerider wrote:
    Hold on a minute...do it all on Zwift!

    No bad weather to worry about, or as much bad weather as you want, with no bad weather protocol to worry about.
    No brake disc injuries
    As much on-bike footage as you can eat (p.s. didn't see any from Velon this year...)
    City centre stages, but with ghosted road furniture to avoid injuries

    What is there not to like?

    Plus if they get the riders to all go at the same time then it'd all be wrapped up in about an hour leaving us to get on with our day and get on down the pub.
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,695
    Put it like this, If it was a good stage I listened to The Move podcast to hear about the tactical details from Johan...

    If not then I only listened to the Cycling Podcast to hear about pasta and that...

    Let's say that Lance didn't get a lot of listens from me...
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,119
    hanshotfirst wrote:
    Ridgerider wrote:
    Hold on a minute...do it all on Zwift!

    No bad weather to worry about, or as much bad weather as you want, with no bad weather protocol to worry about.
    No brake disc injuries
    As much on-bike footage as you can eat (p.s. didn't see any from Velon this year...)
    City centre stages, but with ghosted road furniture to avoid injuries

    What is there not to like?

    Plus if they get the riders to all go at the same time then it'd all be wrapped up in about an hour leaving us to get on with our day and get on down the pub.

    Not if they have 200km stages on there. Someone would get dropped at the start and try desperately to get back on before having 5 hours of solo riding.
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,435
    I don't really care about having a short Zwift prologue, it's only there to seed the riders and hand out a leaders jersey anyway. I would be worried that it was a slippery slope towards having more of that stuff though.
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,725
    Just back from Sicily.
    I'll give it a 10.............................................the thread, that it; some excellent analogy and comments.
    As for the the race, I gave it a 3, just for being an all Italy edition. The racing was almost exclusively of the done and immediately forgotten calibre.
    I haven't watched it yet, but I have a feeling that Eurosport did everybody a favour, by not showing the whole of stage 20.
    Rai did, but where I was, I didn't see any evidence of interest in the race.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,908
    bobmcstuff wrote:
    I don't really care about having a short Zwift prologue, it's only there to seed the riders and hand out a leaders jersey anyway. I would be worried that it was a slippery slope towards having more of that stuff though.
    It's well past slippery when it's part of the race in any part what so ever. ....

    Stick GPS on riders and let the public race them or somefink. Not the other way round.
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,119
    There's no way any team would be tempted to calibrate their power meters to give a false reading is there? I mean, this is cycling we're talking about. Whiter than white.
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,435
    KingstonGraham wrote:
    There's no way any team would be tempted to calibrate their power meters to give a false reading is there? I mean, this is cycling we're talking about. Whiter than white.
    It would be done in a controlled environment, so it would be a bit harder to do that. It's not like online where you can just enter a false weight and fly off...

    The race or the trainer sponsor for the race (e.g., Wahoo or whoever) could provide the turbo trainers and for the race use the trainers' internal powermeter.

    This would probably an absolute requirement anyway, because different types of PMs read slightly differently even if accurately calibrated (i.e., hub, crank and pedal meters could give 1% or so different readings because there's small losses through the system, or single-sided PMs work by doubling up etc.). In the context of an individual rider tracking their performance over time these differences are largely irrelevant provided the rider uses the same PM all the time (i.e., it doesn't really matter much if your PM underreads by even a huge margin so long as it always underreads by the same %).

    However in the context of a big race like the Giro it would be important that all riders where using exactly the same type, because these guys are all competing within pretty close margins already.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,119
    bobmcstuff wrote:
    KingstonGraham wrote:
    There's no way any team would be tempted to calibrate their power meters to give a false reading is there? I mean, this is cycling we're talking about. Whiter than white.
    It would be done in a controlled environment, so it would be a bit harder to do that. It's not like online where you can just enter a false weight and fly off...

    The race or the trainer sponsor for the race (e.g., Wahoo or whoever) could provide the turbo trainers and for the race use the trainers' internal powermeter.

    This would probably an absolute requirement anyway, because different types of PMs read slightly differently even if accurately calibrated (i.e., hub, crank and pedal meters could give 1% or so different readings because there's small losses through the system, or single-sided PMs work by doubling up etc.). In the context of an individual rider tracking their performance over time these differences are largely irrelevant provided the rider uses the same PM all the time (i.e., it doesn't really matter much if your PM underreads by even a huge margin so long as it always underreads by the same %).

    However in the context of a big race like the Giro it would be important that all riders where using exactly the same type, because these guys are all competing within pretty close margins already.

    And that's why it's not going to happen. Each team is sponsored by a PM maker.
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,435
    KingstonGraham wrote:
    bobmcstuff wrote:
    KingstonGraham wrote:
    There's no way any team would be tempted to calibrate their power meters to give a false reading is there? I mean, this is cycling we're talking about. Whiter than white.
    It would be done in a controlled environment, so it would be a bit harder to do that. It's not like online where you can just enter a false weight and fly off...

    The race or the trainer sponsor for the race (e.g., Wahoo or whoever) could provide the turbo trainers and for the race use the trainers' internal powermeter.

    This would probably an absolute requirement anyway, because different types of PMs read slightly differently even if accurately calibrated (i.e., hub, crank and pedal meters could give 1% or so different readings because there's small losses through the system, or single-sided PMs work by doubling up etc.). In the context of an individual rider tracking their performance over time these differences are largely irrelevant provided the rider uses the same PM all the time (i.e., it doesn't really matter much if your PM underreads by even a huge margin so long as it always underreads by the same %).

    However in the context of a big race like the Giro it would be important that all riders where using exactly the same type, because these guys are all competing within pretty close margins already.

    And that's why it's not going to happen. Each team is sponsored by a PM maker.

    And they will also have a turbo trainer sponsor, who might not want to see the team competing on a different type.

    For the race to work they would have to insist that everyone was on the same type of Wahoo Kickr (for the sake of argument), provided and calibrated by the manufacturer. That doesn't mean they can't have their own PMs installed as normal for their own recording purposes.

    I am not sure that is insurmountable - but you're right that it might make it a bit harder.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    A day or too before that US Masters golf tournament, they have a fun par competition. Some take it seriously, some mess about - but they all play. There may be a prize, I don't know. It's not part of the main tournament but it draws a big crowd.

    Maybe the GTs could do something like that. Get Zwift to put up a prize fund. Let pros ride it as they like, maybe offer a selection of courses. Run it as part of the team presentations.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,119
    RichN95 wrote:
    A day or too before that US Masters golf tournament, they have a fun par competition. Some take it seriously, some mess about - but they all play. There may be a prize, I don't know. It's not part of the main tournament but it draws a big crowd.

    Maybe the GTs could do something like that. Get Zwift to put up a prize fund. Let pros ride it as they like, maybe offer a selection of courses. Run it as part of the team presentations.

    Didn't they do something like that this year over the opening TT course?
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    KingstonGraham wrote:
    RichN95 wrote:
    A day or too before that US Masters golf tournament, they have a fun par competition. Some take it seriously, some mess about - but they all play. There may be a prize, I don't know. It's not part of the main tournament but it draws a big crowd.

    Maybe the GTs could do something like that. Get Zwift to put up a prize fund. Let pros ride it as they like, maybe offer a selection of courses. Run it as part of the team presentations.

    Didn't they do something like that this year over the opening TT course?
    I think Zwift made the Prologue course available and TV showed it alongside the real thing, but I don't remember any pro Zwifting it themselves. Maybe I missed it.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,435
    Another thing is I would find it at least a bit interesting to have all the riders do what would be essentially an official weigh-in followed by an FTP test at the start. People spend enough time guesstimating riders' power on climbs, so there would presumably be some other people interested in that too. You'd get a lot of information about who was on form etc. and you could see what their actual w/kg was. Although some of the GC riders would probably deliberately undercook it, you probably don't want to be giving away accurate figures like that at the start of a grand tour.

    I do agree with all the comments about it being dull to watch and not really a race etc., so I have the same kinds of problems with having it be an actual part of the Giro race.
  • 6wheels
    6wheels Posts: 411
    Is it possible to fall off a Zwift, if you're going too fast?

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